What is wrong with Calvinism ?

Clare73 · Jul 30, 2022

zoidar said:
Faith in that God sent Jesus to die for our sins.

That he came to die as a ransom for many (Matthew 20:28), that your penalty for them is paid and they are remitted; i.e., you have been ransomed from condemnation (Romans 5:18) and wrath (Romans 5:9) by the mercy of God (Romans 11:32) who provided the sacrifice/payment for your sin (Romans 3:25).

zoidar · Jul 30, 2022

Clare73 said:
That he came to die as a ransom for many (Matthew 20:28), that your penalty for them is paid and they are remitted; i.e., you have been ransomed from condemnation?

I don't believe you have to believe all the details, just that Jesus died for our sins, so we don't have to. I think it's more about the heart than the details.

zoidar · Jul 30, 2022

Clare73 said:
That he came to die as a ransom for many (Matthew 20:28), that your penalty for them is paid and they are remitted; i.e., you have been ransomed from condemnation (Romans 5:18) and wrath (Romans 5:9) by the mercy of God (Romans 11:32) who provided the sacrifice/payment for your sin (Romans 3:25).

Do you think you need to believe all that to be saved?

Clare73 · Jul 30, 2022

zoidar said:
I don't believe you have to believe all the details, just that Jesus died for our sins, so we don't have to. It think it's more about the heart than the details.

Agreed. . .but they are so revelatory of God, why would the heart not want to know and appropriate them?

That he came to die as a ransom for many (Matthew 20:28), that your penalty for sin is paid and they are remitted; i.e., you have been ransomed from condemnation (Romans 5:18) and wrath (Romans 5:9) by the mercy of God (Romans 11:32) who himself provided the sacrifice/payment (Romans 3:25) to satisfy his own justice for your sin.

Clare73 · Jul 30, 2022

zoidar said:
Do you think you need to believe all that to be saved?

No. . .and I think he's not done yet with those he saves.

We are to appropriate Jesus more and more through his word, prayer and obedience.

zoidar · Jul 30, 2022

Is this thread done now or are we in for a few thousand more posts?

Clare73 · Jul 30, 2022

zoidar said:
Is this thread done now or are we in for a few thousand more posts?

I give up. . .is it?

zoidar · Jul 31, 2022

William Lane Craig on the original sin, if someone is interested. 10 minutes.

Jesus is YHWH · Jul 31, 2022

zoidar said:
Do you think you need to believe all that to be saved?

Otherwise its adding to the simplicity of the gospel. Jesus saves sinners, not theologians.

John Mullally · Jul 31, 2022

Jesus is YHWH said:
Otherwise its adding to the simplicity of the gospel. Jesus saves sinners, not theologians.

If doctrine is of supreme importance, I trust that it will be explicitly stated in Acts and the Epistles (written explicitly to believers) in at least 2 different passages. I am not discounting the OT or Gospels -they were written before the New Covenant and dealt with the Jews.

There is also the wrong assumption that Jesus was acting as a member of the Godhead when He walked the earth. He walked in the spirit as a man - He referred to Himself as the son of man and admitted He could do nothing of Himself, but relied on the Father. And the spirit was not given to man until Pentecost.

A lot of Calvinist doctrine operates from a different understanding of those points.

Clare73 · Jul 31, 2022

Jesus is YHWH said:
Otherwise its adding to the simplicity of the gospel. Jesus saves sinners, not theologians.

Wrong. . .theologians are not excluded from salvation.

Clare73 · Jul 31, 2022

John Mullally said:
If doctrine is of supreme importance, I trust that it will be explicitly stated in Acts and the Epistles (written explicitly to believers) in at least 2 different passages.

Who made that rule?

How many times did Jesus state that he was "the truth"?
How many times does Scripture state that "God has mercy on who he wants to have mercy" (Romans 9:18).

