what Law did Jesus replace?

[Gregory Thompson]

Oh the warning you give to ozell that if one continues to judge the way you have accused ozell of judging, so then that God will judge you the exact same way, would equally apply to yourself.

yes . been there . done that .

it was a friendly warning .

 

[gideon army]

WRONG AGAIN Gideon

Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jn 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

whatever comes out of the Lord mouth is a covenant.

do you understand this?

its is a law
it is fact
it is truth
it is final

quote]

Ozell Christ Beloved ,

When you quote Matthew 4:4, did you not read Matthew 4:3? In which the Devil tried testing Jesus to get Him to turn Stones into Bread right?

Doesn't that says a great deal? Revealation for you, the Devil asking Christ to find His Norishment in the 10 Commandments which were engrave with the finger of GOD in Stones

How on earth i make this 'assumption' & on whose Authority?

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."

Paul was setting the standard in Typology which Christ spoke off in :-

Matthew 13:52 Then He said to them, "Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure [things] new and old."


Romans 4:3 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world [was] not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:14 For if those who are of the law [are] heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect,

If what you say for ppl to take you seriously that whatever the Word of GOD says are:-

its is a law
it is fact
it is truth
it is final

Then are you/your church/ pastors practicing this?

Matthew 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast [it] from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Matthew 18:8 "If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast [it] from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.

Matthew 18: 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast [it] from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

If you're like the Scribes & Pharisees who advocate Law to the point of LOWERING in to the level you're comfortable with then assume cutting off your boidly parts isn't an option (or is it? maybe you have-do share please which parts you;ve cut off ) then maybe this works less painfull for you?
or is it?

Luke 18:22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

Btw, do you not know each Gospel has it's own Targeted audience? Gospel of Matthew was written specifically to the Jews who were very anti-Christ, oh believe you're skilled & worth your own salt to have known this small Insignificant detail

 

[ozell]

Then are you/your church/ pastors practicing this?

Matthew 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast [it] from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Matthew 18:8 "If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast [it] from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.

Matthew 18: 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast [it] from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

stop sinning is what the Lord is saying here.


Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[ozell]

God forgives my sins . it is an every day reality . and i am in Him . your questions come from a faulty premise . so i have nothing left to expound upon than what i have already said .

but regarding the metaphor of the unjust servant if you continue to judge the way you are judging God will judge you the exact same way . i know it . been there done that .

James 2:13
because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

whose judging?

 

[ozell]

Heb 10

what law?

1: For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

animal sacrifice can't make a person perfect

2: For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

once they sacrifced animal and had the sin purged they did have conscience of sin because they came back with more bulls and goats.

3: But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

in the temple behind the veil

4: For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin.

 

[ozell]

Gideon and Micheal


Mt 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mk 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Lk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

3 witnesses
1 event

when the veil of the temple rent what stopped?

 

[ozell]

yes . been there . done that .

it was a friendly warning .

why is it that when someone comes on board and speak of keeping God's commandments they last resort of those you don't keep God's commandments accuse those who do of Judging?

Mike do you know what Judging is?

do you know what a judge do?

what do you put me in God's stead?

I'm not God!!!!

what law did Jesus replaced Michael?

answer the question correctly and then you will have no need to answer again.

answer the question wrong then the conversation may continue.

are you a thief
do you steal
are you a liar
have you killed
do you worship other God's
do you keep the sabbath

am I judging you?

now onc you finish answering these questions

answer the topic question

what law did Jesus replace?

 

[ozell]

in order for man to get into New Jerusalem it is written

Rv 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

not in the kingdom are these abominations

15: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

who has judged these people so that they cannot get into the kingdom here?

this is beyond us

whosoever told any of you that the commandments has been replaced LIED.

Jesus death and resurrection DID NOT replace the commandments.

 

[bsd31]

Jesus death and resurrection DID NOT replace the commandments.

No, but He fulfilled them. That means more than He just picks up the slack when we fail to uphold them. Jesus Christ is more than a buffer between our unrighteousness and the wrath of God. He was, as Romans 3:25 declares, a propitiation for our sins. In other words He paid the penalty in our place.

So if Jesus Christ did not fulfill the commandments why would God send Him into the world to be a propitiation? What would the point be?

In Galatians 1 Paul rebukes that body of believers when he writes -

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! - Galatians 1:6-9

What was the gospel that they accepted? That by God's grace, through faith ALONE (in Christ Jesus) they would become children of The Almighty God.

