what is your born again experience

Rhamiel said:

well we see that in the Old and New testaments that people have had visions, seen angels, ect
so I do not think that this would stop
as for Koresh
his views contradicted Christian doctrines, so we know that he was not legitimate

Click to expand...

Well, there are numerous RCC views that contradict the written Word of God so how could it possibly be legitimate?

And, when people in the Bible had dreams and visions they agreed with God's Word and did not bring forth that which God forbids such as communicating with those that that are separated from this physical world as well as putting Mary before Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

Ted Lang said:

Well, there are numerous RCC views that contradict the written Word of God so how could it possibly be legitimate?

Click to expand...

the Catholic Church is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus for the salvation of souls

this is a Catholic subforum, you are very rude to come in here and tell us that we are wrong

why would I trust the interpretations of someone who shows such a lack of grace and love and SUCH a lack of understanding of true doctrine?

And, when people in the Bible had dreams and visions they agreed with God's Word and did not bring forth that which God forbids such as communicating with those that that are separated from this physical world as well as putting Mary before Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

Click to expand...

no one is putting Mary before Jesus or the Holy Spirit

Well, obviously I do not get my teaching from the RCC... I get mine directly from this Book that was published by none other than Jesus Christ Himself... and sorry to have to let you in on this, but Jesus is the only way unto salvation not the RCC

To say that one cannot be saved except thru the RCC is quite high minded, is it not?

In the RCC is the CCR, Catholic Charismatic Renewal. It is not as with Protestants that teach there is a cessation of Spiritual gifts. In the RCC the whole church is meant to practice receiving the Holy Spirit, and healings...

I repented when I was 18, at 27 I received the Holy Spirit, and at 37 I received Christ. I think now about receiving God the Father. We are Trinitarian.

Seeing what the devotion to Mary offers it is not foremost. I noticed the idea that we read scripture not for commands is interesting, from a Medjgorie book.

Some mal practice can happen in the moves of the Holy Spirit, jealousy, blasphemy.

Alan Aimes can pray to saints or the Rosary and they rest in the Spirit around him.

We need gifts with or as evidence of the Holy Spirit. We need the working effect. Sometimes we need a healing in the very short term. For the lost, the power of salvation, Jesus' blood, power.

We also need to respond to the little blessing well. "For to whom much s given, much will be expected." Gospel quote.

Rhamiel said:

this is one topic where sometimes there is a bit of confusion between Catholics and Non-Catholics

in Catholic theology, we are born again at Baptism, a once and for all change, we have our original sin (and any other sins committed before baptism) forgiven and we are united with the Body of Christ

the life changing experience of really knowing Christ and being on fire for Him is sometimes called "conversion of the heart" by Catholic mystics (I do not mean the word mystic in the occult sense, but rather I mean people who focus on a personal, spiritual, relationship directly with God)

Click to expand...

What he said

graciesings said:

"conversion of the heart." thank you for the words! I had been a little reluctant to use the evangelical/protestant "born again" term because it seemed like in liturgical churches that referred to Baptism. Yet there was a definite time where I went from being involved in dark things to realizing God loved me, and I have been committed ever since. I had been wondering how to describe that without sounding like a Baptist

Click to expand...

You were born from above. John 3 the whole verse. What man needs is not teachings but another life. This is the life of God.

Some peoples conversion experiences take place over a long time. Others have a profound encounter with the Living christ and can remember the day and month or year. The theological terms catholic or protestant does not matter as long as one comes to faith in Christ. Let us stop quibbling about terminology. As long as one confesses Jesus as Lord there a genuine Christian and brother or sister in Christ regardless of faith tradition, race, class, nationality or social status.

Ted Lang said:

Well, obviously I do not get my teaching from the RCC... I get mine directly from this Book that was published by none other than Jesus Christ Himself... and sorry to have to let you in on this, but Jesus is the only way unto salvation not the RCC

To say that one cannot be saved except thru the RCC is quite high minded, is it not?

Click to expand...

Hi Ted,

#1 - The teachings of the Catholic Church do not contradict scripture. They may contradict YOUR understanding of scripture, but YOUR understanding of scripture is not scripture.

