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So did you mean, "how would God do it?" Or what did you mean?More opinions, non responsive.
All things work together for the greater glory of God.If they could have sinned without the serpent, the serpent had no purpose
The devil made her do it, God did not accept that, neither did He accept Adams excuse, the woman that you gave me. Which only leaves one option, they chose to disobey and like God told Cain, if you choose to do well, you will be accepted, if not, sin lies at the door and desires to have you. These are the facts, any conclusions that dispute them are missing something.Oh? The Devil made her do it?
The Devil is one powerful trickster, luring good folks away from God who is either threatening or pleading helplessly.
It was in the nature of Eve to succumb to temptation. And the lure, if it had been a handful of dirt that was the lure, it may have tempted a worm but not a man.
It is man's nature to do what Adam and Eve did.
I will grant that evil is the privation of good. However, when God gathered the light into the point we call the sun and there was darkness all around, it was God's creation and God's will that created both light and dark.
It is the Sovereign Will of God that determines all things, light dark, sin evil and the distribution of same according to His plan and His good pleasure.
A worm has free will only within the limits of his nature and circumstance. That is what makes him a worm. His 'free will" choices are inherent in the nature and natural habitat of worm. A worm can do and be no other.
Man can only do what a man can do, he cannot will otherwise due to nature and circumstance.
Actually I am adding something.These are the facts, any conclusions that dispute them are missing something.
You simply do not understand what the fruit or the snake is, which would help you to understand. If I told you, you would not believe it. In some post's you get very close, in others very far away.Actually I am adding something.
I used the analogy of "gravity good, things fall down bad" therefore gravity, being good, did not cause "fall down bad"
I see this argument that "God being good, God did not create evil"
The argument that I would add is that "things falling down is bad" is entirely subjective opinion. Things falling down is actually a very good thing when a person gets into space with everything in free fall.
Adam could obey or not obey, but whether it was necessary for Adam to do what he did, therefore, compelled is the question. If I decide to move to Kansas City, my life will be a Kansas City story. If I don't, there is an entirely different story. Only one story is ever realized so I can't know what would have happened if I had moved to Kansas City.
We can't know what would have happened if Adam had not eaten the Apple. We only know the story that he did and that ultimately is the Will of God. I don't believe that Adam was "free" to eat or not eat. Free to eat or not eat is not so tempting and so convenient, the fruit the serpent, Eve all gathered together.
If the fruit had been a handful of dirt, then I would be more inclined to believe that Eve was listening, paying attention and actually considering the consequences. As it is, hand a person a ripe juicy fruit on a warm summer day and the person will most likely take a bite, merely hearing God and Satan as a pleasant buzzing mixed with the hum of the bees.
Eve slid into that too easily...and then the rest of the story
Meanwhile Zwingli had something to say about God and evil so I am going to do some research.
You simply do not understand what the fruit or the snake is, which would help you to understand. If I told you, you would not believe it. In some post's you get very close, in others very far away.
All things work together for the greater glory of God.
My point is, who is the boss around here?
The serpent was not self generating because God being good, there was an evil vacuum in the universe. Satan just filled a void in God's creation, don't you know? Wonder what other mushrooms are growing around here in the darkness and vacuum where God forgot to create
Speak of the Devil, Lucifer's sin was pride and pride is evident in most arguments proclaiming free will.
Lucifer is bound and damned for all the freedom and free will he lays claim to.
Further: to argue that "gravity is good, things falling down is bad" therefore it must be something else, an evil spirit, that makes things fall down because it couldn't possibly be gravity, because gravity is nothing but good" is a patented absurdity.
People deal with sovereign forces (air gravity) over which they don't have free will and yet when it comes to God, suddenly the idea of anything having Absolute Sovereignty or restricting their personal prerogatives is an unconscionable and foreign concept.
That view of marriage is far from the only valid one. Years ago, and still nowadays, in some cultures, arranged marriages was the norm, and they were more 'successful' (by numbers, anyhow) than the current norm.
Yet your view hasn't changed the facts. Further, the perceived success of results is no measure of the validity of the interpretation of scripture on the matter. But as far as practicality goes, your view has no advantage over mine. God is the one driving both of us, but I think myself happier than you because I KNOW that God is the one in control of not only results, but the very situation in which I find myself. I have no excuse; and I have no recourse, but God himself.