But since I don't believe that any scripture is an island unto itself I'll continue with more passages to support my point and tie up some lose ends.

We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

"But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!

"For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.

"For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me

"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." - Galatians 2:15-21

The grace of God and the law (referring to the commandments) have nothing to do with one another. They are diametrically opposed to one another. They are enemies. That's why Romans 8:2 says -

because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

In a sense you are correct. His death and resurrection did not replace the commandments. His death and resurrection destroyed them utterly.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

No, but He fulfilled them. That means more than He just picks up the slack when we fail to uphold them.

How do you see the meaning of fulfill? Because the same bible tells us that if we have love we will fulfill the law. Fulfill means to accomplish or bring into fullness. Jesus fulfilling the law means that he brought it to full understanding showing how the law goes beyond just the mere words but even in thoughts one can violate the law.

So if Jesus Christ did not fulfill the commandments why would God send Him into the world to be a propitiation? What would the point be?

These things are not linked. The plan of Salvation was made from the beginning. Before the cross the blood of bulls and goats atoned for sin representing his blood. I don't see the link between Jesus fulfilling the law and him being a propitiation for our sins. Unless you are speaking of the law of ceremonies and ordinances in which case he blotted out by his death on the cross.

The grace of God and the law (referring to the commandments) have nothing to do with one another. They are diametrically opposed to one another. They are enemies. That's why Romans 8:2 says -

You need to read chapter 7 properly. Paul clearly shows that the law of sin and death is different to the law of God.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Follow it correctly. Paul wants to keep the law of God in his mind but the law of sin is warring against him. When he yields to that law of sin, death is the result. When you are made delivered from the law of sin and death you are free to serve the law of God.

In a sense you are correct. His death and resurrection did not replace the commandments. His death and resurrection destroyed them utterly.

The bible says exactly the opposite. You are saying that not only did he come to fulfill but he also destroyed.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

What is the significance of the word 'but'. That shows contrast. Fulfill must then be opposite to destroy. To destroy is to tear down something. So to fulfill must be to build it up. To Fill Full. To boost it up. That is what Jesus did to the law.

 

[bsd31]

How do you see the meaning of fulfill? Because the same bible tells us that if we have love we will fulfill the law. Fulfill means to accomplish or bring into fullness. Jesus fulfilling the law means that he brought it to full understanding showing how the law goes beyond just the mere words but even in thoughts one can violate the law.

There is no law, aside from the two great commandments, left to obey. Yes, we fulfill the law by love and yes by love we accomplish what the law set out to show us we can't do.

Jesus fulfilling the law means He did it in our place. That's the whole point of Christ. We, you, myself, everyone else in the world CAN NOT EVER fulfill the law. None of us can EVER obey it. It is impossible. Not just hard, not merely something we need to work at but it is entirely impossible to obey the law. Even the law of love, of which there are only two, is impossible to obey. Anyone aside from Christ Jesus who claims to obey the law is a liar and such a claim proves they do not obey the law of sin and death.

You are correct in saying that "even in thought one can violate the law". You would be even more correct to say "even in our thoughts we constantly violate the law"

These things are not linked. The plan of Salvation was made from the beginning. Before the cross the blood of bulls and goats atoned for sin representing his blood. I don't see the link between Jesus fulfilling the law and him being a propitiation for our sins. Unless you are speaking of the law of ceremonies and ordinances in which case he blotted out by his death on the cross.

Ok... so God blotted out the easy (sacrificing animals and following ceremonial rules) but He left the impossible in place (the law)? Does that even make sense? There's absolutely no logic to that reasoning. What you've just claimed is that Christ was slaughtered by the Father on the cross for the sole purpose of making null and void our need to follow rituals.

I'll agree that the plan of salvation has been from the beginning. That's not even up for discussion. How can you not see the connection between Christ fulfilling the law and being a propitiation?

propitiate: to gain or regain the favor or goodwill of : appease

By fulfilling the law He regained the favor and goodwill of God for all who would believe. That's the link. If He had no been an atoning sacrifice we would still be under the law (commandments, ceremonial)

You need to read chapter 7 properly. Paul clearly shows that the law of sin and death is different to the law of God.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Actually what it's showing is that as much as Paul wants to do good works through his own strength it is impossible. He even writes and tells readers that he is a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. (Romans 7:23) He then asks who will rescue him-

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? - Romans 7:24

He doesn't ask "who HAS rescued me?", but he asks "who WILL rescue me?" which clearly indicates that Paul is still a prisoner in his own body to sin. Which of course means he does not keep the law. Because if he kept the law he would not be a prisoner to "this body of death"

Follow it correctly. Paul wants to keep the law of God in his mind but the law of sin is warring against him. When he yields to that law of sin, death is the result. When you are made delivered from the law of sin and death you are free to serve the law of God.

