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what is worship?

Jamdoc

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Amen that the Bible has changed your opinion of God for the better. God sent His Son to die for us, so that shows that God is benevolent and gave up Himself for us. :)

I can't listen to men on it that's for sure, men can have the greatest of intentions on trying to communicate their ideas of God's purpose for us the purpose of creation and what God's plans for eternity on and they.. are depressing.
John Piper's idea of eternity, almost shipwrecked me.

The bible is what changed my mind on that.

I will take the Bible's definition of what is the reason man was created.. over the Westminster Confession, any day. One is God breathed, the other is not.
 
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AlexB23

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I can't listen to men on it that's for sure, men can have the greatest of intentions on trying to communicate their ideas of God's purpose for us the purpose of creation and what God's plans for eternity on and they.. are depressing.
John Piper's idea of eternity, almost shipwrecked me.

The bible is what changed my mind on that.

I will take the Bible's definition of what is the reason man was created.. over the Westminster Confession, any day. One is God breathed, the other is not.
Agreed. We must listen to the Bible, and no human, except for Christ. :) I am glad that I do not know or have read any of these theologians, such as that John Piper guy. I stick to the Bible and the Nicene Creed.
 
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Strong in Him

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Agreed. We must listen to the Bible, and no human, except for Christ. :)
Up to a point.
But there are/have been some great theologians, evangelists, commentary writers, clergy and so on around. There are talented people, and devout, sincere Christians, who have studied the languages that the Bible was written in and therefore have a good idea of what was really being said. There are people who know about the culture of Bible times and so on. Jesus didn't teach us that - nor did he teach Aramaic or Greek.

So yes, the Bible is our first, and final, point of reference and Jesus is Lord, and no one else.
But theologians and others can help us to read, learn and understand it more closely.
 
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Jamdoc

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Up to a point.
But there are/have been some great theologians, evangelists, commentary writers, clergy and so on around. There are talented people, and devout, sincere Christians, who have studied the languages that the Bible was written in and therefore have a good idea of what was really being said. There are people who know about the culture of Bible times and so on. Jesus didn't teach us that - nor did he teach Aramaic or Greek.

So yes, the Bible is our first, and final, point of reference and Jesus is Lord, and no one else.
But theologians and others can help us to read, learn and understand it more closely.
a lot of times these theologians and church bodies have morphed what it means to worship and what our purpose and eternal future is, in a rather depressing way.
They have seemingly swapped our purpose with the purpose of angels, like our eternal destination is to replace what angels were created to do.
Like okay, it is a current reality after the fall that God allowed angels to be the powers behind the scenes (Deuteronomy 32:8, Psalms 82, Daniel 10's Prince of Persia and Prince of Greece, Luke 4:6, Ephesians 6:12), even though Angels were not created to rule, they were created to praise God and serve as messengers. What we see in this world now partially is because it's under the guidance of angels, who twist things and seek worship for themselves, it is part of the curse, servants ruling instead of the intended rulers, it's a disaster.
But anyway, many theologians are enamored with angels, and see their example of what their form of worship is, and think we're to emulate them. They see our purpose as what they were created to do. It's like, observing a bird and deciding since birds are so great servants of God, that we should act like them, flapping our arms to fly and chirping.

When our actual examples of why we were created, are pre-fall Adam, and Jesus... not Angels.
 
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The Liturgist

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What is Christian worship?

Specifically in contrast to Christian veneration, Christian worship entails glorification (doxology) and adoration, for all glory and honor are due to God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

The Byzantine Divine Liturgy poetically refers to the Eucharist as “A Mercy of Peace, a Sacrifice of Praise.” Additionally the liturgies of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches consistently refer to the Eucharist, which is the apex of Christian worship, as a bloodless and rational sacrifice.

The continual prayer of the Hesychast monks and other devotions, and the Divine Office (liturgy of the hours) and the other sacraments are also worship.

Of course frequently in worship we venerate the Theotokos, the Saints, the Holy Icons and the Holy Cross. Today is All Saints Day in the Eastern Orthodox Church (except in Finland, which is on the Gregorian calendar and thus celebrated it a few weeks back).