Maybe you will recall me telling someone about the song by the Christian rock band, Love Song, called "Welcome Back", where they have a line about returning to Christ, "...and you have all that lost time to make up for...". I grew up in that mentality, where God has my life mapped out and it is up to me to follow that map, and where I fail, I have to make up for lost time. But I see it is not that way at all. My life moves at God's rate and pleasure, not mine. Where I am is where he intended for me to be at that moment. Nothing but what he predestined for me will happen. The storms, darkness and fog of life are by HIS plan. Nothing can separate me from him. My failures and setbacks are all within his plan. These are not, as far as his plan is concerned, a set back or failure. But they do teach me to depend on him and to walk in him.
I know what you mean about the rift between you and Jesus, the sadness, the pain and even despair. But no, obedience is not ACCOMPLISHING, it is about pursuit. Wholehearted, definitely a decision, no excuses. It is not, (at least from my POV), about results to present to God; those are already his. But the pursuit, which can only be by the indwelling Spirit of God or it is not true, is never lukewarm.
In the years of questions, fears, tears, sorrow, despair and even near madness (or so it seemed to me at times), and agonized prayer and Bible reading, this (monergism, and the like) is the only thing in the end that makes sense to me. Monergism includes, to my mind, not just salvation but all the subsequent walk with God. I can't do this. But in Christ I can do anything. And monergism keeps good company with the simple logic of predestination and full causation.
Like I said before, I didn't even know what I had come to believe was Reformed Theology or Calvinism, until I came on some reading from them, and was told so by some friends. All I knew of Calvinism was the caricature, that they deny real choice.
That's true in all marriages.I know there are other types of marriages. Still I like the picture I gave. What is meant by more 'successful'? Less divorces? There may be other reasons they stick together than the marriage being good.
Hm, what facts do you mean?
The joy of forgiveness, the removal of guilt. But there is more, because no one person finds quite the same thing as any other.What I have experienced being utterly washed clean inside the heart is proof enough more me. I understand my experience doesn't work as a proof for you.
I can't say if you are happier than me. Maybe you are. But what matters more is the truth, and I'm sure we both agree with that.
I never grew up in family of genuine Christian faith. So when I came to faith I didn't have much theological "baggage". Anyhow it sounds like you have great comfort in your faith. That is not something I want to take away from you. I do believe as you say that a big part of being a Christian is to trust God, that everything is in His hands. I believe that, yet I don't put it in opposition to libertarian free will.
I said something about obedience in another post, that it sounds too static. I would like to put it this way: "A love, faith, obedience - relationship". It's not only about obedience, but firstly about love. If we love Christ wholeheartedly, obedience comes more natural, being less of a struggle. Also part of being obedient is coming to God when we fail. All this reminds me of 1 John 5:3.
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
— 1 John 5:3
I don't consider myself synergetic, but I think most Calvinists would say I am. To me it's all about what Jesus did for us. We are not saved by our own efforts, but through Christ and the Holy Spirit working inside of us. To receive a gift by putting your faith in Christ or giving your life to Christ in faith, is never synergism. It is not what the Bible calls "works", but God given grace.
I haven't fully found my place theologically in any church or denomination. I agree with different aspects of different churches, but we'll see what the future has in store, or maybe I should say: what God has in store.
Hint: What in scripture gives us the knowledge of good and evil and sets us on fire to seek the Lord or reject Him?That is intriguing and leads to all sorts of speculation, yes indeed. Do tell what the fruit and the serpent were, if you please.
John 6:35 says, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.”What can we "eat" that will give us eternal life?
Not surprised. What about post 4352?John 6:35 says, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.”
That doesn't mean anything to me in terms of apples and serpents.
The two trees are metaphoric for Christ and The Law. What "tree" can we eat from (means to live by) and live forever?It is a riddle to me. Still intriguing
That's true in all marriages.
If that is grace, then salvation is not the result of the will of man —NOT the result of your decision, but of God.
That was not my intention. What I meant was simply that the Bride's initial agreement is not necessary in at least some cases, for a happy marriage. Just for that reason alone, the claim concerning the necessity of the Bride's agreement in supporting synergism in salvation is suspect. There are other reasons that make it invalid, but that one reason is enough to disprove it.My point just being that even if arranged marriages have less divorces, it doesn't mean it is better or producing more loving relationships. So just looking at divorce rates doesn't say much about the nature of marriages.
You did imply arranged marriages were better.
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