What is the purpose behind an eternal hell?

[Archaeopteryx]

As you can see, we were talking about the word faith and I defined it, you said it wasn't what was practiced by religionists (a strange word) and I asked what you did see. You then change the discussion from faith to demonstrating knowledge of the Divine and absolute truth. Now my point was about faith as a theist views it and how you would see it.

No, I didn't "change the discussion." I answered your question about faith.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Jesus Christ then
came as our Perfect sacrifice.

The definition of scapegoating.

You need the holy God as the example and to set the standards/
law and punishment.

No you don't. If you think you need someone to tell you what is good or bad then you aren't really a moral person.

People think if they are believers in Jesus Christ that someday
they will just die and be gone. Yet, the Bible tells us they will die
again - as in the second death and it will hurt. The Christians will
not be hurt of the second death. So there must be life after the first death or people couldn't die a second time when cast into
the lake of fire.

Another circular argument. What evidence do you have that any of this is true? Using the bible as your evidence is just going around in circles. It is the claim, not the evidence. Try again.

The Bible tells us about that and even how
we and animals and more began.

And we know that is a myth and not a literal story. It is falsified by the overwhelming evidence for evolution.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

Before I begin, I understand there are different views on hell, but I only wish to discuss one....eternal conscious torment. Personally, I have started to break away from this view, but if there is any truth to it I want to discuss it. That said, for those of you who hold to this view, what purpose do you see in the design of such a place? Throughout scripture, for the most part, I can see that God has a method and reason to his laws and punishments. With that in mind, what purpose does burning someone alive in unquenchable fire for all eternity accomplish? Why did God choose fire for the punishment? Why is it forever instead of a finite amount of time? Please be respectful and on point regarding this topic.

You'll understand if I make note that you inquire about separation from God here, and yet you don't wish to discuss the actual scripture prior to the errant one that refers to eternal fire. You fear that, yes?

When you die, when I die, the spirit that God gave us returns to the God that gave it.

The unredeemed, the unbelievers in the truth of God which Christ taught, are separated from God for eternity. True, all things are God and there can really be no actual separation when everything there is everywhere is the essence of God. However, maybe picture it as antimatter. Those who die without Christ , the second death, enter the void. No conscious awareness of unity with God.
Jesus was a Jew. He taught in the temple as a child. Jews do not believe in Hell, fire , brimstone. Their teaching that Jesus was well aware of was that of Sheol. Not a place of fire and brimstone, sulfur,a bottomless pit with fire and brimstone? Bottomless but with fire and brimstone?

You ask what is the purpose behind an eternal Hell like you describe and believe it to be? That isn't the actual afterlife place in Hebrew scriptures.
Therefore, the purpose behind that description is fear. Terror. Emotional distress.
That's not the first truth. SCRIPTURES =SHEOL

 

[Four Angels Standing]

The definition of scapegoating.

More like the sacrificial lamb.

No you don't. If you think you need someone to tell you what is good or bad then you aren't really a moral person.

Were you born with your sense of morality?

And we know that is a myth and not a literal story. It is falsified by the overwhelming evidence for evolution.

"We" do? What is the mathematical formula that proves evolution is true?

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

More like the sacrificial lamb.

Yes, scapegoating. Throw your sins onto someone else.

Were you born with your sense of morality?

Taught to me by my parents and learned through experiences. I have empathy and the ability to understand how my actions affect other people.

"We" do? What is the mathematical formula that proves evolution is true?

Evolution is the foundation of modern biology. It's not math. That's like asking what mathematical formula do we use to convict murderers. We follow evidence to the logical conclusion. The evidence is overwhelming. This thread isn't about evolution. Let's not take it off topic.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

Yes, scapegoating. Throw your sins onto someone else.

Jesus was the sacrificial lamb.

Taught to me by my parents and learned through experiences. I have empathy and the ability to understand how my actions affect other people.

<This reply then refutes your prior declaration concerning morality: "If you think you need someone to tell you what is good or bad then you aren't really a moral person."