Yes Paul wants to keep the law of God and yes the law of sin is warring against him. Again you are correct in saying that yielding to the law of sin results in death and that's exactly why Christ died as the final sacrifice. Because God knows that no man born of human parents can EVER keep from yielding to sin. No matter what we might desire to do in our mind, no matter how much we might wish we could do good works to please God and keep all of his commandments (the law) it will never happen.

The bible says exactly the opposite. You are saying that not only did he come to fulfill but he also destroyed.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

What is the significance of the word 'but'. That shows contrast. Fulfill must then be opposite to destroy. To destroy is to tear down something. So to fulfill must be to build it up. To Fill Full. To boost it up. That is what Jesus did to the law.

Jesus did indeed boost up the law, but NOT the law of sin and death. The law of love. The law of sin and death He abolished BUT... only for those who do not falsely claim to obey it. In other words faith saves, but anyone who says they keep the law then that person is expected to obey the very letter of the law to the utmost. That's why He said

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. - Matthew 5:18

What He's telling us is that if we wish to be under the law that's fine, but we are then expected to obey EVERYTHING 100% of the time (the smallest letter, the least stroke of a pen). Or we can choose grace.

 

[help_the_lord]

Matthew 5:17-18 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete.18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done.”
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 8:21 “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Elohim and doing it.”[/FONT]

Romans 3:31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brothers – for I speak to those knowing the Torah – that the Torah rules over a man as long as he lives? [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 3:10b “...Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all that has been written in the book of the Torah, to do them.” [/FONT]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]WE CAN'T KEEP THE LAW” (?)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If that's true then Yahweh is a liar![/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 27:26 ‘Cursed is he who does not establish the Words of this Torah.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amĕn!’ (Gal 3:10)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:3 “For this is the love for Elohim, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 28:1-2 “And it shall be, if you diligently obey the voice of YHWH your Elohim, to guard to do all His commands which I command you today, that YHWH your Elohim shall set you high above all nations of the earth. 2 “And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of YHWH your Elohim.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ALL YAHWEH'S BLESSINGS AND PROMISES ARE WORTHLESS IF WE CAN'T KEEP HIS TORAH![/FONT]
Ephesians 5:26 “...in order to set it apart and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yahushua is the Word of the Torah because He IS the Torah![/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]NOT UNDER THE LAW?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:14 “For sin shall not rule over you, for you are not under the law but under favour...”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]WHAT LAW ARE WE NOT UNDER?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:2 “For the Torah of the Spirit of the life in Messiah Yahushua has set me free from the law of sin and of death.”[/FONT]

the added underlines and commentary are coutesy of www.2besaved.com/2BSLaw.html

 

[bsd31]

@help_the_lord,

Could you clean that up a bit and expound on what you believe the different passages are saying? Cut and paste is convenient, but it causes something to be lost in the process.

 

[help_the_lord]

its kind of funny because I have been called to Yaweh and he has asked me to help break people of this mistaken ideas and false truths, anyways i came to a set of conclusions based on the holy spirit aiding in my understanding of the bible.. the other day i was on a youtube video about rubix cubes and in one of the comments this website was there www.2besaved.com I don't believe in coincidences anymore so I figured it was worth checking out, when i went to it I found it to say exactly what i've already concluded, thus it can be assumed i stumbled upon my exact understanding on purpose so that i could more easily explain them to people.. so ya you can sum up what i've already come to understand on a variety of topics by using that resource.. with specific regards to the law the link i gave does a very good job of illustrating it www.2besaved.com/2BSLaw.html

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Ozell, you continue to use the question "what law did Jesus replace?" when such and such happened as a rheorical device . and i focus on fulfillment of what you're talking about , its a kingdom for children . so in my eyes simplicity is key .

the amusing part is . in God's eyes we're talking about the same tree . but if you don't get the root correct . you find yourself as part of a different tree .

as i feel there is no need (to continue) to discuss (this matter) with (what resembles) a previous version of my consciousness, the things that i know differently now . i will thank you (all) for the conversation .

it has been fulfilling to say the least

as this is your thread i hope you find fulfillment as well Ozell .

