razzelflabben
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what questions have I asked other than how anything you posted addresses how sin entered the world? Oh well, I guess we will never know.
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what questions have I asked other than how anything you posted addresses how sin entered the world? Oh well, I guess we will never know.Where have I questioned if you believed unto salvation? I accused no one. I have addressed your questions as you asked, how my first post addressed what you had written in reply to another. I wield no sword. I stated no disagreement. You do...but I forgive you.
sin entered the world by man's hand not God's .
So, you do not believe - Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
To see things as an either / or has everything to do with where we are (spiritually) viewing from...and eating from a certain tree. God made all things to bring about HIS purpose and plan from the beginning. Who is man to say what God has made is evil? The scriptures I have shared speak to this 'seeing'...being blind that we might see (though it is not something we can do of our self)
Jesus even said "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."
All things work together for good...whether we can 'see' it or not. God's will is being done whether anyone does God's will or not...
Jesus hanging on the cross did not condemn those who condemned Him to that death, asking His father to forgive them...for they were carrying out God's will/purpose just as much...
I seriously have no idea what you are talking about or where you get the idea from what you quoted that I don't believe God made all things
I seriously have no idea what you are talking about or where you get the idea from what you quoted that I don't believe God made all things....this is ridiculous and if you don't start addressing what I said in context of the discussion our discussion will be over.
how so? I said nothing at all about God's sovereignty only that as scripture says, sin entered at man's hand...if you want to talk about God's sovereignty then let us talk about it just don't change the topic without warning and expect me or anyone else to keep up...lol my husband tries that a lot and he is slowly learning that is no way to communicate.My response to that statement for it appears you say this happened outside of God's sovereignty...
that is what scripture says and I even quoted the passage...should I post it again? 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also comes through a man....Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned....Romans 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!You stated "sin entered the world by man's hand not God's"
You should point it out to me then cause all I saw was something about God is bigger than we can fit in a short answer.I did address what you said in context...
Isaiah 53 is a good reference point for the subject of suffering.I did a biblical study on suffering not all that long ago...first from the biblical standpoint.
From the biblical standpoint (cliff note version) sin is the result of man being defiant and sinning. Thus we can look at it as man broke the earth and all that is in it by opening the door for sin to come in. Before that time the earth and all that was in it was not only perfect but without sickness, disease, evil of any kind. So not God's fault...but just because it is not God's fault does not mean He can't fix it, right?
Why doesn't God fix the evil we created...well again cliff note version...so that we realize that He is our answer and in that come to Him so that when it is time He can reconcile or fix what was broken. It just isn't time yet because more need to come so that the new heaven and new earth are filled thus once again perfect.
how so? I said nothing at all about God's sovereignty only that as scripture says, sin entered at man's hand...if you want to talk about God's sovereignty then let us talk about it just don't change the topic without warning and expect me or anyone else to keep up...lol my husband tries that a lot and he is slowly learning that is no way to communicate. that is what scripture says and I even quoted the passage...should I post it again? 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also comes through a man....Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned....Romans 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
Now, do you want to respond as to why we should dismiss what scripture says? You should point it out to me then cause all I saw was something about God is bigger than we can fit in a short answer.
one of my all time favorite passages, memorized it years agoIsaiah 53 is a good reference point for the subject of suffering.
and yet I agreed with you that God knew from the beginning but didn't go into further details because it was off topic....so what part of what I said did you not read?No topic change...though I guess that is how you see it.
God said it wasn't good for for man to be alone (before he placed Adam in a deep slumber to take out the woman who prepared the feast he ate) in contrast to when God proclaimed all that He had made as 'Very good.'
Your statement seemed to imply that God had no idea and Adam/man acted outside the will of God.
so are you suggesting here that God creating woman from man was the beginning of suffering in the world? Cause I have an issue with that from the biblical standpoint.I don't disagree that Adam's action began our journey of soul...It was not good for man to be alone, and yet God knew His remedy for this would bring Adam/man to a death.
but we are discussing only the part in which why there is suffering in the world not all the rest that you want to keep bringing in.In no way have I dismissed the scriptures you have shared. The whole book, cover to cover is the narrative of this journey of soul/process within...The Way (back)...
