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What is your Statement of Faith?

Discussion in 'Fundamentalist Christians' started by Bible Highlighter, Aug 18, 2015.

  1. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you believe more than that. Even new agers believe in Jesus.
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    My Statement of Faith:
    (Continued)

    21. Alcohol (Part 1)

    There are 4 major views on Alcohol:

    #1. Prohibitionist

    Believes that the bible absolutely prohibits the consumption of strong alcoholic beverages socially; And it is a sin to drink such beverages (except for medical reasons). Note: This would not be wine diluted with water back in Biblical times.

    #2. Abstentionist:

    Believes that the bible does not absolutely prohibit the consumption of alcohol but for numerous reasons, Christians should abstain from using it. In this view, any amount of drinking that causes one to not be sober in any way directly contradicts those passages that tell us to be sober minded. Also, this view holds that drinking should be done in private and not publicly where your brother could see you and stumble. This view recommends that while it is lawful for you to drink, it is not always profitable so it is highly encouraged to abstain from it. Not out of some sense of legalism but out of love for God, yourself and your brother. Thus, it preaches the reality of the dangers of alcohol and how it can bite you like a serpent (despite it being lawful).

    #3. Undecided

    Those that are not sure if drinking alcohol is right or wrong.

    #4. Moderationist

    Believes that alcoholic drinks are a gift from God that should be, like all of God’s gifts, consumed moderately. However, the problem with this view is that many of the Moderationists do not warn against the dangers of alcohol. They only paint half the picture that alcohol is good and they get overly defensive in their consumption of alcohol when encouraged to walk the higher road out of love and not as a commandment or legal law within God's Word. Many or most Moderationists believe they can even drink in front of others publicly because Jesus turned water into alcoholic wine publicly. Thus, many of them believe that public drinking could not lead a brother to potentially to stumble (When clearly such a reality could happen).

    However, that said, I also believe there is a small number of responsible drinking moderationists who drink in a way to stay sober minded and who believe the proper thing to do is to preach against drunkenness strongly. These Moderationists do not want to do anything to make their brother to stumble. They drink knowing that the beverage they have in their hands is potentially dangerous but yet they drink soberly to the glory of God in private. However, in good conscience, it is my duty as a Christian to remind even these Christians that it can bite like a serpent if they start to forget the dangers of this deadly drug. In fact, it is my encouragement that they walk the higher road and show that they are different from the rest of the world. Again, not out of legalism, but out of love.

    My Viewpoint:

    I am a Prohibitionist in regards to strong alcoholic beverages of today. But I believe there was a wine that was watered down that the Israelites were allowed to drink.


    The Old Testament saints were forbidden to even look at a strong alcoholic beverage let alone drink it.

    21 WARNINGS
    That Speak Against The Alcoholic Beverage Itself.
    (That is not specifically or exclusively talking about drunkenness)

    Passages For the Old Testament Saint:

    (Before the Cross: The OT Saint did not have a liberty in Christ to drink intoxicating beverages)
    (Just as they did not have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)​

    1) Deuteronomy 29:5-6
    - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
    (The reason for this action was taken so as to show how they knew God).

    2) Deuteronomy 32:33
    - Enemy's wine is like the poison of serpents vs. Israelite's pure blood of the grape (verse 14).

    3) 1 Samuel 1:14-15
    - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

    4) Proverbs 4:17
    - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

    5) Proverbs 20:1
    - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

    6) Proverbs 23:31
    - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.

    7) Proverbs 23:32
    - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

    8) Proverbs 23:35
    - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning.
    (It also says Alcohol is habit forming).

    9) Proverbs 31:4-5
    - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.

    10) Ecclesiastes 2:3
    - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not.
    (c.f. Ecclesiastes 12:8)

    11) Ecclesiastes 10:17
    - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.

    12) Isaiah 5:22
    - There is a woe unto them who mix strong drinks.

    13) Jeremiah 35:2-14
    - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.

    14) Daniel 1:5-17
    - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

    15) Hosea 4:11
    - Intoxicating wine seduces the heart.


    Passages For the New Testament Saint:

    (After the Cross: NT Saints (Not All) have a liberty in Christ to drink alcohol soberly & privately)
    (Just as they have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)
    (Those whose conscience condemns them in drinking are not to drink)
    (Those who are leaders in the church are not to drink alcohol)​


    16) Romans 14:21
    - Do not do anything (Including drinking intoxicating beverages) to make your brother to stumble.

    17) 1 Timothy 3:2-3
    - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.

    18) 1 Timothy 3:8
    - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

    19) 1 Timothy 3:11
    - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.

    20) Titus 1:7-8
    - A bishop is not to be given to wine.

    21) Titus 2:2-3
    - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.