-Michael

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Jesus replaced no law he only completed it. The 10 commandments is the law. It comes from the first 5 books of the Bible. The Torah.

The law condemns you. Jesus comes to save you from that condemnation. I am always around if you would like to talk.

 

[help_the_lord]

yep by completing it he changed it from follow all laws within the torah and if you don't you must make a blood sacrafice (of a specific nature, based on the offense) or be killed (if the offense was one declared worthy of such a penalty) to follow the laws of the Torah, now however you can be forgiven by the father without blood sacrafice.. and you are no longer to be killed imediately for certain offenses.. so therefore he replaced the "law of sin and death" just as paul stated so elequantly

 

[PROPHECYKID]

yep by completing it he changed it from follow all laws within the torah and if you don't you must make a blood sacrafice (of a specific nature, based on the offense) or be killed (if the offense was one declared worthy of such a penalty) to follow the laws of the Torah, now however you can be forgiven by the father without blood sacrafice.. and you are no longer to be killed imediately for certain offenses.. so therefore he replaced the "law of sin and death" just as paul stated so elequantly

Well said.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

There is no law, aside from the two great commandments, left to obey. Yes, we fulfill the law by love and yes by love we accomplish what the law set out to show us we can't do.

The two great commandments are a summary of the 10. On these hang the law and the prophets. What has the law set out to show us we can't do? Remember God was the one who made the law.

Jesus fulfilling the law means He did it in our place. That's the whole point of Christ. We, you, myself, everyone else in the world CAN NOT EVER fulfill the law. None of us can EVER obey it. It is impossible. Not just hard, not merely something we need to work at but it is entirely impossible to obey the law.

This is the sad thing. Statements like these just make the work of the Holy Spirit of no effect. The Holy Spirit is to lead us into all truth. You are advocating that even one who is guided by the spirit can never keep the law. Is that what you are really saying?

Even the law of love, of which there are only two, is impossible to obey. Anyone aside from Christ Jesus who claims to obey the law is a liar and such a claim proves they do not obey the law of sin and death.

Again you are confusing the law of sin and death. Can you please just take into consideration what Paul said. The law of of sin wars against the law of God in his mind. The law of sin and death which is the law of sin is different to the law of God. They are opposites.

You are correct in saying that "even in thought one can violate the law". You would be even more correct to say "even in our thoughts we constantly violate the law"

Welcome to the provision of grace.

Ok... so God blotted out the easy (sacrificing animals and following ceremonial rules) but He left the impossible in place (the law)? Does that even make sense? There's absolutely no logic to that reasoning. What you've just claimed is that Christ was slaughtered by the Father on the cross for the sole purpose of making null and void our need to follow rituals.

I never said that was the sole purpose. But it was a main purpose. He blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that were against us.

I'll agree that the plan of salvation has been from the beginning. That's not even up for discussion. How can you not see the connection between Christ fulfilling the law and being a propitiation?

He is the propitiation now. Before his death the propitiation was the blood of bulls and goats. He is our high priest now. Before his death the earthy high priest was our high priest. That whole system pointed to him. He blotted it out and he is the reality. That is the connection I see. Jesus fulfills the law not for us to trample it. He himself says if you love me keep my commandments. The love of God is to keep his commandments and they are not grievous.

Jesus did indeed boost up the law, but NOT the law of sin and death. The law of love. The law of sin and death He abolished BUT... only for those who do not falsely claim to obey it. In other words faith saves, but anyone who says they keep the law then that person is expected to obey the very letter of the law to the utmost. That's why He said

]

Jesus never abolished the law of sin and death. Where do you see that in the bible? What do you see the law of sin and death to be? If Jesus did abolish the law of sin and death then why is it warring against Paul. Something that is abolished should no longer have effect.

What He's telling us is that if we wish to be under the law that's fine, but we are then expected to obey EVERYTHING 100% of the time (the smallest letter, the least stroke of a pen). Or we can choose grace.

So when I choose grace i am free to disobey? Or when i choose grace i no longer keep the law but i would just still do it/

 

[bsd31]

/snip...

You're welcome to your opinion. Clearly we don't hold the same views. Seeing that I'm clear on my position and you're clear on yours I don't see any point in arguing with you about it. Sorry, but it won't benefit either one of us.

God Bless