What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[John Mullally]

The eternal destiny of mankind has always lain in the hands of God. God sets the standard and while Satan may lead people astray, that doesn't limit God in His efforts among men (as evidenced by the testimony of both Old and New Testaments).

Saying that "the eternal destiny of mankind has always lain in the hands of God" sounds fatalistic - maybe that's not what you meant. There are plenty of marching orders to believers in the NT.

Luke 18:1 Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart,​

 

[P1LGR1M]

Saying that "the eternal destiny of mankind has always lain in the hands of God" sounds fatalistic - maybe that's not what you meant. There are plenty of marching orders to believers in the NT.

Luke 18:1 Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart,​

That is what I meant: it is God that created man with the intent that we should be a people unto Him. He provided the means for that to be possible.

Nothing Satan has done or will do removes God as the Sovereign over all of Creation.

Men themselves are quite capable of committing evil that hinders God's desire for men to be saved without Satan being involved. One can blame their actions on Satan but the fact remains that Satan is not omnipresent. Nor is He omnipotent.

When God is bringing a man under conviction for sin, righteousness, and judgment—Satan isn't there convincing men to ignore God and the Gospel. Men are completely capable of doing that themselves.

If by "fatalistic" you mean a hyper-election view, that is not the position I take. While natural man has no inherent ability to understand the spiritual things of God, when the Comforter enlightens the natural man he then makes a decision to receive or reject Christ. Men do have a choice to make, but they cannot make that choice apart from God's intervention in their understanding.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Yes since the whole world lies by default under the power of the evil one. 1 John 5:19

I look at it as similar to, "The whole country lies under the power of corrupt politicians," but the whole country (the people) is not completely fooled by them.

We do have believers that seek to raise their children up in the way they should go, and that is often hindered by the workings of the devil, but in large part we see men who play a big part in the corruption that takes place in the day to day affairs of the world.

Even in Christ's day, we see that the religion that arose out of the Covenant of Law with Israel was in large part, in my view, a result of men. I don't think I would blame Satan for their misunderstanding and wresting of the principles set forth in the Law.

It's too easy to say "The devil made me do it," lol. Truly Satan has played a large part in the corruption of God's creation, but let's give credit where credit is due: man will receive no pardon because of Satan's role in this world. He will be held accountable for his own words and deeds.


God bless.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Saying that "the eternal destiny of mankind has always lain in the hands of God" sounds fatalistic - maybe that's not what you meant. There are plenty of marching orders to believers in the NT.

Luke 18:1 Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart,​

Double predestination is fatalistic in calvinism's divine determinism and their view of sovereignty.

 

[zoidar]

Limited atonement means that while Christs sacrifice would have been sufficient to cover the sins of every person ever born, His death and resurrection is specific to/for the elect of God (Those God gave into His Hand), and only those people.

As R. L. Dabney has said, "Christ's sacrifice has purchased and provided for the effectual calling of the elect, with all the graces which insure their faith, repentance, justification, perseverance, and glorification.

It simply is arguing against universal salvation (Hitler etc going to heaven).

Most Christians believe in limited atonement.

Few, if any believe that everyone ever born is going to heaven regardless of what they did or believed in their life, and if Jesus paid the price for Hitler's sins, then Hitler would be in heaven. In the end, we believe in 1 of 3 things - that everyone goes to heaven regardless of what they did or believed in their life, that Jesus' death on the cross was ineffective (Hitler's sins were just too much for even Jesus' blood to cover), or that atonement is of a limited nature (only for the elect).

Most believe it's limited as a result. It's just common sense really. "Whole world" just means some people out of the Jews and Gentiles both, not every single individual ever born.

Hi again,

There is a difference how you view the atonement. Lutherans believe the atonement is universal (even Hitler's sins were paid), yet not applied universally (not applied to Hitler since he doesn't receive the payment).

I believe the atoning sacrifice is universal (a payment for all sin), but the atonement as the effect of the atoning sacrifice on the individual is limited to those who believe (your personal sins are "paid" as you believe).

