What is your "endtime" view?

[johnd]

Good man.You broke the only rule Christ put in the book of Revelations.walt2000

Oh?

 

[johnd]

.You and all the people that chose that ,chose BABEL.
If you can prove me wrong ,
do so.walt2000

Not so keen on trying to prove you wrong as you appear to love claiming you do with others. But what ARE you saying? So far all you say is everyone else is wrong... have I missed your points, could you help me out with telling me what number your posts are that you actually make a statement / assertion rather than mere critiques?

Thanks.

 

[johnd]

Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I have broken none of these rules.

Don't know if you are aware of it, stranger, but this is echoed in the three major divisions of scripture (the Law the Prophets and the Writings).

Deuteronomy 4:2
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Proverbs 30:5-6
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Show me how I have broken them.

 

[Arc]

This is pure ignorance,You are defying the only rule that Christ gave you.Rev.22/18.
and,let alone how to intrepid. the seven Thunders ,and ,you know not a thing, about the eighth Thunder.
You are mixing the old and new testament,and defying the word of God.Let Revelations alone..walt2000

I just quoted what it says. I haven't come up with an interpretive grid that others must use which then contradicts the stated texts I cited. Also, I did not even quote an old testament passage.

If your interpretation of Revelation contradicts the rest of the new testament, it's a pretty good indicator that your interpretation is not correct.

 

[walt2000]

Oh?

There is one rule in the intrp.of Rev.That rule is Rev.22/18

The moment you introduce a element, from any other book ,of the bible ,or other version of Rev.that includes a scriptural point ,you come in to err. in the intrp. of Rev.And that makes you wrong.

You have to get every thing from the book of Rev.Then prove it .with the OT. prophets.

Not Find the Prophets and try to prove the profits right .using Rev.

Rev. is like a ribbon of words ,that come out of the mouth of God.
There are no italics ,or space's ,or punctuation marks in the book (Ribbon).You have to take this ribbon and wrap it like a long prayer cord of words ,around and around ,like a cylinder. Then Tighten the ribbon ,around tightening it side by side, to make a cylinder of it ,not unlike a cardboard roll,or like that of scroll .

When you have the ribbon of words wrapped ,to the right tightness ,they will start to make words ,Side ways ,and horizontal like a crossword puzzle,Vertically and horizontally.

You then cut the roll of words at the.
Things Thu seen at.Re.1-2

First promise. Re.2/1 introduction promises.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1.The first Seal. Re. 6/1-----------------------1 st. thunder. no. of unity
2.The first trumpet. Re.8/7--------------------2 nd. thunder. no.of union
3.Holy city tread 1260 days. Re.11/12----------3 rd. thunder. no.of trinity
4.Dragon ,woman and child. Re.12/1------------4 th. thunder. no.of Earth
5.Preaching to the world. Re.14/6--------------5 th. thunder. no.of Word

6.First Vial. Re.16/2---------------------------6 th. thunder. no.of Man

7.The great harlot. Re.17/1--------------------7 th. thunder.no.of divine
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then the last bit is the THINGS WHICH SHALL BE HEREAFTER,Re.21-22

Now ,what you have is, Things Thu seen,Things which are, and lastly The Things which shall be hereafter.

Lay the paper flat like a fullscap. of paper.

The Seven Thunders ,are the seven ,that are grouped in the middle numbered.1,2,3,4,5,6,7.

And that is the way you get my Chart.
It is all in order and repeats itself ,

Seven stories,
scripture by scripture ,
Seven times ,
Seven candles,
Seven church's ,
Seven Thunders.
walt2000

 

[walt2000]

Now you can see why you can not int roduce any elements in the middle ,it mixes every thing up.walt2000

 

[walt2000]

Every Thing Else is a Sin Against Christ.Re.22/18 ,
and if you insist on anything else ,you get Rev.22/19.
walt2000

 

[walt2000]

Be happy ,You have been told.
The ancients would have been glad to give up their life's, to Know what you now Know.

walt2000

 

[walt2000]

Sorry For Dominating this thread, but there is only one End Time View.All else is Babel.
walt2000

 

[walt2000]

#162

31st August 2008, 11:29 PM
johnd

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Originally Posted by walt2000

.You and all the people that chose that ,chose BABEL.
If you can prove me wrong ,
do so.walt2000
​

Not so keen on trying to prove you wrong as you appear to love claiming you do with others. But what ARE you saying? So far all you say is everyone else is wrong... have I missed your points, could you help me out with telling me what number your posts are that you actually make a statement / assertion rather than mere critiques?

