What is the Reformed view on tithing?

[AmericanSamurai]

Just want to clarify here.

 

[JM]

Its not a settled issue as far as I know.

Most churches ask that you sign or enter into covenant with them to proclaim the Gospel. Most church covenants include a statement of commitment to support the work of the ministry financially and this can differ from one group of churches to the next.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

Too many churches use it as a tool to guilt trip their congregation into giving more.

 

[AMR]

Too many churches use it as a tool to guilt trip their congregation into giving more.

Data to support the "too many"?

 

[AMR]

Covenanted members of the church should be encouraged to carefully reflect upon the example of Abraham and Jacob and decide if they wish to enter into such an arrangement with the Lord as their fathers in the faith voluntarily entered into.

Tithes such as these should go to faithful churches. Moreover any almsgiving would be additional to tithing. And both should not be done with fanfare (Matthew 6:1-4).

When speaking of the tithe, a portion should be used by the church to help poor church members and others with in the areas of health, education and welfare (HEW).

For persons already paying taxes to the state that are earmarked for HEW, they might consider, if so moved, calculating a corresponding reduction in their tithe to the church. Recall from Scripture that HEW was financed by the tithe, yet we do find little of these things being done by the church today. Obviously the ideal would be for the church to be much more concerned with HEW and the state much less so. As such, this would necessiate more faithful tithing by church members.

Worship by offerings is expected within the PCA. See the PCA BCO Chapter 54, for example:

54-1: The Holy Scriptures teach that God is the owner of all persons and
all things and that we are but stewards of both life and possessions; that
God’s ownership and our stewardship should be acknowledged; that this
acknowledgement should take the form, in part, of giving at least a tithe of
our income and other offerings to the work of the Lord through the Church of
Jesus Christ, thus worshipping the Lord with our possessions; and that the
remainder should be used as becomes Christians.

54-2. It is both a privilege and a duty, plainly enjoined in the Bible, to
make regular, weekly, systematic and proportionate offerings for the support
of religion and for the propagation of the Gospel in our own and foreign
lands, and for the relief of the poor. This should be done as an exercise of
grace and an act of worship, and at such time during the service as may be
deemed expedient by the Session.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

Okay, let me clarify, I guess I don't believe in tithing, I believe in giving as in New Testament giving as outlined in Corinthians.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

The arminian/Pentecostal/Charismatic/WOF churches I have been to emphasize the 10 percent as meeting the obligation.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

So if we have given 10 percent of our pay check, have we met the obligation?

I know he's not quite Reformed, but I know that John Macarthur doesn't believe in the 10 percent tithe.

 

[twin1954]

The tithe is a systen that obligates unbelieving rebels to give of their money. It was used in the Old Covenant in order to sustain the priesthood of Levites and to take care of widows and orphans. It must be remembered that most of those who were obligated to give tithes did it out of obligation and fear. That was because most of them were unbeliving rebels.

Now the true Israel of God doesn't need a law to coerce or obligate them to give. They give because they want to. And they give sacrificially. They don't need to be beat over the head or even reminded to give they just do. Remember that God doesn't need your money but He does does bless what we give. When a church or so-called ministry has to ask for money to continue it is a sure sign that God ain't in it. If God is in it He supports it.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Most churches ask that you sign or enter into covenant with them to proclaim the Gospel. Most church covenants include a statement of commitment to support the work of the ministry financially and this can differ from one group of churches to the next.

I see the above as just another path leading to legalism. Sounds innocent enough at first blush, honestly where is the Scriptural support for it? As far as I know, most of the Scripture used to support it comes from the Old Testament...it's sad how people will pick and choose from the Old Testament...and the New...you know the kind, "we're under the New Covenant, not the Old", of course, that also suggest God had a change of plans, or conflicts with the eternal Covenant of Redemption, the eternal plan of salvation, between the persons of the Trinity, with emphasis on the contractual agreement between the Father and the Son.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Too many churches use it as a tool to guilt trip their congregation into giving more.