And you (most Calvinists?) believe the atoning sacrifice and the atonement are limited (there is only a payment for the sins of the elect and only the sins of the elect were paid). So there are different options without going over to universialism.

God bless!

 

[John Mullally]

The eternal destiny of mankind has always lain in the hands of God. God sets the standard and while Satan may lead people astray, that doesn't limit God in His efforts among men (as evidenced by the testimony of both Old and New Testaments.

That is what I meant: it is God that created man with the intent that we should be a people unto Him. He provided the means for that to be possible.

Nothing Satan has done or will do removes God as the Sovereign over all of Creation.

Men themselves are quite capable of committing evil that hinders God's desire for men to be saved without Satan being involved. One can blame their actions on Satan but the fact remains that Satan is not omnipresent. Nor is He omnipotent.

When God is bringing a man under conviction for sin, righteousness, and judgment—Satan isn't there convincing men to ignore God and the Gospel. Men are completely capable of doing that themselves.

Satan knew God, served Him, and then rebelled drawing many with him all without anyone lying and tempting Him to do so. So there is quite a difference between Satan's and Adam's rebellion. Per 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, Satan is working actively to keep men from receiving the Gospel.

2 Corinthians 4:3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.​

If by "fatalistic" you mean a hyper-election view, that is not the position I take. While natural man has no inherent ability to understand the spiritual things of God, when the Comforter enlightens the natural man he then makes a decision to receive or reject Christ. Men do have a choice to make, but they cannot make that choice apart from God's intervention in their understanding.

I agree that the conviction of the Holy Spirit (per John 16:8) is necessary to enlighten men. And I agree that men do have a choice to make - which then makes them accountable to accept or reject the Gospel. And if man's receiving the salvation provided by Christ's sacrifice is dependent on man's choice, then it is not purely "in the hands of God" and saying "The eternal destiny of mankind has always lain in the hands of God." is misleading.

 

[Der Alte]

That is what I meant: it is God that created man with the intent that we should be a people unto Him. He provided the means for that to be possible.
Nothing Satan has done or will do removes God as the Sovereign over all of Creation.
Men themselves are quite capable of committing evil that hinders God's desire for men to be saved without Satan being involved. One can blame their actions on Satan but the fact remains that Satan is not omnipresent. Nor is He omnipotent.
When God is bringing a man under conviction for sin, righteousness, and judgment—Satan isn't there convincing men to ignore God and the Gospel. Men are completely capable of doing that themselves.
If by "fatalistic" you mean a hyper-election view, that is not the position I take. While natural man has no inherent ability to understand the spiritual things of God, when the Comforter enlightens the natural man he then makes a decision to receive or reject Christ. Men do have a choice to make, but they cannot make that choice apart from God's intervention in their understanding.
God bless.

God Himself said that very clearly in Jeremiah 13
Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s express will, clearly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist.
It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
…..This passage very much speaks to God’s sovereign will, and man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.

· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Note, verse 14, God said “I will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.”

 

[Paul4JC]

Saying that "the eternal destiny of mankind has always lain in the hands of God" sounds fatalistic - maybe that's not what you meant. There are plenty of marching orders to believers in the NT.

Luke 18:1 Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart,​

It is fatalistic, and worse than Hinduism in some ways as in Hinduism you still have a chance of coming out of reincarnation cycles (Moksha).

You take a lawyer's interpretation of what the Bible teaches and this is what you get, a big mess, with little inspiration.

 

[John Mullally]

It is fatalistic, and worse than Hinduism in some ways as in Hinduism you still have a chance of coming out of reincarnation cycles (Moksha).

You take a lawyer's interpretation of what the Bible teaches and this is what you get, a big mess, with little inspiration.

Given the title of the OP, I assume that in "You take a lawyer's interpretation of what the Bible teaches and this is what you get" you are talking of Calvin.

Unfortunately, Calvin's influence has spread far beyond just the Reformed churches and has undermined the Gospel message by throwing in a caveat - how do you know whether or not God chose you to be elect long beforehand?

Questions to Calvinists: How can Peter offer salvation in Acts 2:38-39 conditionally to the crowd (based upon repentance) when it is only available to some?