The Orthodox Church is defined as that church which emphasizes correct worship (specifically, correct glorification), which is what Orthodoxy means. It does not, contrary to popular opinion, refer to beliefs but to worship, but of course the principle of lex orandi, lex credendi applies. We are also Catholic, in that the Orthodox Church is universal (Catholic likewise means “according to the whole”), and Eastern Orthodoxy is specifically the Catholic Church of the Eastern Roman Empire and later the ethnic groups of the Rum (Roman) millet of the Ottoman Empire, in the Levant, Egypt, Asia Minor and the European regions of Greece, Albania and the rest of what the Ottomans called “Roumelia”, which consists of the Orthodox lands of Eastern Europe along with certain Latin Eite Roman Catholics Christians and Galgolithic Catholics who suffered the terrible persecutions of Turkocratia alongside the Eastern Orthodox, in Croatia, Herzegovina, Bosnia and Albania, among other places.

The Oriental Orthodox on the other hand are the Orthodox of the Syriac, Coptic, Armenian, Ethiopian, Eritrean and Indian people.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I think worship is actually pretty hard to define, but I'll see if I can offer some thoughts.

In one sense worship is that which affirms and declares God worthy of our highest praise, our thankfulness, of our faith, of our submission and obedience, of our utmost adoration.

We do this by affirming, and living, recognizing that He alone is God and there is no other. Necessarily that means that nothing else can be divine, and nothing else can take the place in our lives or even come close to rivaling the place of God. "You shall have no other gods before Me" means not only are we to abstain from the worship of false gods, such as the various pagan gods of ancient polytheistic religions; but nothing can have that priority, nothing can have that importance. In his Large Catechism Martin Luther wrote:

"That now, I say, upon which you set your heart and put your trust is properly your god. ... to have a god is to have something in which the heart entirely trusts." - The Large Catechism, Section I, The First Commandment

Faith, here, we might also call confidence; a radical and bold trust which clings and cleaves. For St. James reminds us, "even the demons believe, and tremble"; it is hardly sufficient to simply believe, or know, that there is only one God, and that He who is unveiled as the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob; the God of Israel, the God of the Prophets; to know that indeed He is the God and Father of Jesus Christ--the devils know all this better than even we do.

It is therefore faith of a different sort, not mere belief, or knowledge; but trust, confidence, clinging; it is to have this God as your God. The One in whom you trust, the One you confide in, the One you hold dearest and nearest. That which is your refuge, that which is your safety.

That He is your Father, and your King, and your Lord, and your Friend. And that He is these things, and you can trust in Him, and believe in Him, and come to Him, and confide in Him. To be feared, yes, to be adored, yes; to be loved. "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind"

In Deuteronomy 6:5, which the Lord quoted in the Gospels, the word translated as "might" (rendered as "strength" in the Gospel texts) is me'od, it's not a noun, but an adjective, it means exceedingly, greatly, and much. As in when, in Genesis, God declares all that He made me'od tov, "exceedingly good". To love God with all our exceedingly, all of our much. With all our lebab, our inward parts, our heart and mind, the core of who and what we are; with all of our nephesh, our life, our breath; and also with all our me'od--with much, with our exceedingly--with everything else, with everything. Our innermost, our whole life, our utmost.

God is to be the object of our innermost, our whole life, our utmost.

In our minds, in our hearts, and in everything we do, think, say, feel, and are.

St. John does remind us, "We love because He first loved us", so let's not imagine that this love of God comes naturally, or easily, or can happen because of our mere striving. It can't, as St. Paul reminds us that all have sinned, all have fallen short, all have gone astray, there is none who is righteous, none who does good, none who loves or seeks God--all are sinful, all have betrayed our Creator, all have succumbed to myriad idolatries, all have become perverse--all are deserving of death and hell.

But God, rich in mercy, meets us not in what we deserve; but meets us in His grace, meeting us in Jesus Christ. God sees our hate, and responds in love, with love, holding us dear. And His love, His mercy, His goodness turns these broken stoney hearts into soft, clean, restored, healed hearts of flesh that learn to beat in rhythm to His love. As we abide in Jesus, trusting in Christ, abiding in His word, abiding in His Sacraments. The Holy Spirit, in us, healing us, sanctifying us, making us children of the Father, joint-heirs with Jesus Christ Himself. To call God Abba, Father. To love Him, for He loved us. To know Him, as He knows us. To have Him, as He has us.

So worship begins with this, God created us in His image. To reflect, to bear, to have communion and intimacy with Himself. That is, to be human. Lost and broken by sin and death and held in bondage by the devil; set free, healed, restored, and saved in and by and through Jesus Christ who suffered, died, and rose again (and who is coming again). To be restored to communion, to come to God, as a lost child to a most loving Father. For in Christ, by the Spirit, we are children of the Father.

