What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[RickReads]

The NT disagrees with you in Romans 8:7-8, 1 Corinthians 2:14, because the unregenerate man does not have the Holy Spirit.

Sort of exposes the Calvin contradiction. You have to repent to receive the Holy Spirit and get regenerated.

 

[Clare73]

That's why I keep trying to straighten you out. Yer a bent nail.

I'm bent with Scripture. . .you'll have to straighten Scripture first before I can be straightened.

 

[Clare73]

Sort of exposes the Calvin contradiction.
You have to repent to receive the Holy Spirit and get regenerated.

Well. . .you're cute and fun and all. . .

But you have failed to address and demonstrate the error of John 3:3-8,
where Jesus presents complete spiritual inability prior to regeneration,

and you have failed to address and demonstrate the error of Romans 8:7-8, 1 Corinthians 2:14,
which presents the absolutely complete spiritual inability of unregenerate man prior to the new birth.

Your issue is with the NT, not "Calvinism."

 

[RickReads]

Previously litigated. . .which you have failed to address.

Nothing to litigate, it's kindergarten gospel.

 

[Clare73]

Nothing to litigate, it's kindergarten gospel.

Well. . .you're cute and fun and all. . .

But you have failed to address and demonstrate the error of John 3:3-8,
where Jesus presents complete spiritual inability prior to regeneration,

and you have failed to address and demonstrate the error of Romans 8:7-8, 1 Corinthians 2:14,
which presents the absolutely complete spiritual inability of unregenerate man prior to the new birth.

Your issue is with the NT, not "Calvinism."

 

[Mark Quayle]

Unregenerated people believe in God and have a conscience. You don't have to be saved to repent.
You take Calvinism's favorite verse out of context. Romans 8 is post-salvation so I dunno what you think I`m supposed to say about it. The rest of your statement seems ad hominem to me.

Regret is not repentance. Without a changed will, compliance is not obedience. The mind of flesh will not submit, nor can it do so.

 

[RickReads]

Well. . .you're cute and fun and all. . .

But you have failed to address and demonstrate the error of John 3:3-8,
where Jesus presents complete spiritual inability prior to regeneration,

and you have failed to address and demonstrate the error of Romans 8:7-8, 1 Corinthians 2:14,
which presents the absolutely complete spiritual inability of unregenerate man prior to the new birth.

Your issue is with the NT, not "Calvinism."

I completely disagree.

 

[RickReads]

Regret is not repentance. Without a changed will, compliance is not obedience. The mind of flesh will not submit, nor can it do so.

I disagree with your opinion as any Arminian would. Shouldn't be too big of a shock. But that's one of the things I read about Prevenient Grace. It`s close to the Calvin idea about regeneration. But not quite the same.

Post-1507 is the best explanation I have for a schoolboy like you.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Sort of exposes the Calvin contradiction. You have to repent to receive the Holy Spirit and get regenerated.

Yes as we read below both testaments have a consistent order.

Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.


Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?

conclusion: faith, belief,confession, repentance precedes the new birth, regeneration, salvation.

hope this helps !!!

 

[John Mullally]

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.

Thank you! I have believed this, but I did not know there was such a wealth of scriptural support on it!

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Thank you! I have believed this, but I did not know there was such a wealth of scriptural support on it!

I have more

 

[Clare73]

Well. . .you're cute and fun and all. . .
But you have failed to address and demonstrate the error of John 3:3-8,
where Jesus presents complete spiritual inability prior to regeneration,
and you have failed to address and demonstrate the error of Romans 8:7-8, 1 Corinthians 2:14,
which presents the absolutely complete spiritual inability of unregenerate man prior to the new birth.

Your issue is with the NT, not "Calvinism."

I completely disagree.

Assertion without Biblical demonstration remains assertion without Biblical merit.

 

[misput]

According to scriptures, Rom. 1 & 2, everyone is born or acquires a knowledge of the law (knowledge of good and evil) and this is what leads us to believe or rebel.

According to some, John 3:16 should read, "for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever He chooses to believe will have eternal life". In my opinion it is a two way street, not either or. In the walk of life we at some point, one way or another, meet God and either turn and walk with Him or continue on our way into who knows what. No one knows for sure what is meant by hell. Just as we do not know the details of Heaven. In the case of Jacob and Esau, some say Jacob was chosen to go to heaven and Esau was chosen to go to hell, that is not what the scripture teaches. Some say Pharo, Judas, Annias & Saffira. even Adam & Eve were chosen to go to hell, that is not what the scripture teaches. Some undoubtedly go to hell (whatever that is) but it is not His choice for them. That is not the God we serve who loves all His children and desires us to be saved. All this chicken and egg debate is good for passing the time of day but does it really ever prove anything? Not in my opinion. As the musician Leonard Cohen sings the mystery of life is: we are too dumb, dumb, dumb, too dumb------- the fact we cannot agree on such a simple thing only proves just how dumb we really are.

 

[RickReads]

According to scriptures, Rom. 1 & 2, everyone is born or acquires a knowledge of the law (knowledge of good and evil) and this is what leads us to believe or rebel.

According to some, John 3:16 should read, "for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever He chooses to believe will have eternal life". In my opinion it is a two way street, not either or. In the walk of life we at some point, one way or another, meet God and either turn and walk with Him or continue on our way into who knows what. No one knows for sure what is meant by hell. Just as we do not know the details of Heaven. In the case of Jacob and Esau, some say Jacob was chosen to go to heaven and Esau was chosen to go to hell, that is not what the scripture teaches. Some say Pharo, Judas, Annias & Saffira. even Adam & Eve were chosen to go to hell, that is not what the scripture teaches. Some undoubtedly go to hell (whatever that is) but it is not His choice for them. That is not the God we serve who loves all His children and desires us to be saved. All this chicken and egg debate is good for passing the time of day but does it really ever prove anything? Not in my opinion. As the musician Leonard Cohen sings the mystery of life is: we are too dumb, dumb, dumb, too dumb------- the fact we cannot agree on such a simple thing only proves just how dumb we really are.

I appreciate that, I`ve always told me I was a dumdum.

 

[enoob57]

The sweet little toddler is just learning about sin but has no clue what it is all about yet. He is still innocent.

yes but you can observe the self centered aspect in their behavior as this will guarantee they will sin!

 

[misput]

yes but you can observe the self centered aspect in their behavior as this will guarantee they will sin!

Yes and you can also observe the traits of Gods love in them. It is not either or.

 

[misput]

Yes and you can also observe the traits of Gods love in them. It is not either or.

Jesus said unless we become like them we cannot seethe kingdom.

 

[Clare73]

Jesus said unless we become like them we cannot seethe kingdom.

Like them, how?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

@ReverendRV did you give up this forum too ?

 

[misput]

Like them, how?

Loving, trusting their parents even though they do not understand every thing that is going on in their world. Certainly not wise in their own conceit.