What Is Wrong With Eastern Orthodoxy?

AureateDawn · Sep 24, 2006

Every denomination has its shortcomings, bickerings, and whatnot. I find it hard to believe EO is nearly perfect. So... out of curiosity (and again, a probable future EO convert), what are some things that are wrong with Eastern Orthodoxy currently?

Thanks! May God bless!

EricTheRed · Sep 24, 2006

Political Stuff. THe lack of one united church in America. Oh and I guess you could throw the toll house mess in there.

Khaleas · Sep 24, 2006

A bunch of humans.... sinners.... guess that about sums it up.

icxn · Sep 24, 2006

Khaleas said:
A bunch of humans.... sinners.... guess that about sums it up.

Except that we are not heretics:

It was said concerning Abba Agathon that some monks came to find him, having heard tell of his great discernment. Wanting to see if he would lose his temper, they said to him, "Aren't you that Agathon who is said to be a fornicator and a proud man?" "Yes, it is very true," he answered. They resumed, "Aren't you that Agathon who is always talking nonsense?" "I am." Again they said, "Aren't you Agathon the heretic?" But at that, he replied, "I am not a heretic." So they asked him, "Tell us why you accepted everything we cast you, but repudiated this last insult." He replied, "The first accusations I take to myself, for that is good for my soul. But heresy is separation from God. Now I have no wish to be separated from God." At this saying they were astonished at his discernment and returned, edified. - The Desert Fathers

eoe · Sep 24, 2006

There is nothing at all wrong with the Church.

The members are all screwed up but the Church is fine.

Mostly it is political. There are some schismatics that freak out over calendar issues. You see - we don't change squat, so even when they wanted to go to the gregorian calendar there were freak outs that still go on today.

Khaleas · Sep 24, 2006

icxn said:
Except that we are not heretics:

It was said concerning Abba Agathon that some monks came to find him, having heard tell of his great discernment. Wanting to see if he would lose his temper, they said to him, "Aren't you that Agathon who is said to be a fornicator and a proud man?" "Yes, it is very true," he answered. They resumed, "Aren't you that Agathon who is always talking nonsense?" "I am." Again they said, "Aren't you Agathon the heretic?" But at that, he replied, "I am not a heretic." So they asked him, "Tell us why you accepted everything we cast you, but repudiated this last insult." He replied, "The first accusations I take to myself, for that is good for my soul. But heresy is separation from God. Now I have no wish to be separated from God." At this saying they were astonished at his discernment and returned, edified. - The Desert Fathers

ByzantineDixie · Sep 24, 2006

eoe said:
There is nothing at all wrong with the Church.

The members are all screwed up but the Church is fine.

Wisdom! eoe hit it head on.

The Church is PERFECT! The unblemished Bride of Christ. The members...ya, I am one and far, far from perfect...that's the rub.

What I find is some of the things that cause difficulties, the calendar issue, the toll house thing, some atonement model debates, the lack of a single American jurisidiction at this time...these really don't manifest themselves as problems on the local level. I think a person could attend worship and participate in the life of the Church without having any of this impact them or their journey. The Internet, however, makes these things more visible...sometimes though like viewing things with a magnifying glass which tends to distort the picture.

AureateDawn · Sep 24, 2006

Well... one thing I can find is that EOs don't agree on the view of Hell. I would consider that of the Church, but that's just me.

Shubunkin · Sep 24, 2006

AnomalousSilence said:
Well... one thing I can find is that EOs don't agree on the view of Hell. I would consider that of the Church, but that's just me.

no, it isn't... it can be a difference of opinion, but the church doesn't split over things like this... and it all gets worked out in the end. Denominational churches split over such things, but the EO does not.

Orthosdoxa · Sep 24, 2006

Hey AS,

I like your style. You share your opinion when it disagrees, but are perfectly tactful and decent about it.