Google walt2000,walt2000 revelations,walt2000 germatria ,walt2000 charts .
Actually make statements ?my work is all statements!And your right ,I give you proof, my proof is in the reading ,every body is wrong!!!!
I haven't read any body yet, that can Tell me the intep. of Rev.10 and do it ,with out going out of ,and staying in Rev.only .
That is a statement .And I have been at this for over 35 years .

I don't want anybody to get mad at me,I just want proof ,for my benefit ,I need to be shown I am wrong.And all this is a figment of my imagination.
I am not taking any of this personal.This is for me.
walt2000

 

[MrSnow]

Sorry For Dominating this thread, but there is only one End Time View.All else is Babel.
walt2000

The OP explicately requested that we merely state our views and not debate them. All else is Babel.

 

[walt2000]

You are right ,I will start a new post if you don't mind .So we can dig deeper into this Subject.To debate all interpretations of Revelations ,The proper interpretation of Revelations By


The interpretation of Revelations.
Open to all,no holds barred.with bebate.
Only one Rule. That Christ made himself Rev.22/18 -20

See me there And this thread from now on.
walt2000

 

[GadFly]

A better question would be to ask what was Christ's end time view was and is. He told us in the four Gospels what this was, although if you go by the end time views written in books and preached on radio and TV, you'll never understand what Jesus said about the end of time. When the disciples asked Christ about the end of time, Jesus replied, that He had told them all things. Well, that's good enough for me but most people will not accept what Jesus said.

As an example of this fact, does any interpretation you know of the book called the Revelation of Jesus Christ even remotely resemble what Christ said about the end of time in the four Gospels? Jesus said nothing about the au-millennial, post millennial, pre-millennial, post tribulation, pre-tribulation, mark of the beast, antichrist, etc. But what did he know about Bible interpretation? Since Jesus did not believably tell us about the end of time, we are forced to make up a theory of the end of time ourselves, right?

The only problem that I see with making up my own theory is that Christ said that if I added one thing or took away one thing from his testimony about the end of time that He would blot my name out of his book and place all those terrible curses and plagues on me listed in the last chapter of the Book of Revelation. Now do I believe this?

If I believe this, the only safe way to interpret Christ's testimony about the end of time is to use only the vocabulary of Jesus Christ. That should be enough to explain the Bible. Biblical terms to explain the Bible. Why not? If you can use only Biblical terms to explain your theory, you have a half way chance to be correct. That seems to be what Jesus encouraged when He said do not add to or take away from his testimony. The problem with this, if one does not use operationally defined terms, vernacular terms, and stuff people never heard or read about in the Bible, we will not be able to sell a lot of books and stuff. Do you get the point?

 

[johnd]

There is one rule in the intrp.of Rev.That rule is Rev.22/18

The moment you introduce a element, from any other book ,of the bible ,or other version of Rev.that includes a scriptural point ,you come in to err. in the intrp. of Rev.And that makes you wrong.

Without a working knowledge of the rest of the Bible, Revelation is the subject of ignorant interpolation... meaning it could be interpreted to mean anything (and THAT is adding to or taking away from the book of unveiling / revealing).

You have to get every thing from the book of Rev.Then prove it .with the OT. prophets.

Wow. Where to begin with thinking like this...

Not Find the Prophets and try to prove the profits right .using Rev.

Fine. You show me where this is said in this detail using this form of interpretation.

I'll counter with:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Rev. is like a ribbon of words ,that come out of the mouth of God.
There are no italics ,or space's ,or punctuation marks in the book (Ribbon).You have to take this ribbon and wrap it like a long prayer cord of words ,around and around ,like a cylinder. Then Tighten the ribbon ,around tightening it side by side, to make a cylinder of it ,not unlike a cardboard roll,or like that of scroll .

