What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[Receivedgrace]

Calvin's Institutes is a very big book that was reduced in 1905 to TULIP. I have worked through a few of the TULIP and I don't see total depravity is a logical and necessary part of unconditional election. For me, the two are separate issues as are each of the five.

However, by the quote above, if I am convinced of one or more points then by this "all or nothing" the other letters must be self evident. Therefore, by the "necessity" of all or nothing, one being true, all are true. Total Depravity is true, therefore...

If this argument all or nothing is correct, then all 5 are proved on the first T. The T being true, all others naturally follow.

The 5 Points I absolutely agree with are the Sola which is closer to Calvin than TULIP.
Christians are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, as revealed by Scripture alone, to the glory of God alone

The T in total depravity is true in that man cannot save himself and is only capable of sin contaminated works before a righteous and holy God. It does not extend to total inability to respond to the word of God in the presence of the gospel.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I believe it is Irresistible grace. Understood to be if God has elected you to salvation you cannot resist and you will be saved. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Limited atonement is not true only in the sense that Christ's sacrifice was completely sufficient to save every soul that ever was or will be. It is limited in that the sacrifice is only efficacious for those who come to Christ and receive what Christ offers.

the atonement is limited to the elect of those chosen before the foundation of the world and the rest are chosen/elect to eternal damnation. it has nothing to do with receiving anything since neither the elect or damned have any choice to come or not. they were either predestined to come to Christ or be damned eternally.

 

[Receivedgrace]

the atonement is limited to the elect of those chosen before the foundation of the world and the rest are chosen/elect to eternal damnation. it has nothing to do with receiving anything since neither the elect or damned have any choice to come or not. they were either predestined to come to Christ or be damned eternally.

That is where the modern Calvinist deviates from the bible. A lack of understanding of election and predestination.
The bible is replete with accounts of men choosing between obeying God and others turning away from God.

 

[All Glory To God]

The thread is "what is wrong with Calvinism" is it not?
Nothing personal.
You are entitled to your opinion.
It is a scholarly work but since you have not deigned to read it you could not possibly know.
That's a good thing.
Well let's see if we can both learn something.

I have found that all five points of the TULIP are based on the bible. They are almost always misapplied and violated from their context.

Well if this thread is for "scholars" then you should leave it immediately. You don't the sequence of the Reformation. Start with the basics.

I don't need to read an entire thread to see a person making historical inaccuracies.

If you believe the five points of Reformed salvation are incorrect, go ahead and explain why. I don't need to be your debating partner for that.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

That is where the modern Calvinist deviates from the bible. A lack of understanding of election and predestination.
The bible is replete with accounts of men choosing between obeying God and others turning away from God.

ditto

 

[Receivedgrace]

Well if this thread is for "scholars" then you should leave it immediately. You don't the sequence of the Reformation. Start with the basics.

I don't need to read an entire thread to see a person making historical inaccuracies.

If you believe the five points of Reformed salvation are incorrect, go ahead and explain why. I don't need to be your debating partner for that.

Well here again you are on sinking sand. The thread is not about the reformation but Calvinism.
You did not read what I wrote but make a false accusation as a pretense to dishonor me. Scholarly works are useful in understanding difficult concepts. The bible never condemns those who study to be better able to declare the word of God and increase understanding among the people.

 

[Clare73]

the atonement is limited to the elect of those chosen before the foundation of the world and the rest are chosen/elect to eternal damnation. it has nothing to do with receiving anything since neither the elect or damned have any choice to come or not. they were either predestined to come to Christ or be damned eternally.

They freely choose to come. . .no one forced me to come, I freely and voluntarily chose to do so.
My brother freely and voluntarily chose not to do so.

So what is the problem here?

 

[Receivedgrace]

They freely choose to come. . .no one forced me to come, I freely and voluntarily chose to do so.

So what is the problem?

At least highly motivated. The Holy Spirit makes it clear that rejection is not a good choice. John 16:8-11
Some will not come because they do not want to give the pleasures of sin for a season.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

They freely choose to come. . .no one forced me to come, I freely and voluntarily chose to do so.
My brother freely and voluntarily chose not to do so.

So what is the problem here?

Except the elect cannot come until God regenerated them .

 

[Receivedgrace]

Except the elect cannot come until God regenerated them .

Wrong answer.
Not regenerated until they come to know Christ as Savior. Not elect until they are regenerated in Christ. Election is post redemption not a prerequisite. The elect are predestined in Christ.
Eph 1:11-14

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Wrong answer.
Not regenerated until they come to know Christ as Savior. Not elect until they are regenerated in Christ. Election is post redemption not a prerequisite. The elect are predestined in Christ.
Eph 1:11-14

Calvinism teaches regeneration precedes faith and repentance. The dead cannot believe until God gives them life. I know Calvinism well I taught it for 4 decades . I have all the theology books from all the greatest Calvinists since Calvin including his institutes .

 

[Clare73]

Except the elect cannot come until God regenerated them .

No one comes until God regenerates them.

We are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1). . .the spiritually dead don't spiritually see, hear or come (1 Corinthians 2:14; Romans 8:7-8; John 3:3-8).

 

[Receivedgrace]

Calvinism teaches regeneration precedes faith and repentance. The dead cannot believe until God gives them life. I know Calvinism well I taught it for 4 decades . I have all the theology books from all the greatest Calvinists since Calvin including his institutes .

Calvinism indeed teaches what you say but the bible does not. I'm going to go with the word of God on this one.
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Not just the elect but every man. The word written, the word flesh, and the word Spirit wall work in perfect unity to bring men to Christ. Not all will come as John 3:19-20 attest.

 

[Receivedgrace]

Calvinism teaches regeneration precedes faith and repentance. The dead cannot believe until God gives them life. I know Calvinism well I taught it for 4 decades . I have all the theology books from all the greatest Calvinists since Calvin including his institutes .

I have one book from God that says you are in error.

 

[Clare73]

.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

No one comes until God regenerates them.

We are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1). . .the spiritually dead don't spiritually see, hear or come (1 Corinthians 2:14; Romans 8:7-8; John 3:3-8).

lol I know that’s Calvinism but it’s no longer what I believe

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I have one book from God that says you are in error.

Same here with Calvinism

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Calvinism indeed teaches what you say but the bible does not. I'm going to go with the word of God on this one.
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Not just the elect but every man. The word written, the word flesh, and the word Spirit wall work in perfect unity to bring men to Christ. Not all will come as John 3:19-20 attest.

I agree there are contradictions with Calvinism and scripture

 

[Clare73]

No one comes until God regenerates them.

We are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1). . .the spiritually dead don't spiritually see, hear or come (1 Corinthians 2:14; Romans 8:7-8; John 3:3-8).

lol I know that’s Calvinism but it’s no longer what I believe

Good to know that you realize Calvin was Scriptural.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Good to know that you realize Calvin was Scriptural.

On some things yes and others no