As far as hell... it's a terrible place where those who hate God will suffer. That we all know. We don't want to go there. There is no disagreement. As far as that stupid thread arguing about juridical vs. therapeutic views, who cares? We're just a bunch of dorks on the internet, aint none of us infallible, aint none of us even truly a saint yet. Yes, there are quotes from early church fathers that seem to support opposing views, that some people have attacked each other with. The ECF's were not infallible either. My former priest used to say, "85% of the saints are right 85% of the time." My current priest explained it to me in such a way that it really made sense... that the views can work together, not oppose each other. God is not so po'd and waiting to fry us, and He even loves those in hell, because His love is everywhere. Yet the Scriptures make it clear too, that justice is involved. I can't explain it as well as my priest did, but I'm content that both views are valid. We can only understand so much - the rest is mystery. I mean, who can really understand the things of God, the things of eternity?

As far as what is wrong with EO- nothing wrong with Christ's Church. Lots of stuff wrong with us sinners who comprise it.

LK

zhilan · Sep 24, 2006

Sometimes the insense makes my nose get stuffy. That's my only complaint. =)

Akathist · Sep 24, 2006

ByzantineDixie said:
Wisdom! eoe hit it head on.

The Church is PERFECT! The unblemished Bride of Christ. The members...ya, I am one and far, far from perfect...that's the rub.
.

I am one too, and really far from perfect.

The Church is perfect and unblemished.

The fact that we have "mysteries" is part of that perfection. Who said that an incomprehensible God is going to set up a perfectly comprehensible system? There is nothing wrong with us humans having no clear understanding of everything about the Kingdom of God. We will have eternity there to learn the mysteries (or maybe these mysteries are never learned.)

By having mysteries we have less pride and it helps us not get all superior with others which in turn, helps us grow in virtue. The Church therefore is made more perfect by mysteries.

Shubunkin · Sep 24, 2006

Xenia Rose said:
I am one too, and really far from perfect.

The Church is perfect and unblemished.

The fact that we have "mysteries" is part of that perfection. Who said that an incomprehensible God is going to set up a perfectly comprehensible system? There is nothing wrong with us humans having no clear understanding of everything about the Kingdom of God. We will have eternity there to learn the mysteries (or maybe these mysteries are never learned.)

By having mysteries we have less pride and it helps us not get all superior with others which in turn, helps us grow in virtue. The Church therefore is made more perfect by mysteries.

I always wondered why other churches argued about such things endlesslly, when it is a mystery. We just aren't not enlightened enough to understand everything, and the arguing about it is pointless.

AureateDawn · Sep 24, 2006

Speaking of, what is the point of incense? I got some today since I know Orthodox use them in prayer. So... what are they for, and do I use them in every prayer or what?

Akathist · Sep 24, 2006

AnomalousSilence said:
Speaking of, what is the point of incense? I got some today since I know Orthodox use them in prayer. So... what are they for, and do I use them in every prayer or what?

I don't use incense every time I pray but it does help me to focus when I do. I like to use it for my evening prayers espeically.

It is not a requirement though and I know some Orthodox who never use it at home.

Psalm 141 I think says something about letting our prayers rise up as incense. So incense has long been connected to prayer. In Revelations there is a reference to incense related to worship. Incense is a way of showing honor to God.

DonVA · Sep 24, 2006

Incense is also considered to be a sweet smelling burnt offering, I think.

My son told me today during coffee hour that my eyes are "shinier" in church than at any other time. I asked what he meant, and he explained that it looked like I was about to cry.

I told him that sometimes it is a little overwhelming for me, knowing what I sinner I am and have always been, to be standing in such a perfect place.

Have you visited an Orthodox Church yet, Anamalous?

repentant · Sep 24, 2006

Incense is one of the Ancient Jewish practices that was commanded by God, that still remained in Christianity. It is a symbol of our prayers rising to heaven as spoken of in Revelations and elsewhere..

ufonium2 · Sep 24, 2006

I have a "no incense" rule in my house, because I can't stand the smell. It drives my husband crazy, because he loves it and would probably burn it in the car if he thought about it. So, definitely not a requirement.

AureateDawn · Sep 24, 2006

Should evening prayer (for example) last as long as the incense? Those suckers last a while!

DonVA · Sep 24, 2006

Sometimes I finish long before the charcoal stops burning (if it burns like it should... that quick-light stuff tends to burn out fast!), so I let it continue to burn on my icon corner, or I'll carry it to other rooms to cense the house.

What Is Wrong With Eastern Orthodoxy?

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