what Law did Jesus replace?

[nChrist]

You're welcome to your opinion. Clearly we don't hold the same views. Seeing that I'm clear on my position and you're clear on yours I don't see any point in arguing with you about it. Sorry, but it won't benefit either one of us.

God Bless

I think that pretty much sums it up for me also. The Pharisees and Sadducees of today still want to live under the Law and foolishly seek their own righteousness.

As for me:

Galatians 2:21 KJV I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 8:1-2 (KJV) 1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

2 Corinthians 9:15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

 

[ozell]

No, but He fulfilled them. That means more than He just picks up the slack when we fail to uphold them. Jesus Christ is more than a buffer between our unrighteousness and the wrath of God. He was, as Romans 3:25 declares, a propitiation for our sins. In other words He paid the penalty in our place.

How did Jesus fulfill the 10 commandments when people are still breaking the commandments?

Are you saying since Jesus fulfilled the commandments it is alright to sin?

Read this along with your statement

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

what about the one's you commit after you accept Jesus?

So if Jesus Christ did not fulfill the commandments why would God send Him into the world to be a propitiation? What would the point be?

to give you a chance at eternal life with him.

what drives man away from Jesus?

Jer 5:25 Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you.

Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

we read where sin separates man from God. Man is still sinning.

so what must bring man back to God? Jesus blood which is grace.

what if man continue to sin? is he still under the grace or blood of Jesus?

Jesus fulfilled his part and that not all complete, he has to come a second time correct?

In Galatians 1 Paul rebukes that body of believers when he writes -What was the gospel that they accepted? That by God's grace, through faith ALONE (in Christ Jesus) they would become children of The Almighty God.

what is grace?
what works did grace replace?

But since I don't believe that any scripture is an island unto itself I'll continue with more passages to support my point and tie up some lose ends.

The grace of God and the law (referring to the commandments) have nothing to do with one another. They are diametrically opposed to one another. They are enemies. That's why Romans 8:2 says -

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

what is the law of sin and death? It is certainly not the commandments

Paul said

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Now you need to find another law.

In a sense you are correct. His death and resurrection did not replace the commandments. His death and resurrection destroyed them utterly

this don't make any sense

let me ask you 2 questions

Is satan destroyed?

is satan walking the earth?

then the commandments are still valid today and not destroyed as you say.

lets read


Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8: But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9: For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10: And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11: For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12: Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

 

[ozell]

Ozell, you continue to use the question "what law did Jesus replace?" when such and such happened as a rheorical device . and i focus on fulfillment of what you're talking about , its a kingdom for children . so in my eyes simplicity is key .

the amusing part is . in God's eyes we're talking about the same tree . but if you don't get the root correct . you find yourself as part of a different tree .

as i feel there is no need (to continue) to discuss (this matter) with (what resembles) a previous version of my consciousness, the things that i know differently now . i will thank you (all) for the conversation .

it has been fulfilling to say the least

as this is your thread i hope you find fulfillment as well Ozell .

-Michael

carry on Brother!!

 

[ozell]

Jesus replaced no law he only completed it. The 10 commandments is the law. It comes from the first 5 books of the Bible. The Torah.

The law condemns you. Jesus comes to save you from that condemnation. I am always around if you would like to talk.

what if you obey like Abraham did can you be condemned?

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

because abraham kept these laws was he condemned?

 

[ozell]

You're welcome to your opinion. Clearly we don't hold the same views. Seeing that I'm clear on my position and you're clear on yours I don't see any point in arguing with you about it. Sorry, but it won't benefit either one of us.

God Bless

there is no position or changing of minds

Jesus said

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Paul said after Jesus death and resurrection

Rom 13v 7: Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10: Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11: And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

all what Paul said can be found in the 10 commandments in Exodus 20

Jesus said in the last book in the bible

Rv 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

these to can be found in the book of Exodus

chinging of minds and holding positions is between the person and God

read what the bible says for understanding!

 

[ozell]

the law that we are not under is the law of animal sacrifce.

Notice no one kills animals for the remission of sins.

I wonder why?

 

[ozell]

when a man sinned before Jesus came what work did he have to perform to get the sin remmitted?

 

[NatalieJan777]

There is no law, aside from the two great commandments, left to obey. Yes, we fulfill the law by love and yes by love we accomplish what the law set out to show us we can't do.

And how do you Love the Lord Your GOD with all your heart, mind and soul?

Obedience to HIS WORD? Or disobedience, by ignoring that HIS WORD existed before HE dwelt with us?

 

[stelow]

Galatians 3:17-29
17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[NatalieJan777]

24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

What brings us unto Christ? How can those who ignore the law be taught by the schoolmaster (ie the law). You cannot dwell in Christ and have true faith in him with out acknowledgement and obedience to the law. Repentance from our evil, is what brings us unto Christ. Once our faith is complete we are then justified by Christ.

