What is your stance on Churches inviting and praying with LGBT?

[Whyayeman]

I've realised, since posting, that the sign could be interpreted as inviting people to continue to sin! Obviously it isn't! I think that touches on the issue of why the subject is debated. All are sinners and should be invited to hear the gospel, but when people accept the faith they should turn away from sinful lifestyles, whatever those lifestyles may be. I'm sure that is what the sign was aiming to do. One problem with churches displaying the Pride flag is that it could be interpreted as condoning sin instead of inviting sinners to hear the message of repentance.

I think the intention was clear enough.

 

[ozso]

This has nothing to do with welcoming sinners, the unsaved, whatever term one prefers, into the church. That's always been the whole idea. To welcome them in and guide them towards being deciples of Christ.

That's not what this is. This is like having a Swingers Mass. Welcoming all swingers and having a nightclub like atmosphere in the Church to make swingers feel right at home.

Like saying the church is perfectly accepting of the swinger lifestyle. The church website has joined with Tinder and Ginder to be more swinger friendly. And just installed a cocktail bar and strobe lights.

 

[Whyayeman]

This has nothing to do with welcoming sinners, the unsaved, whatever term one prefers, into the church. That's always been the whole idea. To welcome them in and guide them towards being deciples of Christ.

That's not what this is. This is like having a Swingers Mass. Welcoming all swingers and having a nightclub like atmosphere in the Church to make swingers feel right at home.

Like saying the church is perfectly accepting of the swinger lifestyle. The church website has joined with Tinder and Ginder to be more swinger friendly. And just installed a cocktail bar and strobe lights.

You know, I don't think it is at all like a swingers' mass and everything to do with the Christian requirement not to be judgmental. The Pride mass has taken place each year for seven years. The American Society for Tradition, Family and Property has taken against it. No surprise there!

Is it not possible that gay men and women can be made welcome?

 

[ozso]

You know, I don't think it is at all like a swingers' mass and everything to do with the Christian requirement not to be judgmental. The Pride mass has taken place each year for seven years. The American Society for Tradition, Family and Property has taken against it. No surprise there!

Is it not possible that gay men and women can be made welcome?

Pride is a celebration of sexual immorality. But it doesn't hold any more of a special place in the realm of sexual immorality than any other form of sexual immorality. They might as well have a Prostitution Mass.

There's a big difference between making people feel welcome and being in league with immorality.

 

[Larniavc]

I live near Hoboken, NJ, and recently, a Pride Mass at a local Catholic church stirred a lot of controversy among Catholics.

“Pride Mass” at Catholic Church Wounds the Sacred Heart

Wolves are destroying the Faith from within. For a seventh year, a sacrilegious “Pride Mass” took place on June 23, 2024 at Our Lady of Grace Church in Hobo

www.tfp.org

Personally, I’m politically independent and prefer to assess situations based on context, not ideology. I find both far-left and far-right views often extreme, especially when they enter spaces like churches. Churches should be places of refuge and hope, not political battlegrounds.

That said, I don’t understand why some Christians react so angrily to churches welcoming LGBT individuals. If the goal is to help people find God, isn’t the church precisely where they should be? Who are we to deny anyone the chance to seek faith? If a person struggling with their sexuality is willing to explore a relationship with God—even if they’ve been told He hates them—shouldn’t that be encouraged?

We see churches accepting people with various sins, yet some react harshly to LGBT individuals. Unless a church explicitly endorses actions contrary to its teachings, why object to them extending a hand to those searching for God?

As an atheist the lens I see this through is authoritarian. The more authoritarian the Christian is the more the Bible needs to be adhered to as its message trumps all. Less authoritarian Christians seem to place their view of God’s character higher than the Bible.

So there’s never really going to be any agreement between Christians with differing levels of authoritarianism.

Either gaywise behaviour ‘deserves the sword’ as per the Bible or ‘God would not call for that’ camp and na’er the twain.

 

[Whyayeman]

As an atheist the lens I see this through is authoritarian. The more authoritarian the Christian is the more the Bible needs to be adhered to as its message trumps all. Less authoritarian Christians seem to place their view of God’s character higher than the Bible.

So there’s never really going to be any agreement between Christians with differing levels of authoritarianism.

Either gaywise behaviour ‘deserves the sword’ as per the Bible or ‘God would not call for that’ camp and na’er the twain.

I think that is right. The authority of the Old Testament is replaced by a message of love. For me 'loving thy neighbour' was an improvement on all that smiting.

 

[Whyayeman]

There's a big difference between making people feel welcome and being in league with immorality.

That is the rub, isn't it. The church in the story might have something to say on the question. I would want some evidence that the priest or the congregation were 'in league with immorality'. The article cited in the first post in the thread does not give any. Until we know different the charitable course must be to believe they are offering a welcome to gay people.