Worship continues, as we abide by faith in Christ, in His word and in His Sacraments. To hear and receive that good which God freely gives as grace. To offer the sacrifice of praise, to adore and love and thank Him for all He has done. To love our neighbor as ourselves, and freely and humbly submit ourselves in obedience to the will and way of God. To be holy even as He is holy. To be merciful, to forgive even as we have been forgiven. To do justice and to love kindness, to walk humbly with our God. To love even as He has loved us; to love Him, and to love our neighbor.

In the Liturgy this worship is expressed in a wonderful way, for here God meets us in Word and Sacrament, loving us, healing us, justifying us, sanctifying us, saving us. And we, the People of God, mirroring what is revealed from heaven, and in anticipation of the Marriage Feast that is to come, offer thanks, and praise, and join the angels and holy saints who came before us in saying Holy, Holy, Holy. In songs, and psalms, and prayers. We hear, and we believe, we offer thanks, and we pray, we praise and rejoice, celebrating with joy the gifts and goodness of our God.

But it is not the individual elements--the music, the individual prayers, etc which are worship. These are expressions of worship. Worship is what it means to be created in the image of God, to have that image restored and being restored; and to live as children of our Father, in imitation of Christ, by the power of the Spirit who lives in us. To have faith, to abide, to obey. In our innermost, in our whole life, in our utmost. A worshiping people sing, but the song is not worship, it is worship which causes us to sing, which wells from within us, springs up from and bubbles and overflows to the surface as Hallelujah in not just our song, and words, and prayers, but in our actions, in our thoughts, in our dealings with others.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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bling

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I think worship is actually pretty hard to define, but I'll see if I can offer some thoughts.

In one sense worship is that which affirms and declares God worthy of our highest praise, our thankfulness, of our faith, of our submission and obedience, of our utmost adoration.

We do this by affirming, and living, recognizing that He alone is God and there is no other. Necessarily that means that nothing else can be divine, and nothing else can take the place in our lives or even come close to rivaling the place of God. "You shall have no other gods before Me" means not only are we to abstain from the worship of false gods, such as the various pagan gods of ancient polytheistic religions; but nothing can have that priority, nothing can have that importance. In his Large Catechism Martin Luther wrote:

"That now, I say, upon which you set your heart and put your trust is properly your god. ... to have a god is to have something in which the heart entirely trusts." - The Large Catechism, Section I, The First Commandment

Faith, here, we might also call confidence; a radical and bold trust which clings and cleaves. For St. James reminds us, "even the demons believe, and tremble"; it is hardly sufficient to simply believe, or know, that there is only one God, and that He who is unveiled as the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob; the God of Israel, the God of the Prophets; to know that indeed He is the God and Father of Jesus Christ--the devils know all this better than even we do.

It is therefore faith of a different sort, not mere belief, or knowledge; but trust, confidence, clinging; it is to have this God as your God. The One in whom you trust, the One you confide in, the One you hold dearest and nearest. That which is your refuge, that which is your safety.

That He is your Father, and your King, and your Lord, and your Friend. And that He is these things, and you can trust in Him, and believe in Him, and come to Him, and confide in Him. To be feared, yes, to be adored, yes; to be loved. "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind"

In Deuteronomy 6:5, which the Lord quoted in the Gospels, the word translated as "might" (rendered as "strength" in the Gospel texts) is me'od, it's not a noun, but an adjective, it means exceedingly, greatly, and much. As in when, in Genesis, God declares all that He made me'od tov, "exceedingly good". To love God with all our exceedingly, all of our much. With all our lebab, our inward parts, our heart and mind, the core of who and what we are; with all of our nephesh, our life, our breath; and also with all our me'od--with much, with our exceedingly--with everything else, with everything. Our innermost, our whole life, our utmost.

God is to be the object of our innermost, our whole life, our utmost.

In our minds, in our hearts, and in everything we do, think, say, feel, and are.

St. John does remind us, "We love because He first loved us", so let's not imagine that this love of God comes naturally, or easily, or can happen because of our mere striving. It can't, as St. Paul reminds us that all have sinned, all have fallen short, all have gone astray, there is none who is righteous, none who does good, none who loves or seeks God--all are sinful, all have betrayed our Creator, all have succumbed to myriad idolatries, all have become perverse--all are deserving of death and hell.