    Source Used:
    75 Bible References on Drinking Alcohol
    (Please take note that I only agree with the Scripture that they posted; This does not mean I am in agreement with the author's other beliefs on other topics).
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    My Statement of Faith:
    (Continued)

    21. Alcohol (Part 2):

    Jesus's Miracle at the Wedding of Cana.

    Yeah, but what about Jesus making wine at the Wedding of Cana? Well, this was unfermented wine (juice immediately from the cluster of the grape - See Isaiah 65:8) and not fermented (alcoholic or intoxicating wine). In fact, here are 6 points in Scripture that make it absolutely clear that Jesus did not make intoxicating wine.​

    #1. Jesus's Pure Blood is likened to the Pure Wine (or unfermented wine) that He made.
    Jesus's blood washes away our sins. Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Jesus says He is the bread of life and that we are to eat of his flesh and blood. Jesus is life. However, alcohol is not a product of life but it is a picture or symbol of death because it is a by-product of death and not life.

    How is alcohol made by way of a natural fermentation? Well, there is a powder like substance on the grape that is called the "must" (Which is a yeast). Once the grapes are smashed, this powder like substance or the yeast interacts with the sugars inside the cluster of the grape. The yeast (Which is a micro organism) then eats the sugars of the grape and poops out alcohol. In other words, picture a lion eating it's prey. The waste extract from the lion (i.e. the lion's poop) is what you are drinking. So this whole process is a by-product of death and not life.

    This is why Christ made pure grape juice straight from the vine (or the fruit of the vine as He said at the Last Supper). A juice that is a direct flow of the life that comes from the grape itself. For Jesus's miracle was a pure juice and it was worthy of reflecting his glory in Him being the perfect, sinless Son of God. The Wine was a picture or symbol of His sinless blood. His blood was that of the pure blood of the grape.

    "Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."
    (Deuteronomy 32:14).

    The pure blood of the grape is a substance that was not alcoholic.
    And Jesus's blood is a parallel of this. For Jesus's blood is not something that intoxicates people and brings death to people's lives every like alcohol does. But Jesus's blood represents life and light and goodness. It represents salvation and how it cleanse us from our sins.

    #2. Woe unto him that gives his neighbor strong drink.
    "Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also," (Habakkuk 2:15). If Jesus gave strong drink to his fellow neighbors here, he would be under the woe of Habakkuk 2:15. This would not be a blessing for Jesus but it would be a curse if he were to disobey this part of Scripture.

    #3. Jesus is a King (And wine is not for kings).
    Jesus is a king and Jesus would not have ignored his own sage advise or wisdom within His Word that says "it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink" (Proverbs 31:4 KJV); And the very Scriptures themselves are a testimony of Jesus: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39 KJV). So if this verse is true, I want you explain how Proverbs 31:4 is a testimony of Jesus Christ.

    #4. Warnings against Alcohol.
    Wine is a mocker (Proverbs 20:1). Strong drink is raging (Proverbs 20:1). Whoever is deceived by it is not wise (Proverbs 20:1). Wine bites like a serpent and stings like an adder (Proverbs 23:32). Do not look upon wine when it is red in the cup and when it moves itself aright (Proverbs 23:31). You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink: that you might know that I am the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 29:6). Who has woe? who has sorrow? who has contentions? who has babbling? who has wounds without cause? who has redness of eyes? (Proverbs 23:29). They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. (Proverbs 23:30).

    #5. If Jesus did get people drunk (It would be a sin) & They would no longer be Sober.
    Jesus could not have made alcoholic wine because John chapter 2 says, that the people at the wedding were "well drunk" (John 2:10 KJV). This means that they had already had drank a good amount of wine already and would have been either tipsy or close to being tipsy (at the very least). Jesus creating more good wine (i.e. good wine supposedly meaning that it was stronger in alcoholic content) would have contributed to the intoxication of those at the wedding party. This means that if they were not sober before, Jesus creating even more stronger alcoholic wine would have definitely made them at least tipsy or with having a mind that was not sober. This is a direct violation of Scripture that commands Christians to be sober (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV). So were they sober at the wedding or not? Also, Paul even warns that drunknenness is the type of sin that will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God, too (Galatians 5:21).

    #6. Christ set a good example by His miracle.
    The public creation of alcoholic wine would also contradict Romans chapter 14 that tells us that you are not to do anything to make your brother to stumble. For verse 21 says, "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak" (Romans 14:21 KJV). For a public wedding of drinking and the writing down of that event is like a giant billboard sign declaring to Christians who have struggled with alcoholism and have put it away could then think that it is okay to drink again (when their conscience condemns it and or because they are horribly addicted to it). This would be the same thing as a Christian drinking in front of an alcoholic (knowing they are an alcoholic); For if a Christian were to do so, they could make this alcoholic stumble back into alcoholism again. Which would be evil. For Romans 14 says, "Let not then your good be evil spoken of" (Romans 14:16 KJV). Jesus knows there are alcoholics who would read John chapter 2. Such a stamp of approval on alcohol could easily send them back into alcoholism. This would be evil.


    ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  4. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Waw, Jason, sorry but you seem to be interpreting scripture to suit your needs again!!
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Well, you have to realize that I see your view on the topic of alcohol in the same way. However, I do not see you explaining the verses I brought forth; Nor have I seen Scripture to defend your side of the issue. Anyways, this is merely a Statement of my Faith type thread. If you want to debate the issue, you can do so at the following link (of which I have already made some excellent points in Scripture already):

    http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-wedding-at-cana-wine-or-grape-juice.7843514/


    ....
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  6. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    You for got #5: The Party Animal LOL
     
  7. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    As I told you, as a teenager I constantly received prayer for the baptism in the holy spirit but to no avail. When i was 15 I would smoke a cigarette after the church service. The looks I got from some of the parishiners made me believe I would go to hell for smoking alone, let alone my other imperfections. When i was 19 and learned of grace I was baptised in the holy spirit, but due to my negative past there was always a niggling doubt as to whether I could truly have received the gift though I spoke in tongues
    A year later I went to a church service where an internationally known evangelist was preaching, she was a Pentecostal. After the service a few of us went into a side room for prayer. The woman told me much about my life though she had never met me before and she confirmed I prayed in tongues. And yet, at that time i still smoked. I learnt something that day. God does not lay the demands on you some of his children often do
    I do not say this to excuse smoking. People should not smoke for the sake of their health, but to make a good point
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    21. Alcohol: (Continued):

    A. The Three Types of Wine in the Bible:

    Among the saints and various cultures, wine in Biblical Times was Mixed with Water.

    This would be one of the three types of wine mentioned in the Bible.

    #1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content)
    (Proverbs 20:1) (Proverbs 23:31) (1 Timothy 3:1-3).

    #2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content)
    (Proverbs 9:2) (1 Timothy 5:23).

    #3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage)
    (Genesis 40:11) (Isaiah 65:8) (Deuteronomy 32:14) (Matthew 26:29).​

    I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

    Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses:

    Revelation 14:10 says,
    “The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb” (Contrast this with Psalms 75:8)

    1 Timothy 5:23 says,
    "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

    Proverbs 9:2 (NIV) says,
    "She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine; she has also set her table."

    Proverbs 23:31 - Do not look at wine when it is red.

    John 19:34 - Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood (See Matthew 26:27-29). The water is representative of the Scriptures (See Ephesians 5:26). We are told to abide in Christ and abide in His words (See John 15:7).

    Isaiah 1:22 CJB
    “Your silver is no longer pure, your wine is watered down.”​

    Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

    How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry

    If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to drink it more safely like an Israelite.

    So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine to the Israelite.

    Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

    Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

    2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.​

    B. The Nature of Alcohol:

    Alcoholic wine is a product of decay and death. God creates things that are full of life and things that are good. If you were to take alcohol and put it in a cup and then put some dirty coins in there, the alcohol would clean the coins. If you were to put a small piece of fruit or meat in the alcohol, it would dry it out. The alcohol has no understanding of being outside your body or inside your body. Soon as it enters the body, it does the same thing. It seeks to dry out things and to destroy your living tissue. But it is a good thing we have an immune system that can fight back so as to survive. In other words, alcohol is a very minor poison that your body can counter effects of whereby you will not die. But the abuse of this poison can easily kill you because of its harmful effects.​
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    http://bible-truth.org/Smoking.html

    ...
     
  10. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    What is the point of this thread may i ask?
     
  11. Upper Cut

    Upper Cut Member

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    The Creed of Nicea
     
  12. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    We're supposed to be sharing our statement of faith and what it means to us with each other. For some Christians, it's what listed on the back of their church bulletins each week or posted up on their church's website. Some have to get thoughtful and make up their own. For a few clueless ones it's "Wha? A statement of what?" But for the majority of us it's simply the Nicene Creed. I'm a lucky one. :)
     
  13. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A statement of faith is what you believe.

    Not a long dissertation of everything.
     
  14. DawnStar

    DawnStar Pragmatist

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    Looks like someone adheres to a Statement of Extra Biblical Laws instead of a Statement of Faith.
     
  15. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    If you don't quote from the post you are referring to, no one knows what you are mysteriously referring to.
     
  16. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually the title of this thread asks a question

    'What is your statement of faith?'

    If as you indicated this was a post about you, then you have mislead others into reading it by posing a question for THEM to answer.

    Slippery.
     
  17. Job8

    Job8 Senior Member

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    Possibly to show differences among various churches.
     
  18. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Maybe. Doesn't seem much into input from others, so he wants his views out there. Better place for that is the blog.
     
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