No it's not.

Revelation is the roof of the scriptural blueprint of the house of God. Genesis is the foundation. This is why the two contain similar footprints (as in a blueprint of where walls would stand and extend). Apparently someone convinced you that Revelation somehow stands alone.

{snip the outline of what any one can read in the book for themselves is there}

The repetition you mention is throughout the Bible. God repeatedly tells humanity the same story line in different ways.

I further challenge you to prove your thesis given the fact that Revelation was not the first book of the Bible written or revealed but as far as we can tell it was the last book to be written. Why would God reveal it last if as you say he wants it interpreted first?

 

[johnd]

Revelation 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Genesis 37:9-11
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

 

[walt2000]

A better question would be to ask what was Christ's end time view was and is. He told us in the four Gospels what this was, although if you go by the end time views written in books and preached on radio and TV, you'll never understand what Jesus said about the end of time. When the disciples asked Christ about the end of time, Jesus replied, that He had told them all things. Well, that's good enough for me but most people will not accept what Jesus said.

As an example of this fact, does any interpretation you know of the book called the Revelation of Jesus Christ even remotely resemble what Christ said about the end of time in the four Gospels? Jesus said nothing about the au-millennial, post millennial, pre-millennial, post tribulation, pre-tribulation, mark of the beast, antichrist, etc. But what did he know about Bible interpretation? Since Jesus did not believably tell us about the end of time, we are forced to make up a theory of the end of time ourselves, right?

The only problem that I see with making up my own theory is that Christ said that if I added one thing or took away one thing from his testimony about the end of time that He would blot my name out of his book and place all those terrible curses and plagues on me listed in the last chapter of the Book of Revelation. Now do I believe this?

If I believe this, the only safe way to interpret Christ's testimony about the end of time is to use only the vocabulary of Jesus Christ. That should be enough to explain the Bible. Biblical terms to explain the Bible. Why not? If you can use only Biblical terms to explain your theory, you have a half way chance to be correct. That seems to be what Jesus encouraged when He said do not add to or take away from his testimony. The problem with this, if one does not use operationally defined terms, vernacular terms, and stuff people never heard or read about in the Bible, we will not be able to sell a lot of books and stuff. Do you get the point?

A better question would be to ask what was Christ's end time view was and is. He told us in the four Gospels what this was, although if you go by the end time views written in books and preached on radio and TV, you'll never understand what Jesus said about the end of time.

This is the prime reason why Christ put in Rev.22/18 .He dictated the book knowing that man was going to make a harlot of his sacrifice on the cross ,and told us so ,we would make it to serve their own ends.
It is my opinion ,that Revelations is a book to stand on it's own legs.And keep the book free of human intervention.Under the pain of the plagues, to keep man ,and the dragon,from polluting and vomiting on the the true word of God.
And that was the premise that I was lead to follow.
The new test Prophets Have been turned upside down and back words.They were individual books ,that were assembled by a church that wanted to gain control ,and keep populous under control .He knew that ,and knew that in the end time ,he would release the right key that would open up that, that was sealed.
And I believe the Chart is the Key.Look how things line up ,and repeat them selves ,over and over, church by church.Exactly Seven times.and not move a scripture to do it.
All the scripture is in order as it came out of his mouth,Revelations were put in ,and pulled out, and put back in again.
Seven Thunders now unsealed.That little scroll sweet in the mouth, and sourer in the stomach.walt2000

 

[walt2000]

Without a working knowledge of the rest of the Bible, Revelation is the subject of ignorant interpolation... meaning it could be interpreted to mean anything (and THAT is adding to or taking away from the book of unveiling / revealing).

Wow. Where to begin with thinking like this...

Fine. You show me where this is said in this detail using this form of interpretation.

I'll counter with:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

No it's not.

Revelation is the roof of the scriptural blueprint of the house of God. Genesis is the foundation. This is why the two contain similar footprints (as in a blueprint of where walls would stand and extend). Apparently someone convinced you that Revelation somehow stands alone.