But God, rich in mercy, meets us not in what we deserve; but meets us in His grace, meeting us in Jesus Christ. God sees our hate, and responds in love, with love, holding us dear. And His love, His mercy, His goodness turns these broken stoney hearts into soft, clean, restored, healed hearts of flesh that learn to beat in rhythm to His love. As we abide in Jesus, trusting in Christ, abiding in His word, abiding in His Sacraments. The Holy Spirit, in us, healing us, sanctifying us, making us children of the Father, joint-heirs with Jesus Christ Himself. To call God Abba, Father. To love Him, for He loved us. To know Him, as He knows us. To have Him, as He has us.

So worship begins with this, God created us in His image. To reflect, to bear, to have communion and intimacy with Himself. That is, to be human. Lost and broken by sin and death and held in bondage by the devil; set free, healed, restored, and saved in and by and through Jesus Christ who suffered, died, and rose again (and who is coming again). To be restored to communion, to come to God, as a lost child to a most loving Father. For in Christ, by the Spirit, we are children of the Father.

Worship continues, as we abide by faith in Christ, in His word and in His Sacraments. To hear and receive that good which God freely gives as grace. To offer the sacrifice of praise, to adore and love and thank Him for all He has done. To love our neighbor as ourselves, and freely and humbly submit ourselves in obedience to the will and way of God. To be holy even as He is holy. To be merciful, to forgive even as we have been forgiven. To do justice and to love kindness, to walk humbly with our God. To love even as He has loved us; to love Him, and to love our neighbor.

In the Liturgy this worship is expressed in a wonderful way, for here God meets us in Word and Sacrament, loving us, healing us, justifying us, sanctifying us, saving us. And we, the People of God, mirroring what is revealed from heaven, and in anticipation of the Marriage Feast that is to come, offer thanks, and praise, and join the angels and holy saints who came before us in saying Holy, Holy, Holy. In songs, and psalms, and prayers. We hear, and we believe, we offer thanks, and we pray, we praise and rejoice, celebrating with joy the gifts and goodness of our God.

But it is not the individual elements--the music, the individual prayers, etc which are worship. These are expressions of worship. Worship is what it means to be created in the image of God, to have that image restored and being restored; and to live as children of our Father, in imitation of Christ, by the power of the Spirit who lives in us. To have faith, to abide, to obey. In our innermost, in our whole life, in our utmost. A worshiping people sing, but the song is not worship, it is worship which causes us to sing, which wells from within us, springs up from and bubbles and overflows to the surface as Hallelujah in not just our song, and words, and prayers, but in our actions, in our thoughts, in our dealings with others.

-CryptoLutheran
This is all good ideas, but I see it very simply as:
Offering up obedience to a commandment of man is considered "van worship", but it seems to me, offering up obedience to any and all of God's commands, would be righteous worship.
 
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The Liturgist

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This is all good ideas, but I see it very simply as:
Offering up obedience to a commandment of man is considered "van worship", but it seems to me, offering up obedience to any and all of God's commands, would be righteous worship.

Indeed, and that’s why I encourage everyone to attend traditional liturgical churches such as the traditional Lutherans, Anglicans, the traditional liturgies of the Roman Catholic Church, and so forth, and especially the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches, which by definition offer correct worship of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
 
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Jamdoc

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Indeed, and that’s why I encourage everyone to attend traditional liturgical churches such as the traditional Lutherans, Anglicans, the traditional liturgies of the Roman Catholic Church, and so forth, and especially the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches, which by definition offer correct worship of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Except there is no temple on the New Earth, and liturgy isn't discussed as being a part of the New Earth, wasn't part of Eden, and what IS shown on the New Earth each time it's mentioned is very earthly activities, building houses, planting fields and vineyards, children playing with animals, the religious rituals that ARE mentioned in places that are seen as New Earth, such as the later chapters of Ezekiel and Zechariah 14... involve Old Testament Jewish sacrifices and festivals, and pilgrimages to Jerusalem.

Revelation 4, 5, and 7 do not continue forever. They are not New Earth passages.
 
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concretecamper

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It can not be defined. Worship just is surrendering ourselves to God. It could be with music, in prayer or in contemplation.
The Book of Revelation shows us very nicely the Heavenly Liturgy. His Kingdom on Earth (His Church) participates in this Worship. The Divine Liturgy is the primary way to Worship.
 