 

[ozso]

That is the rub, isn't it. The church in the story might have something to say on the question. I would want some evidence that the priest or the congregation were 'in league with immorality'. The article cited in the first post in the thread does not give any. Until we know different the charitable course must be to believe they are offering a welcome to gay people.

The description of the Pride Mass makes it quite clear. It's a Mass in combination with LGBTQQIP2SA+ Pride. It's no different than if there was a Fornication Pride Mass. Or a Prostitution Pride Mass. Or a Stripper Pride Mass. Fornicators need to feel welcome in church too. But that isn't supposed to entail setting up a service to make fornicators feel proud of being fornicators.

The message shouldn't be, "you have sex with people you're not married to? Well that's okay with the church. The church wants you to retain that and take pride in it". Instead the duty of the church is to tell them to repent, as in stop doing that, leave your life behind you, take up your cross and follow Christ in seeking holiness.

 

[ozso]

I think that is right. The authority of the Old Testament is replaced by a message of love. For me 'loving thy neighbour' was an improvement on all that smiting.

No the message is to live a life of holiness. That's what being a Christian is supposed to be about and that's the message the church is supposed to put out. Jesus' message is stop sinning and lead others to do likewise.

Christian love is not manifested in accepting, enabling, condoning and encouraging sin. Christian love isn't about making people feel good about sinning. Or making them feel comfortable in their sin.

Christian love is about leading people off the broad road that leads to destruction, and onto the narrow path that few find, that leads to the narrow gate of salvation that few enter.

You can treat someone like royalty during their brief time here on earth. But that's not going to do them any good in eternity if they've chosen the path to destruction.

 

[BCP1928]

The description of the Pride Mass makes it quite clear. It's a Mass in combination with LGBTQQIP2SA+ Pride. It's no different than if there was a Fornication Pride Mass. Or a Prostitution Pride Mass. Or a Stripper Pride Mass. Fornicators need to feel welcome in church too. But that isn't supposed to entail setting up a service to make fornicators feel proud of being fornicators.

The message shouldn't be, "you have sex with people you're not married to? Well that's okay with the church. The church wants you to retain that and take pride in it". Instead the duty of the church is to tell them to repent, as in stop doing that, leave your life behind you, take up your cross and follow Christ in seeking holiness.

The purpose of the Mass is to administer the Sacraments to those who have confessed their sins. Anybody else who wants to may attend the service, you don't even have to be Christian.

 

[ozso]

I think that is right. The authority of the Old Testament is replaced by a message of love. For me 'loving thy neighbour' was an improvement on all that smiting.

Did you know that there's virtually nothing in the Old Testament that says anything about being shut out of heaven and left in the outrer darkness where there's weeping and gnashing of teeth? Nothing about the Lake of Fire? That's all New Testament. Mainly from the words of Jesus.

 

[Whyayeman]

Did you know that there's virtually nothing in the Old Testament that says anything about being shut out of heaven and left in the outrer darkness where there's weeping and gnashing of teeth? Nothing about the Lake of Fire? That's all New Testament. Mainly from the words of Jesus.

I think that is irrelevant to the authoritarian 'Shalt nots' of the Old Testament. I take from the New Testament the sense of a generous principle of forgiveness and reconciliation, of 'turning the other cheek', walking a mile in the shoes of your supposed enemy, of the Beatitudes, and of sitting down with 'publicans and sinners'. I am not interested in the lakes of fire or the gnashing of teeth bits.

That is what appears to me to be happening in the RC church of Our Lady of Grace. It is what I have taken from religion - as far as I can learn from my experience of it.

 

[Cis.jd]

The description of the Pride Mass makes it quite clear. It's a Mass in combination with LGBTQQIP2SA+ Pride. It's no different than if there was a Fornication Pride Mass. Or a Prostitution Pride Mass. Or a Stripper Pride Mass. Fornicators need to feel welcome in church too. But that isn't supposed to entail setting up a service to make fornicators feel proud of being fornicators.

The message shouldn't be, "you have sex with people you're not married to? Well that's okay with the church. The church wants you to retain that and take pride in it". Instead the duty of the church is to tell them to repent, as in stop doing that, leave your life behind you, take up your cross and follow Christ in seeking holiness.

I get that. The word "pride" mass is something i don't like. In fact, the term "Pride" as a way to classify this movement is jarring to me. I get what you are saying. My opinion on "pride mass" is the same as if churches made a "Maga mass", political movements should be taken out of church. This is for your spirituality not politics.

I'm not against having a mass for people who are gay, but I don't agree with hopping on the cliché. Let them have mass to comfort them, not condemn.. but at the same time, keep some boundaries.