 

[All Becomes New]

God Himself said that very clearly in Jeremiah 13
Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s express will, clearly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist.
It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
…..This passage very much speaks to God’s sovereign will, and man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.

· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Note, verse 14, God said “I will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.”

Are you a compatibilist? It sounds like you are, but wanted to check on this.

 

[Der Alte]

Are you a compatibilist? It sounds like you are, but wanted to check on this.

Don't know what you mean by that.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Satan knew God, served Him, and then rebelled drawing many with him all without anyone lying and tempting Him to do so. So there is quite a difference between Satan's and Adam's rebellion. Per 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, Satan is working actively to keep men from receiving the Gospel.

Actually, Adam was not deceived, Eve was:


1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


In my own speculation, I think it's possible Adam ate of the fruit because he loved his wife. Sounds silly, I know, but he knew her fate was sealed and it may be he chose to share her fate.

Possibly he was still hurting from the first operation.

2 Corinthians 4:3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

So you honestly think that Satan can cancel out the Ministry of Conviction of the Comforter?

I see no reason to think so, nor do I see that blinding of the minds of people is limited to being blindedd to the Gospel, it's a general matter of his imfluence in all spheres of life.

Lastly, it is God that has brought blindness on Israel, not Satan:


Romans 11:7-8
King James Version

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.


It's just my opinion you are giving Satan a little more credit than he deserves.

I agree that the conviction of the Holy Spirit (per John 16:8) is necessary to enlighten men. And I agree that men do have a choice to make - which then makes them accountable to accept or reject the Gospel. And if man's receiving the salvation provided by Christ's sacrifice is dependent on man's choice, then it is not purely "in the hands of God" and saying "The eternal destiny of mankind has always lain in the hands of God." is misleading.

It is purely in the hands of God to effect His convicting ministry in the lives of men. I think He does so for every man, but it still remains—He is the One that does it.

That is why salvation is by grace. Apart from God's grace no man would be saved, because no man would be seeking God to begin with.

I reiterate: the eternal destiny of man has always lain in the hands of God.

Even when that eternal destiny is Eternal Damnation:


Hebrews 10:26-27
King James Version

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


Old Testament unbelievers are contrasted with New Testament unbelievers here, and while it is true they have for themselves chosen to reject God's will, the fact remains that they would not have rejected His will if He had not first given it to them.


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Why the judgment of the New Testament unbeliever is worse is, first, the death in view under the Law was physical, whereas the death in view here is the Second Death, the Lake of Fire.

Secondly, the commandment here is to believe in Jesus Christ, rather than follow the Law.

Third, it is not something that has a mediator between the giving of the commandment and the sinner, but is direct revelation from God Himself, the Spirit of Grace, Who is none other than the Holy Ghost sent down from Heaven, the Comforter.

Fourth, they are directly rejecting Christ rather than the picture prophecy of Christ as given in the Law. They "crucify to themselves Christ again" because they return to the sacrifices of the Law.

Fifth, they reject the New Covenant in favor of the Old Covenant, the Covenant of Law.

Yes, there will be degrees of punishment in Hell, and this is consistent with the Living God Who has always judged men based on their response to His revealed will.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

God Himself said that very clearly in Jeremiah 13
Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s express will, clearly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist.
It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
…..This passage very much speaks to God’s sovereign will, and man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.

· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Note, verse 14, God said “I will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.”

I am not sure exactly what it is you are trying to say and why it would be relevant to my own statement.

Man has no "free will" inr egards to a salvific context, because mankind is born separatred from God and thus has no ability to understand God's will for their lives. Furthermore no man would seek after God apart from God explaining to them why it is they should do this.

We have to distinguish between a temporal context and that which is eternal.

Example:


Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

(temporal and within man's capacity)


Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

(Eternal and outside of man's capacity)

While Israel could and oftentimes did fulfill God's will (Luke 1:5-6) it still remained that he was separated from God in an eternal context that has as a remedy the Eternal Indwelling of God.

Only God can place His spirit within men (Ezekiel 36:27), and nothing man can do can make that happen.

