What is the validity of the Book of Enoch?

[Hope Mikaelson]

I was reading this thread How ironclad is the "life begins at conception" doctrine? | Page 2 | Christian Forums, and someone on page 2 uses the Book of Enoch to prove that abortion is demonic. Specifically in Enoch 69 verses 12-13 it says a demon taught men how to perform abortions. So I looked up the Book of Enoch and read the whole 69th chapter. It seems, odd, for example in verse 9 it is claimed a demon taught men how to write with pen and ink, as if that's a bad thing? Not to mention that the Book of Enoch itself is written with pen and ink.
And in verses 15-21 it seems to say that the creation story was told to the children of men by a demon? This is all really confusing. I can understand why it isn't included in the Bible.
And in verse 22 it seems to promote the idea that there are spirits living in every body of water and every tree, and that these spirits praise the Lord.
This is a bit troublesome for me as I had always heard that Jude verses 14-15 quote Enoch 1 verse 9. Why would Jude quote stuff that seemingly doesn't make sense? I think the idea of spirits living in trees and waters goes against most of what we were taught. Here is a website with that gives a bit more context Does Jude quote Enoch? - Biblical Historical Context
What do you guys make of this? I've never read Enoch before, so this is all new to me.

 

[HTacianas]

I was reading this thread How ironclad is the "life begins at conception" doctrine? | Page 2 | Christian Forums, and someone on page 2 uses the Book of Enoch to prove that abortion is demonic. Specifically in Enoch 69 verses 12-13 it says a demon taught men how to perform abortions. So I looked up the Book of Enoch and read the whole 69th chapter. It seems, odd, for example in verse 9 it is claimed a demon taught men how to write with pen and ink, as if that's a bad thing? Not to mention that the Book of Enoch itself is written with pen and ink.
And in verses 15-21 it seems to say that the creation story was told to the children of men by a demon? This is all really confusing. I can understand why it isn't included in the Bible.
And in verse 22 it seems to promote the idea that there are spirits living in every body of water and every tree, and that these spirits praise the Lord.
This is a bit troublesome for me as I had always heard that Jude verses 14-15 quote Enoch 1 verse 9. Why would Jude quote stuff that seemingly doesn't make sense? I think the idea of spirits living in trees and waters goes against most of what we were taught. Here is a website with that gives a bit more context Does Jude quote Enoch? - Biblical Historical Context
What do you guys make of this? I've never read Enoch before, so this is all new to me.

The book of Enoch is difficult because there is no book of Enoch. Enoch is a collection of different books written at different times by different authors spliced together into one book. It's interesting to read because it records some of the beliefs of the ancient Jews. But it's such a hodge-podge collection that it isn't really useful in determining the truth of anything in particular.

Jude may or may not quote Enoch. Either it's a direct quote from some version or part of Enoch or it's part of the oral tradition of the Jews, which may or may not be recorded accurately in Enoch.

 

[Hope Mikaelson]

In Deuteronomy 4 verse 2 it says not to add or take away from Scripture. Do you think perhaps Enoch may have once been Scripture but was ruined by people adding to it?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

We publish a large print version of Enoch and Jasher as well. We do not include it as part of the Bible but do make them available for people to read.

 

[HTacianas]

In Deuteronomy 4 verse 2 it says not to add or take away from Scripture. Do you think perhaps Enoch may have once been Scripture but was ruined by people adding to it?

The warning in Deuteronomy is against adding or subtracting from the law, not adding or subtracting from scripture itself. For example, Deuteronomy was written before Isaiah, but Isaiah became scripture later. So Isaiah was added to scripture just as all the books written after Deuteronomy were. From there you get into canonization, or what is actually believed to be scripture.

 

[disciple Clint]

I was reading this thread How ironclad is the "life begins at conception" doctrine? | Page 2 | Christian Forums, and someone on page 2 uses the Book of Enoch to prove that abortion is demonic. Specifically in Enoch 69 verses 12-13 it says a demon taught men how to perform abortions. So I looked up the Book of Enoch and read the whole 69th chapter. It seems, odd, for example in verse 9 it is claimed a demon taught men how to write with pen and ink, as if that's a bad thing? Not to mention that the Book of Enoch itself is written with pen and ink.
And in verses 15-21 it seems to say that the creation story was told to the children of men by a demon? This is all really confusing. I can understand why it isn't included in the Bible.
And in verse 22 it seems to promote the idea that there are spirits living in every body of water and every tree, and that these spirits praise the Lord.
This is a bit troublesome for me as I had always heard that Jude verses 14-15 quote Enoch 1 verse 9. Why would Jude quote stuff that seemingly doesn't make sense? I think the idea of spirits living in trees and waters goes against most of what we were taught. Here is a website with that gives a bit more context Does Jude quote Enoch? - Biblical Historical Context
What do you guys make of this? I've never read Enoch before, so this is all new to me.

