Dirk1540

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It is true, our brains or our physical minds does effect how we can act. I think that the physical mind is tied to the mind of the soul in some way. There could be two possibilities. One possibility is that when they are mentally gone or mentally crippled: Both the soul mind and and physical mind are hurt together, or.... the other possibility is: The soul mind is trapped from acting freely like it used to. The soul mind could be like in a coma or or a partial coma or something while the physical mind is crippled.
Yes I think they are tied together also. I don’t agree that the person literally becomes a different person when I say that a brain injury can result in a different personality. If God pulled ‘Me’ out of my body and put ‘Me’ into a body with physical brain damage it could result in intense psychological stresses that I’m not used to in my current body/brain.

My new brain would not come with a new ‘Me’, but it could break me and appear to result in a different me, just like traumatic events in my life might appear to result in a new me, but it would actually still be me. Inside of a damaged brain could consist of unexplainable anxieties, irritabilities (resulting in an angrier more confrontational me), confusion, paranoia, fears, a retreat into self pity knowing that my previous mental capacities are gone, etc. And I’ve seen this in mentally unstable people, this overwhelming feeling that something is terribly wrong, yet nothing to put their finger on as to why.

A person’s will power also factors in. On a scale of 1 to 10 if we’re talking about a level 5 brain injury, some people may have a breakdown of their previous personality, but some may cope with it fairly well. A level 8 brain injury however may have simply too much new mental stress for anyone to handle and remain their usual self. I also think that if ‘I’ were placed inside of someone like Elon Musk’s brain I would still be me, but I would all the sudden enjoy greater mental capacities and grasp concepts I never understood before, kind of like Bradly Cooper taking the Limitless pill...I would not start acting like Elon though I would still be me.

But these brain injury effects on personality & mental capabilities definitely makes me believe that ‘We’ are dormant beings outside of a body, like a memory stick no longer attached to a computer. This could also possibly explain soul sleep. So I don’t believe in something like property dualism.

So it’s interesting to think about the total opposite direction of the brain injury situation, an injury that makes you more irritable and angry. What if you are placed in a new body/brain where all the irritability & stresses are minimized from your current brain, as opposed to maximized?

Being placed inside of a new spiritual body might mean that it’s still ‘You’, but the physiology of this new body/brain has something that your current brain isn’t used to but in the opposite direction of the brain injury, a positive change not negative...an overwhelming sense of calmness, bliss, everything you experience in your greatest moods only 20 times more pleasant, all resulting in a non-existent irritable & angry version of you...yet it would still be you. This is something I think of when I try to imagine an afterlife where there’s a world living in peace. Because the world has always been so corrupt & violent so sometimes it’s hard to imagine how world peace would work (where free will also still existed).
 
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Butch5

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No I don't have it backwards....be a Berean Butch and answer all the red of my POV. I believe that "God is spirit" and not AIR, just like scripture says. Although lots of people do think God is just AIR....fortunately they're full of HOT AIR.


Yes, you do. It's something so simple you can find it in a lexicon. The definition you'll find is breath or wind and you'll find that spirit is a figurative use of pneuma. What is breath? It's the fundamental element of life. So when Scripture says, 'God is breath' It's saying that God is the fundamental element of life. Remember, the Hebrew and Greek speaking people didn't have the English word spirit in the vocabulary. The problem today is that people see the word spirit and import the 21st century definition back into the 1st century word pneuma, or the even older ruach.

It's funny that you tell me to be a Berean and then aren't yourself.

No again. I read that the FLESH of man was made from just created dirt. At that point that's all man was...dead dirt. Then God breathed a spirit into this flesh bucket and man became a flesh bucket which was 'now' animated to life with the power of the spirit. With the animation of the flesh the brain began to function and nerve signals went to the muscles of respiration and ADAM drew his first BREATH and became a 'breathing creature'. Then ADAM became a "living soul". That doesn't mean his soul was dead and is now alive. It means that after the spirit animated the life functions of the brain a soul was functioning. And as long as Adam was led of that spirit he was "a living soul." But the minute he ate of the tree of death, his soul became a dying soul. He wasn't dead the instant he bit. Scripture says "the soul that sins SHALL die" it doesn't say 'a soul that sins IS DEAD'. ADAM had an instant death sentence on his immortal living body and soul which now made him a 'dead man walking' and alive under that sentence.

Adam and Eve were both immortal and "living souls" because they were led of the Spirit and not of the flesh until they ate of the tree of death.