Responding to the Gospel is not man taking his eternal destiny into his own hands, nor does he effect the salvation that takes place when men respond to the convicting ministry of God.


God bless.

 

[John Mullally]

So you honestly think that Satan can cancel out the Ministry of Conviction of the Comforter?

I see no reason to think so, nor do I see that blinding of the minds of people is limited to being blindedd to the Gospel, it's a general matter of his imfluence in all spheres of life.

Lastly, it is God that has brought blindness on Israel, not Satan:

Old Testament unbelievers are contrasted with New Testament unbelievers here, and while it is true they have for themselves chosen to reject God's will, the fact remains that they would not have rejected His will if He had not first given it to them.

Given, the Holy Spirit's influence (John 16:8) and Satan's influence (2 Corinthians 4:3-4), a choice is left to men.

 

[John Mullally]

Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Notice in the verse you quoted the receiving a new heart and a new spirit from God follows men choosing to cast away their transgressions. The second half of the verse makes no sense, if man cannot cast away their transgressions. Additionally, God will no do for man what He commands men to do - in this case cast away from you all your transgressions.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Given, the Holy Spirit's influence (John 16:8) and Satan's influence (2 Corinthians 4:3-4), a choice is left to men.

And it is because man is conceived and born separated from God, not having His Spirit—that those who are saved are said to be a minority.

Man's nature is one of rebellion, and unfortunately few there be that will be saved.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Notice in the verse you quoted the receiving a new heart and a new spirit from God follows men choosing to cast away their transgressions. The second half of the verse makes no sense, if man cannot cast away their transgressions. Additionally, God will no do for man what He commands men to do - in this case cast away from you all your transgressions.

That is the point, John: this is a temporally based context where men do have a choice.

This...


Ezekiel 36:27
King James Version

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


...is not.

God states "I will," not "You do so."

And it is His Spirit that causes men to walk in His statutes and keep His judgments—not because they choose to.

That is Eternal Redemption as opposed to men under Law awaiting the promises. All Old Testament Saints died not receiving those promises:


Hebrews 11:13
King James Version

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


Hebrews 11:39-40
King James Version

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


They died before God fulfilled His promise to put His Spirit within them (us) that we might walk in His statutes and keep His judgments.

They were not made perfect (complete) without us, meaning the completion promised did not take place in their day.

The writer goes on to say...


Hebrews 12:22-23
King James Version

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


The Old Testament Saints were made perfect (complete) after their deaths when Christ died in their stead. Not before.

We are the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn (Christ), they are the spirits that resided in Hades/Sheol until Christ's death.


God bless.

 

[All Becomes New]

Don't know what you mean by that.

Compatibilism is the idea that Free Will is compatible with Determinism.

 

[John Mullally]

That is the point, John: this is a temporally based context where men do have a choice.

This...


Ezekiel 36:27
King James Version

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


...is not.

God states "I will," not "You do so."


And it is His Spirit that causes men to walk in His statutes and keep His judgments—not because they choose to.

That is Eternal Redemption as opposed to men under Law awaiting the promises. All Old Testament Saints died not receiving those promises:

OK. I think I am now understanding your position, but maybe not.

Correct me if I am wrong: When man responds positively to the conviction of the Holy Spirit during the preaching of the Gospel, God changes his nature (per Ezekiel 18:11 and Acts 2:38-39). And per Ezekiel 36:27, only those whose nature are changed are able "to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them". If that is your position, we happen to agree on those points.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Hi again,

There is a difference how you view the atonement. Lutherans believe the atonement is universal (even Hitler's sins were paid), yet not applied universally (not applied to Hitler since he doesn't receive the payment).

I believe the atoning sacrifice is universal (a payment for all sin), but the atonement as the effect of the atoning sacrifice on the individual is limited to those who believe (your personal sins are "paid" as you believe).

And you (most Calvinists?) believe the atoning sacrifice and the atonement are limited (there is only a payment for the sins of the elect and only the sins of the elect were paid). So there are different options without going over to universialism.

God bless!

Ditto