What Does the Bible Say About Book Of Enoch?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I was reading this thread How ironclad is the "life begins at conception" doctrine? | Page 2 | Christian Forums, and someone on page 2 uses the Book of Enoch to prove that abortion is demonic. Specifically in Enoch 69 verses 12-13 it says a demon taught men how to perform abortions. So I looked up the Book of Enoch and read the whole 69th chapter. It seems, odd, for example in verse 9 it is claimed a demon taught men how to write with pen and ink, as if that's a bad thing? Not to mention that the Book of Enoch itself is written with pen and ink.
And in verses 15-21 it seems to say that the creation story was told to the children of men by a demon? This is all really confusing. I can understand why it isn't included in the Bible.
And in verse 22 it seems to promote the idea that there are spirits living in every body of water and every tree, and that these spirits praise the Lord.
This is a bit troublesome for me as I had always heard that Jude verses 14-15 quote Enoch 1 verse 9. Why would Jude quote stuff that seemingly doesn't make sense? I think the idea of spirits living in trees and waters goes against most of what we were taught. Here is a website with that gives a bit more context Does Jude quote Enoch? - Biblical Historical Context
What do you guys make of this? I've never read Enoch before, so this is all new to me.

Like any other fictional book ever written, the Late Great Planet Earth comes to mind, people may and do tend to blur the lines between truth and fantasy. Enoch is fantasy even if its quoted in Jude.
That being said, "miscarriage " is used in the verse. There is a difference.

Defined:
The main difference between pregnancy termination and miscarriage is the reasons why they happen. A termination is a procedure that a woman chooses to have in order to end her pregnancy. A miscarriage is something that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally.

 

[RevealedTruths]

The Canon of Scripture, Part 2: Enoch and Jubilees

 

[Hope Mikaelson]

Why Would Jude quote fantasy

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Why Would Jude quote fantasy

Paul quotes the philosopher Menander: Acts 17:28, “for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.'”

 

[Lukaris]

I made reference to Enoch in the thread mentioned in the OP. It is valid to question an appeal to a writing outside of the Bible. Personally, I do not know where a fine line might be in this either.

In the case of Enoch, it is difficult to ignore aspects of it when it clearly attests to some held truths that conform to the common Bible and that some early Christians thought it to be scripture. The Orthodox Ethiopian Church includes Enoch ( among others, none being gnostic etc.) in their Bible which is the longest canon of any ancient church. Interestingly, the New Testament is consistent almost all professing, Trinitarian Christians.

Personally, I believe that within Bibles of 66 Old Testament books & the common, New Testament that matters like the Trinity & pro life should be understood. This does not prevent wrangling from different views though.

When I read ( for ex.) Isaiah 48, Daniel 7, John 14, John 15, & John 16 etc. I see these as verification of the Trinity. Daniel 7:9-14 is common scripture of supporting the Trinity but other views will probably still wrangle over this. Yet when I see references to the Ancient of Days, the Son of Man, & a “Lord of Spirits” as clearly 3 Divine Persons of 1 God in Enoch 48 which was noted before the earthly life of the Lord Jesus Christ, how can I ignore this? Compare Enoch 48 to Daniel 7:9-14 & even parts of Isaiah 48.


CHAPTER 48
1In that place I beheld a fountain of righteousness, which never failed, encircled by many springs of wis- dom. Of these all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wis-
a. Thathispatience...endureforever. Or, “(that) their patience may not have to last for ever” (Knibb, p. 133).
dom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy.
2In that hour was this Son of man invoked before the Lord of spirits, and his name in the presence of the Ancient of days.
3Before the sun and the signs were created, before the stars of heaven were formed, his name was invoked in the presence of the Lord of spirits. A support shall he be for the righteous and the holy to lean upon, without falling; and he shall be the light of nations.
4He shall be the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All, who dwell on earth, shall fall down and worship before him; shall bless and glorify him, and sing praises to the name of the Lord of spirits.
5Therefore the Elect and the Con- cealed One existed in his pres- ence, before the world was created, and for ever.
6In his presence he existed, and has revealed to the saints and to the righteous the wisdom of the Lord of spirits; for he has preserved the lot of the righteous, because they have hated and rejected this world of iniquity, and have detested all its works and ways, in the name of the Lord of spirits.
7For in his name shall they be pre- served; and his will shall be their life. In those days shall the kings of the earth and the mighty men, who have gained the world by