"we created"?? So, are you saying God gave man the power to create? Hmmm...I see "Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. (John 1:3)Why doesn't God fix the evil we created
"we created" you said...how so? I said nothing at all about God's sovereignty
You should point it out to me then cause all I saw was something about God is bigger than we can fit in a short answer.
but we are discussing only the part in which why there is suffering in the world not all the rest that you want to keep bringing in.
read the context, some things are created when something else happens...for example, if I put flour and sugar together with an egg and some flavoring I create a cake...that does not mean that I have some magical power to create something from nothing. Man created the suffering in the world not by "magically creating" something from nothing but rather a situation was created by man's introducing sin into the otherwise perfect creation God made."we created"?? So, are you saying God gave man the power to create? Hmmm...I see "Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. (John 1:3)
but as I said above, we are not creating something new we are introducing sin into what was already created and if you read my words in context you will know that without question is what I said."we created" you said...
Isaiah 45:10 "Woe to him who says to a father, 'What are you begetting?' 11 Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: "Ask Me about the things to come concerning My sons, And you shall commit to Me the work of My hands. 12 "It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands And I ordained all their host.
Who creates your thoughts? Who creates your desires to sin? Who creates the thought you will have in 10 days 6 hours and 15 mins from now? Sure God created the ability for man to think but He would never "create" an evil thought for you to act on..."Without Him nothing was made that has been made."
"For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him."
read the context, some things are created when something else happens
actually scripture tells us very plainly that all suffering will only stop in the resurrection...in fact, believers are warned that in this world we will suffer. 2 Timothy 3:12 and others like John 16:33What about the promise that suffering is brought to an end, utterly, when we find our self in HIM?
I don't know what you want to talk about to know what point you are trying to make which is why I asked you how it relates and I still don't know. As to suffering...the two passages above as well as others show that scripture itself understands the word suffering, the question is why don't you understand the word meaning?How we 'see'/perceive suffering as something bad...or something good...as it relates to the truth of this Gospel and our soul. What I shared, is it not a continuation of this truth and the purpose?
Yep...when we are face to face with God in heaven...in fact, scripture warns us to not listen to those that proclaim this to have already come.Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away." 5 And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then He said, “Write this down, for these words are faithful and true.” 6 And He told me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life. 7 The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.
Huh? What are you talking about? Seriously I got no idea what you are going on about as per the context of what I said....this is nuts...I got no ideaDoes your context switching imply to this passage as well:
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
Did God really mean, instead that He creates the capacity for evil, but not the "evil" itself?
Let me give this a stab in the dark...I said that some things were created by introducing other things not by some magical act of creating and that the context of what I said shows this is what I was referring to...you know, reading for comprehension...and so you present this passage to try to prove that God created and introduced sin into the world despite the passages that tell us that man did...Does your context switching apply to this passage as well:
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
Did God really mean, instead that He creates the capacity for evil, but not the "evil" itself?
You stated "Man created evil" (not saying that you are wrong) I quoted a bible verse where the Lord says "I create evil"(Not saying that He is right). I was asking if you were able to introduce a context in which, what the Lord says should not be interpreted as is.......Like you were able to do with another scripture? Is this clearer to you?Huh? What are you talking about? Seriously I got no idea what you are going on about as per the context of what I said....this is nuts...I got no idea
as I said...read my comment in the context it was given not take it out of context and thus reinvent what I said...Man created suffering by introducing sin into our world...that is what I said...the rest was reinvented and you would be well served to ignore posters who reinvent and stick with what was really said....so do you also want to throw out the passages that tell us that man introduced sin into our world?You stated "Man created evil" (not saying that you are wrong) I quoted a bible verse where the Lord says "I create evil"(Not saying that He is right). I was asking if you were able to introduce a context in which, what the Lord says should not be interpreted as is.......Like you were able to do with another scripture? Is this clearer to you?
Just got your second reply after I posted mine......You cant agree with me, because i gave you nothing to agree or disagree with....Only quoted a scripture and asked a question.as I said...read my comment in the context it was given not take it out of context and thus reinvent what I said...Man created suffering by introducing sin into our world...that is what I said...the rest was reinvented and you would be well served to ignore posters who reinvent and stick with what was really said....so do you also want to throw out the passages that tell us that man introduced sin into our world?
lol so much I want to say but I will refrain...btw 2 Timothy 2:15 tells us to actually dig into the word and study it, there are ways to do that while insuring we have the right understanding, it's called rightly dividing the word.Just got your second reply after I posted mine......You cant agree with me, because i gave you nothing to agree or disagree with....Only quoted a scripture and asked a question.
further study would not be fruitful for me, as my carnal mind is enmity against God and it cannot understand the things of the spirit....And it is in spirit that God requires worship. I no longer wish to stand on my own understandings....so I much remove my sandals and go in with no thoughts.
I find no fault in anything you have said.
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