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RileyG

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The Book of Revelation shows us very nicely the Heavenly Liturgy. His Kingdom on Earth (His Church) participates in this Worship. The Divine Liturgy is the primary way to Worship.
Indeed!
 
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AlexB23

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The Book of Revelation shows us very nicely the Heavenly Liturgy. His Kingdom on Earth (His Church) participates in this Worship. The Divine Liturgy is the primary way to Worship.
I sadly can not sing the high notes very well, so hopefully God understands that I might not make the best singer up there in Heaven. Worshiping God means to me by admiring His Word (Bible) and His handiwork inside of creation, with the second reason cos of Psalm 111:2.

One of my first devotionals ever was posted here on this forum on April 11th, covering this verse.

Date
April 11, 2024 | Faith & Science​
Verse
Psalm 111:2 (ESV): Great are the works of the Lord, studied by all who delight in them.​
Prompt
Explain Psalm 111:2. How does this verse relate to scientists, and how science and faith go hand in hand?​
Explanation
Psalm 111:2 expresses wonder at God's great works or deeds, which are studied by all who delight in them. Scientists engage with these works through their research and discovery. Faith and science complement each other, as both acknowledge God's presence and power in the natural world. Scientific inquiry is driven by a belief in a deeper meaning to the universe and a recognition of God's involvement. The verse affirms that studying God's works deepens our appreciation for and connection to the LORD.​
Societal Relevance
Both science and faith can go hand-in-hand. An astronomer can look through his/her telescope and see stars that have been around for millions of years. The vast scale of the universe shows how small we are in size compared to God’s Creation. A Catholic Christian named Gregor Mendel discovered genetics in the mid-1800s when he analyzed pea plant alleles. Louis Pasteur, the French man who we can thank for making beverages safer by bringing the liquid to 60°C (145°F) whenever we buy milk and juice at the grocery store, was also a Christian. Pasteur had a Catholic background with humanitarian beliefs to serve the greater good, though he was not deep into his faith.

Georges Lemâitre, a Belgian Catholic priest and scientist, is considered the father of the Big Bang theory, along with Hubble and Alexander Friedmann*. In the 1920s, along with Edwin Hubble and Friedmann, he proposed that the universe began as a singularity – an infinitesimally small and dense point of pure energy – that expanded and gave birth to the universe as we know it. Lemaitre's theory was influenced by his religious beliefs and his understanding of Einstein's theory of general relativity.

*Friedmann was baptized into the Russian Orthodox Church as an infant, and lived much of his life in Saint Petersburg.

There are rare instances where bread at Catholic churches turn into physical flesh and blood, known as a Eucharistic miracle. But for most times, the bread does not turn into physical flesh or blood from our perspective, but instead transforms into flesh and blood invisibly, known as transubstantiation. I did not believe in transubstantiation, until learning about Eucharistic miracles in late 2021 or early 2022.

Eucharistic miracles have been studied by scientists, and in all of the confirmed miracles, the blood was type AB. In other Eucharistic miracles, the Catholic church has dismissed some, as red fungus sometimes grows on old bread. So, rigorous scientific testing is used to confirm these miracles.​
 
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Arctangent

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What is Christian worship?
If the essence of the question is "What is that which must be rendered unto God, and only unto God, and if rendered to anyone or anything else is idolatry?" then the answer is - other than the acknowledgement that He is God - incense and the Eucharist.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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If the essence of the question is "What is that which must be rendered unto God, and only unto God, and if rendered to anyone or anything else is idolatry?" then the answer is - other than the acknowledgement that He is God - incense and the Eucharist.
Attending a Christian meeting to sing psalms and pray is praiseworthy. Hearing a Christian sermon about the holy scriptures and hearing the holy scriptures read is praiseworthy.

Joining with Christ through the reception of Christ in the holy sacrament of the Eucharist is worship.
 
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Worship is obedience to God's commandments.

Jesus said when we keep our own rules/traditions over the commandments of God- quoting directly from the Ten Commandments our worship is in vain

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”


We see we are called to True worship

Rev 14:7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” (Exo 20:11)

what is it to fear God?

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.

14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

True worship is obeying Gods commandments the way He wrote and spoke them Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 because whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16

This is the result of true worship

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Compared to the verse before

Rev 14:13 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Worship the beast means obeying their commandments over the commandments of God. That sadly most the world has followed. Why we are called out of our false teachings but will we listen Rev 18:4
 
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