Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Yes, collective salvation. I was primarily addressing the dilemma over Jacob, Esau and Pharoah.Contraire. . .
He is referring to salvation in Romans 9:19, Romans 9:23-24, Romans 9:27, Romans 9:30-32.
This is funny, I am basically agreeing with you about Calvinism and you do not recognize it.You sound like a democrat media guy putting on the spin.
Paul speaking of believers collectively is addressing a group of individuals so the point is moot.
Romans 9 is also irrelevant because the issue you are spinning is addressed in Romans 8.
Nope. . .there is no such thing in Scripture as "collective" salvation.Yes, collective salvation. I was primarily addressing the dilemma over Jacob, Esau and Pharoah.
Sorry, you do not understand.Nope. . .there is no such thing in Scripture as "collective" salvation.
Salvation is only by individual faith in the Promise (Jesus Christ) or by individual faith in and trust on the person and atoning sacrifice (blood, Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for remission of one's sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," by faith declared righteous (justified) with the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ (Romans 1:17, Romans 3:20-21), just as Abraham's faith was credited/imputed to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3).
You cannot tell by Clare and my post to each other that we do not agree? What wave link are you on?!!!If I understood you correctly, you believe God only predestinates events. That puts you and Clare in agreement.
Does that sting a little?
You cannot tell by Clare and my post to each other that we do not agree? What wave link are you on?!!!
Do I think God predestinates only events, or that God predestinates events?If I understood you correctly, you believe God only predestinates events. That puts you and Clare in agreement.
Does that sting a little?
I see things in terms of election.I`m not sure.
I see things in terms of election.
I don't think of the consequences of faith (salvation) as a "predestined" event, anymore than the consequences of gravity being a predestined event.
Help me out here.
I see things in terms of election.
I don't think of the consequences of faith (salvation) as a "predestined" event, anymore than the consequences of gravity being a "predestined" event.
Help me out here, if you can.
God clearly predestines events, primarily concerning Christ. He does not predestine individual salvation. He stands at the door and knocks but it is up to us whether to let Him in or not. Whosoever believes, not whosoever He chooses.I`m pretty dumb. Can you maybe clarify your predestination position if I misunderstand it?
God clearly predestines events, primarily concerning Christ. He does not predestine individual salvation. He stands at the door and knocks but it is up to us whether to let Him in or not. Whosoever believes, not whosoever He chooses.
Your text has "foreordained" where my text has "predestined."29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: 30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
All this is past tense as God looks at a believer covered by the Blood.
Yes and no.Yes and so far as I know you and Clare are on the same page.
Yes and no.
We choose to let him in because he has transformed our disposition (which governs our will) to prefer him, and so we freely choose, without external force or constraint, what we prefer. . .and which is the operation of free will.
Where we differ is in election, regarding whose dispositions of unregenerate man God chooses to change by regeneration, which change gives them to prefer God's will.
Salvation is the Lord's! . . .Man must have nothing about which he could boast.
Your text has "foreordained" where my text has "predestined."
Romans 8 would be an example of my understanding. . .predestined to the outcome of an event; i.e., to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, which seems to be pretty much the same thing as elected (chosen) for salvation, the outcome of which is the same.
How do you see it? Are you Arminian?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?