their achievements, become hum- ble in countenance.
8For in the day of their anxiety and trouble their souls shall not be saved; and they shall be in subjec- tion to those whom I have chosen.
9I will cast them like hay into the fire, and like lead into the water. Thus shall they burn in the pres- ence of the righteous, and sink in the presence of the holy; nor shall a tenth part of them be found.
10But in the day of their trouble, the world shall obtain tranquillity.
11In his presence shall they fall, and not be raised up again; nor shall there be any one to take them out of his hands, and to lift them up: for they have denied the Lord of spirits, and his Messiah. The name of the Lord of spirits shall be blessed.


The version of Enoch I posted here is from early 19th century, Anglican Bishop Richard Laurence. This seems to be the best translation although a couple others are satisfactory. Surely this is a tricky issue & I only go with & sort what seems truthful. I guess some might say “cherry picking”.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In Deuteronomy 4 verse 2 it says not to add or take away from Scripture. Do you think perhaps Enoch may have once been Scripture but was ruined by people adding to it?

Lots of books of the Bible were written after Deuteronomy. The warning in Deuteronomy doesn't apply to the Canon, but is a warning against tampering with God's Law.

The Samaritans have their own version of the Pentateuch (the five books of Moses) that is different from the one which the Jews have. Warnings like the one in Deuteronomy are about keeping and preserving what had been given already.

In the same way, the warning in St. John's Revelation refers to tampering with the Revelation itself.

The history of the evolution of the Biblical Canon is well documented, and Enoch has never been accepted by the Church on the whole as being Scripture. It isn't found or included in any of the ancient lists of Canonical Scripture.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

We publish a large print version of Enoch and Jasher as well. We do not include it as part of the Bible but do make them available for people to read.

Except there is no book of Jasher. Or more accurately, there are two works which go by the name "Jasher" today, one is a work of Jewish midrash written in the middle ages; but the other is an 18th century forgery.

There was a book of Jasher at one time, but it no longer exists.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Arctangent]

I was reading this thread How ironclad is the "life begins at conception" doctrine? | Page 2 | Christian Forums, and someone on page 2 uses the Book of Enoch to prove that abortion is demonic. Specifically in Enoch 69 verses 12-13 it says a demon taught men how to perform abortions. So I looked up the Book of Enoch and read the whole 69th chapter. It seems, odd, for example in verse 9 it is claimed a demon taught men how to write with pen and ink, as if that's a bad thing? Not to mention that the Book of Enoch itself is written with pen and ink.
And in verses 15-21 it seems to say that the creation story was told to the children of men by a demon? This is all really confusing. I can understand why it isn't included in the Bible.
And in verse 22 it seems to promote the idea that there are spirits living in every body of water and every tree, and that these spirits praise the Lord.
This is a bit troublesome for me as I had always heard that Jude verses 14-15 quote Enoch 1 verse 9. Why would Jude quote stuff that seemingly doesn't make sense? I think the idea of spirits living in trees and waters goes against most of what we were taught. Here is a website with that gives a bit more context Does Jude quote Enoch? - Biblical Historical Context
What do you guys make of this? I've never read Enoch before, so this is all new to me.

At the very least I believe we can say that Enoch was part of what formed the worldview of the authors and recipients of the New Testament. Even if we conclude that it is not truly part of the Old Testament (which I agree with), it was certainly a prominent piece of literature in the late 2nd Temple period, and Jews on the whole were familiar with it. The New Testament authors were familiar with Enoch and assumed that their audience was familiar with it as well. Even though the book as a whole was not part of their canon of public Synagogue readings, it was part of what shaped how they received and interpreted information. Enoch is part of what shaped the context of New Testament thought.

 

[Lulav]

The warning in Deuteronomy is against adding or subtracting from the law, not adding or subtracting from scripture itself. For example, Deuteronomy was written before Isaiah, but Isaiah became scripture later. So Isaiah was added to scripture just as all the books written after Deuteronomy were. From there you get into canonization, or what is actually believed to be scripture.

Scripture just means writings, just as Bible just means book.
That is why it should be referred to as the HOLY BIBLE.

The book of the Revelation also has this admonition:

Revelation 22:19. “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”.

 

[GenemZ]

I find it amusing that when the actual Enoch lived? Man had not yet invented writing.