What is wrong with Calvinism ?

ReverendRV said:

Amen...

I wouldn't say the Indwelling of the Spirit Conflates to Regeneration though; that's just his Presence. Regeneration is the Act of making YOU a New Creature. We become a New Creature by receiving a New Heart and a New spirit; a living Human spirit...

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The Bible calls it the circumcision made without hands and it is the work of the Holy Spirit when He cleans up His new house.

Clare73 said:

So those who have not been appointed do not repent and believe.
While those who have been appointed do repent and believe.
So what does "being appointed" mean?

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It is a prophecy bingo buzz word.

Oscarr said:

It is a prophecy bingo buzz word.

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I have a bingo.

Clare73 said:

In the text, didn't the appointment to eternal life occur before they believed?

All who had been appointed (prior) believed (currently).

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Of course, I don't get your questioning me about that since I have not even hinted otherwise, I have only been trying to show you that God sent His Son into the world to save sinners who believe on Him as their Savior. I could just as well say that Jesus was appointed as the Savior of the world to save those who by faith in Him are appointed unto eternal life for believing in Him. Here are a few translations of the Acts 13:48
KJ21 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the Word of the Lord; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
ASV And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
AMP When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying [praising and giving thanks for] the word of the Lord; and all those who had been appointed (designated, ordained) to eternal life [by God] believed [in Jesus as the Christ and their Savior].
AMPC And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior).
BRG And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
CSB When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and honored the word of the Lord, and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.
CEB When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and honored the Lord’s word. Everyone who was appointed for eternal life believed,
CJB The Gentiles were very happy to hear this. They honored the message about the Lord, and as many as had been appointed to eternal life came to trust.
CEV This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.
DARBY And [those of] the nations, hearing it, rejoiced, and glorified the word of the Lord, and believed, as many as were ordained to eternal life.
DLNT And the Gentiles, having heard it, were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord. And all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Had none of them believed they would not have fulfilled the way of salvation, by grace through faith, that's all it is implying. Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

ReverendRV said:

Amen...

I wouldn't say the Indwelling of the Spirit Conflates to Regeneration though; that's just his Presence. Regeneration is the Act of making YOU a New Creature. We become a New Creature by receiving a New Heart and a New spirit; a living Human spirit...

Click to expand...

Alrighty then. I`ll try it like this.

Matt 13
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Here we see that the seed of saving faith is the gospel/word. This is the point where it all begins. Before being seeded we are in a state of depravity. Salvation is not possible if we have not been seeded. Can't happen. Triple negative.

Clare73 said:

Does it become a reality in those who are not appointed?

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Luke 9:23 If any man will come after Me he must deny himself take up his cross and follow Me.
But all are called to repentance, aren't they? Matt 11:28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

He calls all to repentance.
Revelation 22:17
The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.
John 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
Isa 55:1-3 “Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread, and your labor for that which does not satisfy? Listen diligently to me, and eat what is good, and delight yourselves in rich food. Incline your ear, and come to me; hear, that your soul may live; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant, my steadfast, sure love for David.

Jesus is YHWH said:

Except the Bible never states that and scripture tells us it’s a result of our faith . John 1:12-13.

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However, the right to become children of God refers to the right to share as co-heirs in Christ's own inheritance (Romans 8:17), beginning with our glorified, sinless, perfect bodies at the resurrection. (Romans 8:23).

It's not a statement of regeneration by faith, but of our future after the faith of regeneration.

In the twinkling of an eye (to borrow the Reverend's phrase), we have:

rebirth-->faith-->remission of sin (salvation)-->justification (imputed righteousness)-->adoption (legal right to co-heirship with Christ, John 1:12-13)

iwbswiaihl said:

But all are called to repentance, aren't they? Matt 11:28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

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Is that a yes or no?

iwbswiaihl said:

But all are called to repentance, aren't they? Matt 11:28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

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iwbswiaihl said:

Of course, I don't get your questioning me about that since I have not even hinted otherwise, I have only been trying to show you that God sent His Son into the world to save sinners who believe on Him as their Savior.

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Sorry for the confusion.
The issue there was which came first, regeneration or faith.

My questioning is about the order of those as presented in Acts 13:48.
It presents ordained to eternal life before faith.

RickReads said:

Alrighty then. I`ll try it like this.
Matt 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

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21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

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The good ground being that of regeneration. . .while the ground of the wayside, stony place, no root (i.e., apostasy), etc. being that of unregeneration.