{snip the outline of what any one can read in the book for themselves is there}

The repetition you mention is throughout the Bible. God repeatedly tells humanity the same story line in different ways.

I further challenge you to prove your thesis given the fact that Revelation was not the first book of the Bible written or revealed but as far as we can tell it was the last book to be written. Why would God reveal it last if as you say he wants it interpreted first?

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


This I believe , is the Truth.And at his good time.He will make his word be known.walt2000

 

[walt2000]

A better question would be to ask what was Christ's end time view was and is. He told us in the four Gospels what this was, although if you go by the end time views written in books and preached on radio and TV, you'll never understand what Jesus said about the end of time. When the disciples asked Christ about the end of time, Jesus replied, that He had told them all things. Well, that's good enough for me but most people will not accept what Jesus said.

As an example of this fact, does any interpretation you know of the book called the Revelation of Jesus Christ even remotely resemble what Christ said about the end of time in the four Gospels? Jesus said nothing about the au-millennial, post millennial, pre-millennial, post tribulation, pre-tribulation, mark of the beast, antichrist, etc. But what did he know about Bible interpretation? Since Jesus did not believably tell us about the end of time, we are forced to make up a theory of the end of time ourselves, right?

The only problem that I see with making up my own theory is that Christ said that if I added one thing or took away one thing from his testimony about the end of time that He would blot my name out of his book and place all those terrible curses and plagues on me listed in the last chapter of the Book of Revelation. Now do I believe this?

If I believe this, the only safe way to interpret Christ's testimony about the end of time is to use only the vocabulary of Jesus Christ. That should be enough to explain the Bible. Biblical terms to explain the Bible. Why not? If you can use only Biblical terms to explain your theory, you have a half way chance to be correct. That seems to be what Jesus encouraged when He said do not add to or take away from his testimony. The problem with this, if one does not use operationally defined terms, vernacular terms, and stuff people never heard or read about in the Bible, we will not be able to sell a lot of books and stuff. Do you get the point?

This do's not include an Eighth Thunder, hidden between the White Horses.
I think Revelations is a see I told you book ,a stand alone book .If Christ warns us not to defile rev. by introducing any other book, or change Rev.to suit our selfs .Look at this chart and tell me that there is no structure to it .And the introduction of any other material would off set the original alignment.And would be babel.Every thing is aliened in a perfect order.horizontally and vertically.This fact can not be ignored.

This -au ,pre, mid ,and post trib. anti.Christ then marking 666 on their head or right hand .Christ comes ,then he go's ,and then he comes again,rules 1000 years then gives it to ???. I don't know ,just doe's not make sense.This ,to me ,Babel.

Rev. has a straight forwardness about it ,
If you have soooo many theorys to this fact, I ,would pick the simplest one, this is to me, and maybe
me only .Is it that which is below.

He comes as a potential (wearing a crown) winner, --------------------,1st. advent.
He comes back as a conquerer gets ,multi.(several crowns) real winner ----,2nd.Advent.
And rules forever.
Now that makes sense, to me.

Put your self in his place ,you are God .You dame some one ,he is damed ,You do not have to come back and re dame him.He is dead meat.....
walt2000

 

[squint]

This do's not include an Eighth Thunder, hidden between the White Horses.
I think Revelations is a see I told you book ,a stand alone book .If Christ warns us not to defile rev. by introducing any other book, or change Rev.to suit our selfs .Look at this chart and tell me that there is no structure to it .And the introduction of any other material would off set the original alignment.And would be babel.Every thing is aliened in a perfect order.horizontally and vertically.This fact can not be ignored.

This -au ,pre, mid ,and post trib. anti.Christ then marking 666 on their head or right hand .Christ comes ,then he go's ,and then he comes again,rules 1000 years then gives it to ???. I don't know ,just doe's not make sense.This ,to me ,Babel.

Rev. has a straight forwardness about it ,
If you have soooo many theorys to this fact, I ,would pick the simplest one, this is to me, and maybe
me only .Is it that which is below.