 

[ozso]

I get that. The word "pride" mass is something i don't like. In fact, the term "Pride" as a way to classify this movement is jarring to me. I get what you are saying. My opinion on "pride mass" is the same as if churches made a "Maga mass", political movements should be taken out of church. This is for your spirituality not politics.

I'm not against having a mass for people who are gay, but I don't agree with hopping on the cliché. Let them have mass to comfort them, not condemn.. but at the same time, keep some boundaries.

I'm against it because I don't think there should be a separate special mass for any group. And that's the thing with LGBT. It's not about being equal and being treated the same as everyone else. It's about getting lots of special attention and treatment that no other group gets.

 

[Desk trauma]

Insanity, others could catch the gay.

 

[Cis.jd]

I'm against it because I don't think there should be a separate special mass for any group. And that's the thing with LGBT. It's not about being equal and being treated the same as everyone else. It's about getting lots of special attention and treatment that no other group gets.

For them, yes. I do think a mass for them is needed because this group has been told over and over again that "God hates them". Maybe seeing others who are on the same boat trying to come to God is not such a bad thing.

 

[ozso]

Insanity, others could catch the gay.

Very old fashioned thinking. G is just one letter out of the LGBTQQIP2SAA+ alphabet.

 

[LoriSaysHey2U]

I live near Hoboken, NJ, and recently, a Pride Mass at a local Catholic church stirred a lot of controversy among Catholics.

“Pride Mass” at Catholic Church Wounds the Sacred Heart

Wolves are destroying the Faith from within. For a seventh year, a sacrilegious “Pride Mass” took place on June 23, 2024 at Our Lady of Grace Church in Hobo

www.tfp.org

Personally, I’m politically independent and prefer to assess situations based on context, not ideology. I find both far-left and far-right views often extreme, especially when they enter spaces like churches. Churches should be places of refuge and hope, not political battlegrounds.

That said, I don’t understand why some Christians react so angrily to churches welcoming LGBT individuals. If the goal is to help people find God, isn’t the church precisely where they should be? Who are we to deny anyone the chance to seek faith? If a person struggling with their sexuality is willing to explore a relationship with God—even if they’ve been told He hates them—shouldn’t that be encouraged?

We see churches accepting people with various sins, yet some react harshly to LGBT individuals. Unless a church explicitly endorses actions contrary to its teachings, why object to them extending a hand to those searching for God?

If an LGBT+ person wanted to pray with me to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and repent from their sins, I would be standing at the front of the line!

 

[public hermit]

I live near Hoboken, NJ, and recently, a Pride Mass at a local Catholic church stirred a lot of controversy among Catholics.

“Pride Mass” at Catholic Church Wounds the Sacred Heart

Wolves are destroying the Faith from within. For a seventh year, a sacrilegious “Pride Mass” took place on June 23, 2024 at Our Lady of Grace Church in Hobo

www.tfp.org

Personally, I’m politically independent and prefer to assess situations based on context, not ideology. I find both far-left and far-right views often extreme, especially when they enter spaces like churches. Churches should be places of refuge and hope, not political battlegrounds.

That said, I don’t understand why some Christians react so angrily to churches welcoming LGBT individuals. If the goal is to help people find God, isn’t the church precisely where they should be? Who are we to deny anyone the chance to seek faith? If a person struggling with their sexuality is willing to explore a relationship with God—even if they’ve been told He hates them—shouldn’t that be encouraged?

We see churches accepting people with various sins, yet some react harshly to LGBT individuals. Unless a church explicitly endorses actions contrary to its teachings, why object to them extending a hand to those searching for God?

I think churches inviting and praying with LGBT folks is the good thing to do. I don't think church folks ought to worry about whether their condoning sin or not. If someone is doing something I don't agree with, then I try not to do it. Worrying about myself is the limit of my domain, and it's enough to keep me busy. God can handle the rest.

The only thing I find concerning is the idea that one's identity is primarily located in their sexual orientation. Our sexual orientation is only one aspect of our whole person. I assume the "identity" focus is, in part, a reaction to being rejected for so long by so many people. Maybe if churches were welcoming, that hyper focus on sexualoty would lose its pull and LGBT folks would feel comfortable just being people.

And, honestly, I think the obsession some have with the sexuality of others is a little odd. I don't want to hear or think about what others might be doing. They can keep all that in the bedroom, and it won't hurt my feelings a bit.

 

[ozso]

If an LGBT+ person wanted to pray with me to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and repent from their sins, I would be standing at the front of the line!

Would you be wearing an LGBT+ Pride shirt?

Because that's what this amounts to. Metaphorically speaking the Church is wearing a Pride shirt and waving a Pride flag.