Part of that is correct. The passage doesn't say anything about Adam being lead by the spirit. It was the breath or spirit of life that gave him life. When the body was infused with the breath or spirit of life it "became" a living soul. Adam's body, infused with God's breath, became a living soul. He wasn't immortal. Paul tells us that the Father alone has immortality. Adam would live because he had access to the Tree of Life. However, after he ate from the Tree of Knowledge he was cast out of the garden and no longer had access to the Tree of Life, thus he would die. God specifically said He was casting Adam out so that he would not have access to the Tree of Life and live forever. We also know that the soul is the living person because Peter tells us that Christ gave His flesh for sins.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (1 Pet. 3:18 KJV)

And Isaiah tells us that Christ gave His soul for sins.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. (Isa. 53:10 KJV)

So the Scriptures clearly interchange the living body with the soul. If there is no body, there is no soul.

NO again, you just don't understand the difference between ANIMATING LIFE from the SPIRIT and MOTIVATING LIFE force from the SOUL.

I'm a doctor, someone alive because a respirator is keeping them breathing when their spirit has departed and their heart isn't beating are brain dead....and that dead is dead. When my dad flat lined on the respirator, and was pronounced dead, my aunt's misunderstanding of these things physical was much like your understanding of things spiritual, and she said "He can't be dead he's still breathing."
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You're right I don't understand, because the Scriptures teach no such thing. The life force is the breath or spirit of God, the soul is the living body. There is nothing in Scripture that speaks of the soul as a motivating life force.

Find me one scripture that says the FATHER HAS IMMORTALITY. Jesus yes, that's scriptural. But the FATHER???? quote it to me from scripture, and not through the indoctrinated veil of your religious soul/'brain at work'.

Sure.

13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. (1 Tim. 6:13-16 KJV)

In verse 13 Paul makes a distinction between God and Jesus. This obviously is the Father and Jesus. He then says that Jesus will show who is the blessed and only potentate. This potentate that Christ will show is one whom no man has seen, nor can see. This obviously isn't Jesus because plenty of men have seen Jesus. Paul says this one that Jesus is showing is the "Only" potentate. That can be no one other than the Father. However, we can go to the words of Jesus Himself.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. (Jn. 6:46 KJV)

So Jesus tells us that the one no man has seen is the Father. Paul, in his statement above tells us plainly that it is this one that no man has seen that is the only one who has immortality.

are YOU going to get IMMORTALITY from?

1CO 15:53 For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.

You are a Christian aren't you? Maybe you ought to think deeper than the orthodox lies of carnal minded theologians who thought up all the error that you and so many believe.

You didn't or you wouldn't have posted the passage. It's interesting that you tell me to think deeper. I actually spend a lot time reasoning through these things which why what I say fits with the Scriptures. You speak of the "lies of carnal minded theologians" and yet you give me things that aren't found in Scripture. The Scripture don't speak of the soul as the life force.

The Father alone has immortality, no one else. Everyone else dies. So, how do we reconcile Paul speaking about people seeking immortality if the Father is the only what who has it? It's pretty simply. The Father is the only one who has immortality inherently. All other life forms need to receive life from the Father. Jesus said that those who overcome will be given access to eat from the Tree of Life. By having this access one can live forever. Thus they will have immortality but it won't be inherent in their nature as it is with the Father.
 
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Butch5

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These things are cool to analyze alongside of Philosophy of Mind as well! I like thinking about the things you two are saying, for several reasons that I won’t get into I believe in dual attribute theory, the theory that ‘We’ are a separate non-physical being from our physical bodies, but that we are way more intimately connected to our bodies than that may sound...meaning that the actual composition of each person’s brain chemistry can have significant ‘Tugging effects’ on each person’s mood & personality, YET ‘They’ are still ‘Themselves.’

I believe in a core self that is influenced by your physical anatomy. I find it interesting that the Bible tells us that we must be clothed in new spiritual bodies, as opposed to claiming that we would just freely float out of our dead bodies and be the same. Well studies wouldn’t support such a thing, brain injuries can have significant affects on how a person acts.

What I find taught in the Scriptures is that man is a a physical dust creation that is infused with the breath of spirit of life from God. I liken it to a computer. You can build a computer and write an operating system but until you apply electricity to the computer it's just parts. I liken the machine to to the body, and the electricity to the breath of life from God. As longs as that electricity is flowing through the computer it can do amazing things. However, once the electricity is cut off it's just paper weight.
 
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Dirk1540

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What I find taught in the Scriptures is that man is a a physical dust creation that is infused with the breath of spirit of life from God. I liken it to a computer. You can build a computer and write an operating system but until you apply electricity to the computer it's just parts. I liken the machine to to the body, and the electricity to the breath of life from God. As longs as that electricity is flowing through the computer it can do amazing things. However, once the electricity is cut off it's just paper weight.
As I’ve been reading Philosophy of Mind, all the arguments & counter-arguments, it has been fun to just let go of all my opinions and let the arguments pull me wherever. I got pulled into physicalism for a bit...I then got yanked back into dualism lol
 
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