I am not discounting the OT or Gospels -they were written before the New Covenant and dealt with the Jews.There is also
the wrong assumption that Jesus was acting as a member of the Godhead when He walked the earth. He walked in the spirit as a man - He referred to Himself as the son of man

Son of Man was a name for Messiah.

and admitted He could do nothing of Himself, but relied on the Father. And
the spirit was not given to man until Pentecost.

Au contraire. . .

The Holy Spirit was given to the apostle before Pentecost (John 20:21-22).
Pentecost was a special infusion of gifts for the starting of the church.
Which has what to do with Jesus of Nazareth?

A lot of Calvinist doctrine operates from a different understanding of those points.

Different understanding, indeed! . . .straight from the Scriptures!

John Mullally · Jul 31, 2022

Clare73 said:
Who made that rule?

There is no reason to delve into scriptures written to OT Jews when the text written to the NT Church is explicitly clear on the topic.

How many times did Jesus state that he was "the truth"?

As with everything in the Bible, everything must be taken in context.

How many times does Scripture state that "God has mercy on who he wants to have mercy" (Romans 9:18).

Acts 2:38-39 identifies those people as the ones who respond to the preaching of the Gospel with repentance and baptism.

Son of Man was a name for Messiah.

Ezekiel also referred to himself as the son of man.

The Holy Spirit was given to the apostle before Pentecost (John 20:21-22).

They were anointed. But still told to wait to be filled before preaching to the world

Pentecost was a special infusion of gifts for the starting of the church.
Which has what to do with Jesus of Nazareth?

It has everything to do with the establishment of Christ’s Church.

Different understanding, indeed! . . .straight from the Scriptures!

So says the guy who denies that God desires to save all men as explicitly stated in 1 Timothy 2:4.

Clare73 · Jul 31, 2022

John Mullally said:
There is no reason to delve into scriptures written to OT Jews when there text written to the NT Church is clear on the topic.
As with everything in the Bible, everything must be taken in context.Acts 2:38-39 identifies those people as the ones who respond to the preaching of the Gospel with repentance and baptism.
Ezekiel also referred to himself as the son of man.
They were anointed. But still told to wait to be filled before preaching to the world
It has everything to do with the establishment of Christ’s Church.

So says the guy who
denies that God desires to save all men as explicitly stated in 1 Timothy 2:4.

Failure to account for more than one meaning of "all" and "world," thereby setting Scripture against itself.

John Mullally · Jul 31, 2022

Clare73 said:
Failure to account for more than one meaning of "all" and "world," thereby setting Scripture against itself.

context of all men here is all without exception. Any other interpretation makes no sense from how the text is structured.

Again 1 Timothy 2:1-6 explains why believers are to pray for all men without exception. One reason is to pray for those in authority who were commonly heathen despots. Another reason is because God wants all to be saved without exception. A third reason is that Christ gave himself as a ransom for all men without exception.

Clare73 · Jul 31, 2022

John Mullally said:
context of all men here is all without exception. Any other interpretation
makes no sense from how the text is structured.

The most important determinative is the context of all the NT.

And the structure of the text does not require it.

zoidar · Jul 31, 2022

Clare73 said:
The most important determinative is the context of all the NT.

And the structure of the text does not require it.

If Paul means we are to pray for just all kinds of men, how do we know who to pray for? Should I pray for this person, but not for that person? How can that make sense?

Mark Quayle · Jul 31, 2022

misput said:
Why am I not surprised u are having trouble getting something through your head? And trying to change what I said, shame on you.

So if you aren't saying that, what are you saying?

Clare73 · Jul 31, 2022

zoidar said:
If Paul means we are to pray for just all kinds of men, how do we know who to pray for? Should I pray for this person, but not for that person? How can that make sense?

I give up. . .how?

zoidar · Jul 31, 2022

Clare73 said:
I give up. . .how?

I don't know. If there are people out there we are not to pray for. How do I know who they are?

What is wrong with Calvinism ?

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my Lord and my God !

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Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

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