 

[stelow]

I pretty much agree with Matthew Henry's account of the verses.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on Galatians 3:23-25,
The law did not teach a living, saving knowledge; but, by its rites and ceremonies, especially by its sacrifices, it pointed to Christ, that they might be justified by faith. And thus it was, as the word properly signifies, a servant, to lead to Christ, as children are led to school by servants who have the care of them, that they might be more fully taught by Him the true way of justification and salvation, which is only by faith in Christ. And the vastly greater advantage of the gospel state is shown, under which we enjoy a clearer discovery of Divine grace and mercy than the Jews of old. Most men continue shut up as in a dark dungeon, in love with their sins, being blinded and lulled asleep by Satan, through wordly pleasures, interests, and pursuits. But the awakened sinner discovers his dreadful condition. Then he feels that the mercy and grace of God form his only hope. And the terrors of the law are often used by the convincing Spirit, to show the sinner his need of Christ, to bring him to rely on his sufferings and merits, that he may be justified by faith. Then the law, by the teaching of the Holy Spirit, becomes his loved rule of duty, and his standard for daily self-examination. In this use of it he learns to depend more simply on the Saviour.

 

[jwest]

I have no problem with anyone who lives or doesn't live by the law, but the truth is that Jesus said He did not come to change that law. He also said that not one jot will pass until Heaven and earth pass. I suppose most people will admit that neither Heaven or Earth has passed. That would mean that not one part of the law has passed away, ie, been done away with. Jesus did not have ba problem with any Jew living by the law. His complaint was obeying the law out of fear of being punished, rather than obeying the law out of love for God. He offered Christians a chance for salvation based on love and faith rather than fear of punishment. Being bound by the law is a lot like wearing seat belts. There were a lot of people who wore them before the law made it mandatory. Some people wear them out of fear of being punished. Other wear them out of faith that they save lives. Both sides have to obey the laws. One is bound by the law,the other is free from the law just as it was before the law was passed.

 

[jwest]

I have no problem with anyone who lives or doesn't live by the law, but the truth is that Jesus said He did not come to change that law. He also said that not one jot will pass until Heaven and earth pass. I suppose most people will admit that neither Heaven or Earth has passed. That would mean that not one part of the law has passed away, ie, been done away with. Jesus did not have ba problem with any Jew living by the law. His complaint was obeying the law out of fear of being punished, rather than obeying the law out of love for God. He offered Christians a chance for salvation based on love and faith rather than fear of punishment. Being bound by the law is a lot like wearing seat belts. There were a lot of people who wore them before the law made it mandatory. Some people wear them out of fear of being punished. Other wear them out of faith that they save lives. Both sides have to obey the laws. One is bound by the law,the other is free from the law just as it was before the law was passed.

 

[ozell]

Galatians 3:17-29
17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

A law was in place.
A law was ADDED for tansgression.
until the seed came.

19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

what laws was in place?
what law was added?
what seed came?

21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

there is a law that can give life

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Mt 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17: And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18: He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19:Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[NatalieJan777]

I pretty much agree with Matthew Henry's account of the verses.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on Galatians 3:23-25,
The law did not teach a living, saving knowledge; but, by its rites and ceremonies, especially by its sacrifices, it pointed to Christ, that they might be justified by faith. And thus it was, as the word properly signifies, a servant, to lead to Christ, as children are led to school by servants who have the care of them, that they might be more fully taught by Him the true way of justification and salvation, which is only by faith in Christ. And the vastly greater advantage of the gospel state is shown, under which we enjoy a clearer discovery of Divine grace and mercy than the Jews of old. Most men continue shut up as in a dark dungeon, in love with their sins, being blinded and lulled asleep by Satan, through wordly pleasures, interests, and pursuits. But the awakened sinner discovers his dreadful condition. Then he feels that the mercy and grace of God form his only hope. And the terrors of the law are often used by the convincing Spirit, to show the sinner his need of Christ, to bring him to rely on his sufferings and merits, that he may be justified by faith. Then the law, by the teaching of the Holy Spirit, becomes his loved rule of duty, and his standard for daily self-examination. In this use of it he learns to depend more simply on the Saviour.

stelow,

For the most part I love Matthew Henry's commentaries as well and believe much of what he has written accept where the Holy Spirit tells me different. You see, we all come to Christ initially the same way in realizing our dreadful condition and knowing our only hope for salvation lies in the Lamb of GOD. And as he writes the teaching of the Holy Spirit is the law for us to self examine ourselves and the the law becomes our loved rule of duty and our standard for living.

There is a misconception in our day that the Holy Spirit is somehow teaching us something different then the law and this is a falicy. It is a lie because the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all one in Spirit and in Truth, one will never disagree with the other they all are in total union.

Your sister in Christ Jesus,

Nat

 

[ozell]

Jesus preached

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

and if you love him and keep his commandments did he not say that we will pray to the Father to send you another comforter

lets read

16: And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

who is this comforter we will receive if we love Jesus and keep his commandments?

17: Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jesus called this another comforter the spirit of truth?

am I wrong in my assessment?

 

[ozell]

19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

what law was being served?

what law was added?

what law was added until Jesus came?

Notice it says LAW not LAWS.

 

[ozell]

did Jesus replace the dietary laws?

Long after Jesus death and resurrection Peter said

11: And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13: And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14: But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15: And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

 

[ozell]

when Jesus return look at whom his vengeance is focused on

Isa 66v15: For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

 

[ozell]

Mt 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mk 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Lk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

WHY?

Lev 16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

3: Thus shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a young bullock for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering.

Lev 16:15 Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:

Lev 4v1: And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2: Speak unto the children of Israel, saying,If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

3: If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.

4: And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD.
5: And the priest that is anointed shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:

6: And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the vail of the sanctuary.

17: And the priest shall dip his finger in some of the blood, and sprinkle it seven times before the LORD, even before the vail.

when Jesus died the veil of the temple rent ending animal sacrifice and the Levites priesthood