He comes as a potential (wearing a crown) winner, --------------------,1st. advent.
He comes back as a conquerer gets ,multi.(several crowns) real winner ----,2nd.Advent.
And rules forever.
Now that makes sense, to me.

Put your self in his place ,you are God .You dame some one ,he is damed ,You do not have to come back and re dame him.He is dead meat.....
walt2000

Sorry Walt. I've viewed several dozens of such charts and in the very process of CHARTING you TOO have 'added' to the Words of Revelation. There were NO CHARTS therein.

What you have perpetually asked others in this thread to DO is to BOW DOWN TO YOUR CHARTS which actions in itself speaks for the IDOLOTRY that it is. The Words of Revelation are not CHARTS, but the reality of CHRIST in us who is FAR beyond 'charting' and enclosing in little lines and squares and circles that NONE but YOU and your IDOL can understand.

enjoy!

squint

 

[zeke37]

Hello there...

A better question would be to ask what was Christ's end time view was and is. He told us in the four Gospels what this was, although if you go by the end time views written in books and preached on radio and TV, you'll never understand what Jesus said about the end of time.

there's a few good ones...not many IMO, but a few..

When the disciples asked Christ about the end of time, Jesus replied, that He had told them all things. Well, that's good enough for me but most people will not accept what Jesus said.

He did tell us all things, through the Prophets and to the disciples...He is the Word of God...and ALL of Scripture is His Word.

As an example of this fact, does any interpretation you know of the book called the Revelation of Jesus Christ even remotely resemble what Christ said about the end of time in the four Gospels?

yep...much of it...all the Seals for example....even in a row..(same order as Christ's warnings in the Gospels Olivette prophesies)

Jesus said nothing about the au-millennial, post millennial, pre-millennial, post tribulation, pre-tribulation, mark of the beast, antichrist, etc.

Sure He did...He said AFTER....in Mat24:29-31, Mark13:24-27, making the timing of Christ's arrival post tribulation...making our time here now, pre millennial. Christ is the one who taught us what the mark is...what you think and what you do....remember that He is the Word of God...

But what did he know about Bible interpretation?

everything

Since Jesus did not believably tell us about the end of time, we are forced to make up a theory of the end of time ourselves, right?

pardon me? Christ certainly did tell us...Mat24:3 and forward...and Mar13 as well...even Luke21 tells us many events (some may argue).

The only problem that I see with making up my own theory is that Christ said that if I added one thing or took away one thing from his testimony about the end of time that He would blot my name out of his book and place all those terrible curses and plagues on me listed in the last chapter of the Book of Revelation. Now do I believe this?

If I believe this, the only safe way to interpret Christ's testimony about the end of time is to use only the vocabulary of Jesus Christ. That should be enough to explain the Bible.

well, we can all be mistaken about what Christ said(translation), or meant(our understanding of the scripture), even if we rely on just Christ's own spoken words...that is, if we are being honest

we all have opinions...and judgement starts with the teachers...so you'd better be sure...if it is opinion, state it as such...if you are so absolutely sure of your understanding that you teach it as fact, then you are (as I understand it) bound to that...and have to pay a price if you led others astray with your teaching.

Many will follow the anitChrist(Satan) when he comes pretending to be Messiah, and be led astray by teachers that may love God, but failed and led the flock into believing the lie...and into Satan's camp......(Ez44)

...Biblical terms to explain the Bible. Why not? If you can use only Biblical terms to explain your theory, you have a half way chance to be correct. That seems to be what Jesus encouraged when He said do not add to or take away from his testimony. The problem with this, if one does not use operationally defined terms, vernacular terms, and stuff people never heard or read about in the Bible, we will not be able to sell a lot of books and stuff. Do you get the point?

we are to use the whole Word of God to interpret scripture...well over half of the Revelation of Jesus Christ given to John, is prophesies from the OT prophetic books...told in much the same langauge...we are to understand the symbolisms of the NT prophesies only by being first familiar with the teacher (the OT prophesies)...

I mean, if the 4 winds show up in different OT prophetic books, shouldn't we consider them ALL so as to better understand Rev7?

in His service
c