#2 - Jesus never published a book, nor wrote anything down. His Apostles wrote, with the authority that he gave them, and the inspiration that the Holy Spirit imparted to them. The only reason you have this book is because the Church compiled it, published it, and protected it.

#3 - The idea that you simply get your teaching from the bible and nothing else is both unbiblical, and intellectually dishonest. You must interpret what you read just like every other human being. The way that you interpret it is influenced by all sorts of things in your life that form your worldview. In fact, the differences between the world you live in and the world that the bible was actually written in make it highly unlikely that you would interpret it as the people who wrote it meant it or those who received it understood it.

#4 - According to the Bible the Church IS Jesus Christ. Thus saying that the Church is the way of salvation, and saying that Jesus Christ is the way of salvation are the same thing. More over, the Church as the body of Christ is how we are individually, and corporately united with Jesus Christ, thus saying you can be saved without the Church, is saying that you can be saved without being united to Christ.

#5 - The Roman Catholic Church does NOT teach that non-Catholics are automatically condemned, or that non-Catholic Christians aren't saved. Quite the opposite. The Church teaches that non-Catholic Christians are genuine Christians and can be saved just as any Catholic can be. (I don't say that anyone IS saved simply because that's not for me to judge.)
The Catholic Church teaches that Christ has made salvation available through the Church, but even those who have separated themselves from the Church, or denied the visible unity of the Church, still receive salvation through the Church. All baptized Christians, by virtue of their baptism have been brought into the Church, even if they break unity by heresy and schizm.

#6 - Jesus Christ speaks to us through many messengers. He speaks to us through the scripture, he speaks to us through ministers that he has ordained, he speaks to us through friends and family. He may even speak to us through strangers we meet on the street. He also speaks to us personally.
But Mary, does have a special place in the relationship of every human being to God, because Jesus came into the world through her. She needed a redeemer, just as we all do, but she was chosen to be the point in all humanity through which divinity became human. It was because she said yes to God, that Jesus became flesh. By virtue of that alone, she has a special role.
However, the Kingdom of Heaven is a fulfillment of the Davidic kingdom of the old testament, and we see in that Kingdom that the Queen Mother also has a special role.

Mary's role is exemplified in the Gospels by the wedding at Cana where when the wine ran out she informed Jesus and said to the servants "do whatever he tells you". In this event, she did not tell Jesus what to do, she simply presented the problem to him, and then she said to the people "do whatever Jesus tells you."

She continues to do this today.

to be baptized

CANON IX. If any one shall say, that by faith alone the impious is justified; so as to mean that nothing else is required to co-operate in order unto obtaining the grace of justification, and that it is not in any respect necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema. (Council of Trent, Sixth Session [1547], Decree concerning Justification [trans. Theodore Alois Buckley])

I really have problems with this statement. for me this was the killer statement that put a halt to conversion to catholicism( i was baptized catholic when a baby) It is just not in line with a religion of goodwill.In fact it is an outright curse.

I believe we are saved by faith and are eternally secure from damnation. The salvation of our entire tripartite being from decay and corruption requires our willing cooperation and submission to the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us, renews us, transforms us and eventually glorifies us as long as we take in the Lord daily and grow in Christ.

If we do not cooperate we will be excluded from the Kingdom and remain in the outer darkness for 1000 years for discipline before entering the holy city New Jerusalem in a new heaven and earth in the eternal kingdom.

That is the teaching of my church and we unlike many evangelicals believe many catholics though not all are genuinely saved.

If we do not cooperate we will be excluded from the Kingdom and remain in the outer darkness for 1000 years for discipline before entering the holy city New Jerusalem in a new heaven and earth in the eternal kingdom.

Click to expand...

this is an interesting belief

it is kind of like, but not exactly like, the Catholic belief in Purgatory
that for those who are saved, but did not live a life like they should have, they have some discipline before they can enter the Kingdom

I do understand that we have different beliefs on salvation and free will, but I will not debate you on it (unless you wish to ofcourse)

iansek said:

CANON IX. If any one shall say, that by faith alone the impious is justified; so as to mean that nothing else is required to co-operate in order unto obtaining the grace of justification, and that it is not in any respect necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema. (Council of Trent, Sixth Session [1547], Decree concerning Justification [trans. Theodore Alois Buckley])

I really have problems with this statement. for me this was the killer statement that put a halt to conversion to catholicism( i was baptized catholic when a baby) It is just not in line with a religion of goodwill.In fact it is an outright curse.

