What is your stance on Churches inviting and praying with LGBT?

[RileyG]

Sexual intimacy always includes lust. I don't know why some people want to demonise lust. Love without lust is more like the way you love your parents or your children, your brother or sister or your best friend. Love with lust is the foundation of forming a family with that special someone.

Ok. That’s fair. Is passion also appropriate?

Again, really depends how you define lust. Sexual attraction or arousal isn’t the same as lust in my opinion.

 

[RileyG]

I mean, it means pretty much the same thing universally.

I wouldn’t say lust is the same as attraction. You can be attracted to someone without actively lusting over them. I don’t know.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I wouldn’t say lust is the same as attraction. You can be attracted to someone without actively lusting over them. I don’t know.

Sure, and you can love somebody you lust for.

 

[RileyG]

Sure, and you can love somebody you lust for.

Yes. I agree with that.

 

[RileyG]

Its a generally held belief by a lot of people.

In regards to physics, yes.

I wasn’t aware she was a Christian, and I thought she was very supportive of gay relationships?

My memory is failing, I swear. I’m only in my late 20s. Ope!

 

[okay]

I think churches inviting and praying with LGBT folks is the good thing to do. I don't think church folks ought to worry about whether their condoning sin or not. If someone is doing something I don't agree with, then I try not to do it. Worrying about myself is the limit of my domain, and it's enough to keep me busy. God can handle the rest.

The only thing I find concerning is the idea that one's identity is primarily located in their sexual orientation. Our sexual orientation is only one aspect of our whole person. I assume the "identity" focus is, in part, a reaction to being rejected for so long by so many people. Maybe if churches were welcoming, that hyper focus on sexualoty would lose its pull and LGBT folks would feel comfortable just being people.

And, honestly, I think the obsession some have with the sexuality of others is a little odd. I don't want to hear or think about what others might be doing. They can keep all that in the bedroom, and it won't hurt my feelings a bit.

I agree. I want everyone to be welcome, and the log in my own eye is more than enough for me to deal with. I also know that there are faithful Christians with different views on human sexuality, so while I have my own beliefs, I acknowledge that I might be wrong.

Interestingly, the queer folks I know don't seem to locate their identity primarily in their sexual orientation or gender identity. But it needs to be at the forefront of their mind when looking for a faith community since some are extremely unwelcoming and can cause harm. Hopefully more and more churches will at least be upfront and clear about their posture towards lgbtq+ folks. People would rather know they are not welcome (or that they couldn't sing in the choir, or ...) than be initially led-on only to be clobbered with it later after starting to become part of the community. I was recently talking with a gay person about their search for a new church after moving to a new city, and in their words "if I cannot easily find the info on their web site then I need to assume I won't be welcome."

I am in the process of changing churches, mostly because my old one was so far from home that it was a barrier to me getting there very often. Both my old church and my new church include everyone, but the new one is an Episcopal parish that handles it the way I think is most appropriate. Most here would probably disagree with it, but that is fine. We are still siblings in Christ!

 

[christian-surfer]

If being far left is their religion then they might not fit in with the church depending on what type of church it is. Otherwise I am not sure why they would be interested in the Christian faith unless maybe something is not going right for them and they are trying to figure out why and are somewhat open minded to seek answers

 

[stevil]

If being far left is their religion then they might not fit in with the church

Are churches political? Are they right wing?

Otherwise I am not sure why they would be interested in the Christian faith unless maybe something is not going right for them and they are trying to figure out why and are somewhat open minded to seek answers

I have no idea why people seek out Christian faith, but I would presume that the same reasons why some non LGBQT+ seek it out would be the same reasons why some LGBQT+ people would seek it out.

 

[okay]

If being far left is their religion then they might not fit in with the church depending on what type of church it is. Otherwise I am not sure why they would be interested in the Christian faith unless maybe something is not going right for them and they are trying to figure out why and are somewhat open minded to seek answers

Their reasons for desiring God and wanting to follow Christ are the same as anyone elses. “Being far left” is not their religion. They just happen to be attracted to people of the same sex. Otherwise they are as typical as anyone.

 

[essentialsaltes]

One view on the topic:
Baptist pastor says gay preachers 'should get a bullet in their brain'

A Texas preacher is shamelessly and brazenly calling for the murder of two gay pastors and the church officials who hosted them.

Dillon Awes ... recently attacked the head of a local megachurch for inviting two married gay men to deliver a sermon. Awes said that Pastor Charles Andrew Stanley, who founded the nondenominational evangelical North Point Ministries, and the two men should "get the death penalty, not be preaching behind the pulpit.”