You're probably right, and use it as a means to look down on lesser givers. What it does is make the people who can give the most, favorites. Of course those people don't mind, but for everyone else, it's belittling. And the favorites are more likely to have roles in Church government, and thereby run the Church as they see fit, perhaps within certain guidelines of overruling authorities.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

The arminian/Pentecostal/Charismatic/WOF churches I have been to emphasize the 10 percent as meeting the obligation.

In my parents limited experiences with local Churches, and it does not give me pleasure to say this, but it's been the Arminian Baptists who have especially emphasized the 10 percent obligation AND pledges. I must admit, nothing turns me off quicker from a Church, than legalistic preaching of tithes and pledges.

 

[bsd058]

In my parents limited experiences with local Churches, and it does not give me pleasure to say this, but it's been the Arminian Baptists who have especially emphasized the 10 percent obligation AND pledges. I must admit, nothing turns me off quicker from a Church, than legalistic preaching of tithes and pledges.

Didn't you get the memo from Creflo Dollar? Your tithes are what keep you in God's holy grace! your salvation depends on it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JM3BWAmlXis#

But I guess you can expect that from someone who doesn't believe Jesus is God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4LirHMPlnM

 

[needinganame]

I see it as my commitment to God, as Abraham returned unto God a portion of the blessings he had received. That portion being one tenth.

As I see it that sets the stage in my mind. This is where it all begins. There is more to it, it leads to greater things. But I'm trying to limit the size of my post. Others can refer you to Scriptural reference.

It's a discipline. A commitment to/of your faith. Money is one of the most tightly held resources we have. Or maybe I should say it can be the greatest example of selfishness. We want to save it. We want to eat too much or too well. We want to buy that newest, greatest most awesomest toy.

If we have the discipline to set aside the first tenth of the fruits we harvest, and use it as tithe or for the work of the Lord, it continues our relationship to learn and endure. We discipline ourselves to live on the remainder. God has been faithful to us, blessing us with talents used to earn a salary. I don't want to overlook the faith He has held on me. I want to tithe and continue my relationship in Him.

We have a good Church trying to get off the ground. The pastor works hard and has a desire to fulfill his duties. We need to keep the rent paid so others may join us in worship. We have programs and missions we commit to and pursue. As I see it this is all God's work. It requires money and time. That is just how it works.

Apologetic Warrior commented about the measurement aspect of tithing. Yes, I can agree with his comments. I was active in a church where that was the case. And that is where things get out of hand, we lose our humility at that point. And once we begin down that road of self-righteousness and pride it is difficult to overcome. We have lost sight of the true mission of Christ.

I think we are called to hold ourselves accountable to God. And there are times others need to help us with our accountability. In that sense, and for the logistics of the finance committee needing to define a budget, I can agree with the philosophy of pledging a tithe (tithe contract) and/or offering to the church. But this can be where things go down the wrong road.

But I've known folks with wealth that more or less refuse to make that commitment of tithe, and I can reflect on the passage Matt 19:24. It is not my judgment that person prefers to waste his or her money or that he or she is greedy, but rather that there is work of the Lord that could be done instead with those funds - a greater purpose where that person could be become a part of the glory of God's work. I cannot say that I have read where God demands a tithe, but the example of tithe is repeated throughout Scripture. I would sooner humble myself to fulfill my tithe commitment to the Lord than step up to the next best cell phone plan, a vacation for my deserving wife, take on a new car payment instead of repairing the van that gets us around just fine. When I get a raise or a step up on my career those luxuries and also greater giving may be something I can consider.

I believe the discipline of sound personal finance management gives honor to the Lord. The commitment of tithe is a solid step towards your relationship in Christ.

 

[needinganame]

Now the true Israel of God doesn't need a law to coerce or obligate them to give. They give because they want to. And they give sacrificially. They don't need to be beat over the head or even reminded to give they just do. Remember that God doesn't need your money but He does does bless what we give. When a church or so-called ministry has to ask for money to continue it is a sure sign that God ain't in it. If God is in it He supports it.