I believe we are saved by faith and are eternally secure from damnation. The salvation of our entire tripartite being from decay and corruption requires our willing cooperation and submission to the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us, renews us, transforms us and eventually glorifies us as long as we take in the Lord daily and grow in Christ.

If we do not cooperate we will be excluded from the Kingdom and remain in the outer darkness for 1000 years for discipline before entering the holy city New Jerusalem in a new heaven and earth in the eternal kingdom.

That is the teaching of my church and we unlike many evangelicals believe many catholics though not all are genuinely saved.

Click to expand...

I don't think you entirely understood the canon you quoted, because you said almost the exact same thing in your own words.

The idea of being "born again" comes from John chapter 3 when Jesus is talking to Nicodemus.

Jesus tells Nicodemus "unless you are born again you can not see the kingdom of heaven"

What Jesus say's here in Greek is a play on words because the phrase "born again" also means "born from above".

Nicodemus assumes that Jesus means "born again" and this doesn't make sense to him.

Jesus' real point, however, is that you must be "born from above" and he goes on to explain this to Nicodemus by saying "that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of spirit is spirit".

The point being that Nicodemus, in focusing on being "born again" was focusing on physical birth, but Jesus was saying that we need to be born from above, meaning born from God.
Thus he clarified by saying physical birth makes you alive in the flesh, but spiritual birth (born of God) makes you alive in spirit.

Thus being "born again" or being "born from above" is about spiritual rebirth. This same idea is addressed elsewhere by saying that we are "regenerated" which basically means born again, and also by saying that we are a new creation.

The point being that the old dead spirit has been replaced by a new living spirit. The connection to God has been restored.

The New Testament is clear, if taken literally and at face value, that spiritual rebirth occurs in baptism.

Jesus says this in John chapter 3 when he uses the phrase "born again" he says you must be born of "water and the spirit" referring to baptism. Paul is very clear about this in Romans chapter 6, and in Titus 3.

Progguy said:

to be baptized

Click to expand...

Some think the physical sign of being born again is speaking gibberish immediately after water baptism!

Rhamiel said:

Revelation 12:1
And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars

Click to expand...

just for your information ..that woman is israel the 12 stars are the twelve tribes and the child is the saviour who is caught up to god .

sorry to burst the bubble .but there .it done

Alithis said:

just for your information ..that woman is israel the 12 stars are the twelve tribes and the child is the saviour who is caught up to god .

sorry to burst the bubble .but there .it done

Click to expand...

well that chapter goes on to talk about that woman giving birth to a Child

the Child is clearly Jesus, so we have to ask ourselves, who gave birth to Jesus, well it is clearly Mary

the other figures in that chapter are the Dragon and Michael

who does the Dragon represent? well almost every one says that the Dragon is the Devil
and Michael is Michael the Archangel

so we have the Child representing an individual person
Michael is an individual person
the Dragon is an individual person
(now those two are angelic beings instead of humans, but still individuals)
and then we have the Woman.... who is Israel?
sorry this does not fit the narrative, we are not talking about symbolic abstracts, like we are with the harlot of Babylon or the Beasts described in Daniel
all the other figures in this story are individuals
so the Woman = Israel interpretation looks especially forced, contrived just to dishonor Mary
it is a reactionary theology rather then a theology that rises up from an honest and clear reading of the Scripture

Alithis said:

just for your information ..that woman is israel the 12 stars are the twelve tribes and the child is the saviour who is caught up to god .

sorry to burst the bubble .but there .it done

Click to expand...

That is in heaven, not the political Zionist Israel of today!

Righttruth said:

That is in heaven, not the political Zionist Israel of today!

Click to expand...

the revelation is of the spiritual picture .. the messiah was born forth from israel . the one thing it is certainly not .. is a picture of mary

ah forgot what forum i was in .. i wil leave you to it

Alithis said:

the revelation is of the spiritual picture .. the messiah was born forth from israel . the one thing it is certainly not .. is a picture of mary

Click to expand...

Mary and Zionist Israel are not in the spiritual picture of heavenly Jerusalem.