 

[RileyG]

One view on the topic:
Baptist pastor says gay preachers 'should get a bullet in their brain'

A Texas preacher is shamelessly and brazenly calling for the murder of two gay pastors and the church officials who hosted them.

Dillon Awes ... recently attacked the head of a local megachurch for inviting two married gay men to deliver a sermon. Awes said that Pastor Charles Andrew Stanley, who founded the nondenominational evangelical North Point Ministries, and the two men should "get the death penalty, not be preaching behind the pulpit.”

That’s horrible! Ugh

 

[PloverWing]

Dillon Awes ... recently attacked the head of a local megachurch for inviting two married gay men to deliver a sermon.

I just looked up Mr. Awes' church, Stedfast Baptist Church in Cedar Hill, Texas. It's an ... impressive church website. As far as I can tell, their faith is a ball of hate with "Jesus" scribbled on the top. They're not just anti-gay; they're also anti-Catholic and anti-Calvinist and anti-a-bunch-of-other-things. They favor the death penalty for a disturbingly large number of offenses, but they do state that private citizens shouldn't be carrying out the death penalty on their own, so there's that, at least.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I just looked up Mr. Awes' church ... As far as I can tell, their faith is a ball of hate with "Jesus" scribbled on the top.

Thanks, I actually edited out "hate preacher" from that article, since I didn't know the guy, and maybe The Advocate is not exactly a neutral observer on the topic. Sounds like the shoe fits.

 

[RileyG]

I just looked up Mr. Awes' church, Stedfast Baptist Church in Cedar Hill, Texas. It's an ... impressive church website. As far as I can tell, their faith is a ball of hate with "Jesus" scribbled on the top. They're not just anti-gay; they're also anti-Catholic and anti-Calvinist and anti-a-bunch-of-other-things. They favor the death penalty for a disturbingly large number of offenses, but they do state that private citizens shouldn't be carrying out the death penalty on their own, so there's that, at least.

Yikes!

 

[stevevw]

If for example there are members from the LGBTIQ+ community welcomed within the church do you think that they should be able to form a relationship and marry within that church.

The reason I ask is it seems to be if a church welcomes the LGBTIQ+ community just like in welcoming heterosexuals who may get married within the church that the members of the LGBTIQ+ community should also be able to marry. That would be the logical follow on.

Otherwise should they be welcomed but told they are not welcome to have a relationship and get married. If so according to trans supporters anyone who does not affoirm not only the persons identity but also it follows to also accept and affirm their choices of partners just like everyone else.

So we end up with a situation where if the church does not welcome the LGBTIQ+ community they are being exclusive and offending them. Or if they welcome them but then deny the same rights as the rest of the members to marry. Thus also being exclusive and offending them.

Its like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. But then maybe its no different to say adultery or other lifestyle choices like substance use, belonging to a radical group that hates Jews or something. All these groups are welcome but they must repent of then refrain from practicing those lifestyles.

I guess its the same for everyone. We all have stuff that we have to give up when we come to God. Even the secular norms like sex before marriage, casual sex, self indulging, greed, worshipping money. These are all lifestyle choices we have to give up and its hard to do. An unmarried Christian must stay celibate.

So I don't think asking the LGBTIQ+ community to giveup something to follow God as we all have to do it. Thats what following God means, sacrificing your own desires, wants and determinations for Gods Will. It seems today people don't want to sacrifice anything and try to have the best of both worlds.

 

[okay]

Stevevw,

Like many issues there are faithful Christians with different views. Most believers are in denominations that do not perform or even accept same-sex weddings. But a relatively small percentage are.

I have a fairly traditional sexual ethic in one way: I think sex outside of marriage is sin. I just think marriage should be available to queer couples as well.

I am happy to agree to disagree on this (CF doesn’t allow real a discussion anyway).

 

[ViaCrucis]

As an atheist the lens I see this through is authoritarian. The more authoritarian the Christian is the more the Bible needs to be adhered to as its message trumps all. Less authoritarian Christians seem to place their view of God’s character higher than the Bible.

I think that's what certain segments of the Christian population want it to seem like.

But, at least from where I'm standing, it seems like the inverse.

I don't see the authoritarianism as having a stronger adherence to the Bible, but less.

Obviously anecdotal; but my experience over the years has been that the more hardline, moralistic, and authoritarian someone says they are, the less they understand or have experience reading the Bible. Bland appeals to "the authority of the Bible" are much easier to make than putting in effort to make sense of a millennia-old set of texts and take what it says seriously in a personally applicable way.

It's the same difference between taking the Jewish Carpenter from Nazareth seriously, and having a generic gnostificized Anglo-American "Jesus" that functions as one's personal moralistic cheerleader.

-CryptoLutheran