I will agree. However the subject of tithe and sacrifice is an important part of the Scriptures. Therefore it should be taught (preached). It may sound like asking for money, however a good pastor will either struggle with the sermon out of humility or or deliver the message with grace.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

I believe the discipline of sound personal finance management gives honor to the Lord. The commitment of tithe is a solid step towards your relationship in Christ.

Then based on that formulaic religionism, why not add: reading your Bible for 2 hours a day(Must be at 5am); keeping the Sabbath by worshipping on Saturday(not Sunday), Baptism must be by immersion(not a splash of water from a cup), Must be circumcised (MUST!), no cutting off beards and no cutting hair.... etc., etc. and many more. After all, lots of other things were mentioned throughout the Bible, not just tithing.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

However the subject of tithe and sacrifice is an important part of the Scriptures. Therefore it should be taught (preached). It may sound like asking for money, however a good pastor will either struggle with the sermon out of humility or or deliver the message with grace.

Again, I will say that unfortunately, for the vast majority of Preachers out there (whom God did not call to preach) are preaching incorrectly to satisfy their own wicked desires and fatten their bank accounts. Its an easy way to guilt trip the average congregation who is downright devoid of discernment and ignorant of the scriptures into forking over their money.

 

[needinganame]

Then based on that formulaic religionism, why not add: reading your Bible for 2 hours a day(Must be at 5am)

Well, I've done that

keeping the Sabbath by worshipping on Saturday(not Sunday)

I think that's covered in some respects of the WCF 21, paragraph 7

Baptism must be by immersion(not a splash of water from a cup), Must be circumcised (MUST!), no cutting off beards and no cutting hair.... etc., etc. and many more. After all, lots of other things were mentioned throughout the Bible, not just tithing.

I think the remainder of these concerns are in WCF chapter 28.

I think a lot of men dedicated their time to establishing the Westminster Confessions of Faith. It's all justified through their interpretations of scriptureI can only imagine how much time they spent in study and argument.

I haven't seen where tithe is covered.

The question was "what is the Reformed View of tithing", so I guess where it isn't clearly stated in the WCF, I was offering my opinion. I believe tithing can be dealt with in a humbling manner before the Lord to administer the works of His Church.

 

[needinganame]

Again, I will say that unfortunately, for the vast majority of Preachers out there (whom God did not call to preach)
are preaching incorrectly to satisfy their own wicked desires and fatten their bank accounts. Its an easy way to guilt trip the average congregation who is downright devoid of discernment and ignorant of the scriptures into forking over their money.

Whether or not a "preacher" has truly been given the Call is between him and Christ, not you and me. You and I both understand that sooner or later his day of Judgment will come.

If you are in a church where this is the case, speak up or leave. If you are that upset about it, there's a good reason. I think we're given the authority of our tithes and offerings to ensure they are put to good use. We may not be able to get it back, however you can either stop their inflows or take it to council.

I think I see where you are going with this, and I'll agree we all need to be careful. And I believe prayerful consideration is always justified.

 

[JM]

I see the above as just another path leading to legalism. Sounds innocent enough at first blush, honestly where is the Scriptural support for it? As far as I know, most of the Scripture used to support it comes from the Old Testament...it's sad how people will pick and choose from the Old Testament...and the New...you know the kind, "we're under the New Covenant, not the Old", of course, that also suggest God had a change of plans, or conflicts with the eternal Covenant of Redemption, the eternal plan of salvation, between the persons of the Trinity, with emphasis on the contractual agreement between the Father and the Son.

AW,

All things can lead to legalism, anything can be abused, but we shouldn't avoid doing them just because they might lead to sin...that's the essence of legalism.Creating a rule to avoid doing something just because it might lead to sin.

The covenant I signed was a voluntary covenant and scripture has many examples of them. We should distinguish between Law and Gospel and not Old Testament/New Testament...which is a man made distinction that I see leads to antinomianim.