Here we see that the seed of saving faith is the gospel/word. This is the point where it all begins. Before being seeded we are in a state of depravity. Salvation is not possible if we have not been seeded. Can't happen. Triple negative.

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Clare73 said:

The good ground being that of regeneration. . .while the ground of the wayside, stony place and no root (apostasy) being that of unregeneration.

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The ground is your heart, barren of life until you are seeded by the gospel.

Clare73 said:

Sorry for the confusion.
The issue there was which came first, regeneration or faith.

My questioning is about the order of those as presented in Acts 13:48.
It presents ordained to eternal life before faith.

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Faith must come first. Heb 11:6 Without faith it is impossible to please Him for those that come to Him must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those that seek Him. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit. Meaning of the word regeneration by:
Thayer's

1. new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration
   1. hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death
   2. the renovation of the earth after the deluge
   3. the renewal of the world to take place after its destruction by fire, as the Stoics taught
   4. the signal and glorious change of all things (in heaven and earth) for the better, that restoration of the primal and perfect condition of things which existed before the fall of our first parents, which the Jews looked for in connection with the advent of the Messiah, and which Christians expected in connection with the visible return of Jesus from heaven.
   5. other uses
      1. of Cicero's restoration to rank and fortune on his recall from exile
      2. of the restoration of the Jewish nation after exile
      3. of the recovery of knowledge by recollection

Strong's
From G3825 and G1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), that is, (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specifically Messianic restoration: - regeneration.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; 9 it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. 1 Cor 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Gal 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

RickReads said:

The ground is your heart, barren of life until you are seeded by the gospel.

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The unregenerate heart "without the Holy Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for he cannot understand them, and they are foolishness to him," (1 Corinthians 2:14) and he wants no part of foolishness.

There is no seeding of an unregenerate heart.

Clare73 said:

The unregenerate heart "without the Holy Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for he cannot understand them, and they are foolishness to him," (1 Corinthians 2:14) and he wants no part of foolishness.

There is no seeding of an unregenerate heart.

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Take it up with Jesus. He came up with the parable.

RickReads said:

Take it up with Jesus. He came up with the parable.

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I'm not having a problem with the parable, and which I need to take to Jesus.
Paul explains it pretty well (1 Corinthians 2:14).

But thanks anyway.

Clare73 said:

The good ground being that of regeneration. . .while the ground of the wayside, stony place, no root (i.e., apostasy), etc. being that of unregeneration.

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This is not the sense of the parable. The good ground is the right environment which can receive the Gospel and for it to grow and bear fruit. The stony place is where the ground is shallow, speaking of easy believerism without any depth and as soon as problems or persecution comes, there is not enough depth for the Gospel to take root and bear fruit, so the person goes back into the world. The hard path where the birds arrived and take the seed before it can take root are the ones who are presented with the Gospel but immediately reject it.

We are all unregenerate until presented with the Gospel. The three types of ground where the seed of the Gospel falls are the types of people to whom the Gospel comes. The "hard path" people who reject the Gospel remain in their sins. The shallow ones are the ones to "get religion" but don't go on to become fully converted to Christ. The good ground are the ones to joyfully accept the Gospel, repent of the sins, allow the Holy Spirit to fully convert them to Christ and so go on to become fully established and bear fruit.

RickReads said:

Salvation isn't a renewal. You cant renew something you are experiencing for the first time.

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noun: renewal; plural noun: renewals

1. an instance of resuming an activity or state after an interruption.

Oscarr said:

This is not the sense of the parable. The good ground is the right environment which can receive the Gospel and for it to grow and bear fruit. The stony place is where the ground is shallow, speaking of easy believerism without any depth and as soon as problems or persecution comes, there is not enough depth for the Gospel to take root and bear fruit, so the person goes back into the world. The hard path where the birds arrived and take the seed before it can take root are the ones who are presented with the Gospel but immediately reject it.

We are all unregenerate until presented with the Gospel. The three types of ground where the seed of the Gospel falls are the types of people to whom the Gospel comes. The "hard path" people who reject the Gospel remain in their sins. The shallow ones are the ones to "get religion" but don't go on to
become fully converted to Christ. The good ground are the ones to joyfully accept the Gospel, repent of the sins, allow the Holy Spirit to fully convert them to Christ and so go on to become fully established and bear fruit.

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According to NT apostolic teaching, the unregenerate heart, which is "without Holy Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for he cannot understand them, and they are foolishness to him," (1 Corinthians 2:14) and he wants no part of foolishness.

There is no seeding of an unregenerate heart because it has no Holy Spirit, which is what the parable shows.