Evolution is the foundation of modern biology. It's not math. That's like asking what mathematical formula do we use to convict murderers. We follow evidence to the logical conclusion. The evidence is overwhelming. This thread isn't about evolution. Let's not take it off topic.

There are plenty of scientists that patronize this board. I'm pretty sure they will tell you in the forum they frequent here that virtually every accepted scientific theory has a mathematical formula to support it.

 

[Oncedeceived]

No, I didn't "change the discussion." I answered your question about faith.

How did you answer my question?

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Jesus was the sacrificial lamb.

So the only way to forgive sins is to have someone brutally tortured and killed? That is not moral.

<This reply then refutes your prior declaration concerning morality: "If you think you need someone to tell you what is good or bad then you aren't really a moral person."

I should have been more clear. I do not need a God to explain what is right and wrong. If there was no 10 commandments, would you understand that killing someone is wrong?

There are plenty of scientists that patronize this board. I'm pretty sure they will tell you in the forum they frequent here that virtually every accepted scientific theory has a mathematical formula to support it.

I am no scientist but I do not need a mathematical model in order to understand that evolution is a fact. The evidence from several independent disciplines is overwhelming. DNA and genetics is the slam dunk.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

So the only way to forgive sins is to have someone brutally tortured and killed? That is not moral.

Of course it was if someone is aware of the sacrificial system of the Jews at the time of Christ.
Symbolism, Jesus was the unblemished lamb. Born for the purpose of being the last sacrifice for sins so that all any had to do after that is to believe in his birth, his life, the teachings he gave during his life, and that he died so as to cleanse us from our own unrighteousness. So that God remembers our sins no more. And we are washed clean in the blood of the lamb. Reborn anew and precious in his sight.

I should have been more clear. I do not need a God to explain what is right and wrong. If there was no 10 commandments, would you understand that killing someone is wrong?

You said what you said.
The people of God knew that killing was wrong before the 10 commandments. The ten commandments are again a symbol. Carved in stone the moral laws of God. Carved in stone at the time of Christ was a way to insure what was written, carved, would remain for what was perceived as all time.
Later, when Jesus the promised Messiah, the deliverer, arrived God's laws were imputed on the heart and in the minds of the believers. The moral laws that Jesus reiterated in his ministry being he was the Lord of the Sabbath. He was the God that created all things in the beginning and on the seventh day took his rest.

I am no scientist but I do not need a mathematical model in order to understand that evolution is a fact. The evidence from several independent disciplines is overwhelming. DNA and genetics is the slam dunk.

That's why evolutionists refer to evolution as a theory? Because it is a fact?

Richard Dawkins, a published avowed atheist now says he's a secular Christian.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[JonFromMinnesota]

Symbolism, Jesus was the unblemished lamb. Born for the purpose of being the last sacrifice for sins so that all any had to do after that is to believe in his birth, his life, the teachings he gave during his life, and that he died so as to cleanse us from our own unrighteousness.

So the only way to be cleansed of unrighteousness is for someone to be brutally tortured and killed? This is nonsense.
If you wrong someone, you do your best to correct that wrong, accept the consequences of your actions and do your best to be a better person. Nobody has to die. Human sacrifice is a deplorable idea.

That's why evolutionists refer to evolution as a theory? Because it is a fact?

You don't understand the definition of a theory in the scientific context. This demonstrates you do not know how science is done. A theory in science is defined as a well substantiated hypothesis of some aspect of the natural world, acquired by the scientific method. It is repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation. A theory in science is an explanation of facts.

Evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution is an explanation of the facts. Germs are a fact, the germ theory of disease is an explanation of those facts. Gravity is a theory. The theory of general relativity is an explanation of those facts.

Richard Dawkins, a published avowed atheist now says he's a secular Christian.

Do you know what he means when he says this? What does this have to do with anything anyway? The majority of Christians accept evolution. Atheism and evolution are not the same thing.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

You mean like how?
Man has a body, soul, spirit....beasts have - a spirit that goes
downward.
We have eternal existence-beasts don't.
We both came from dust and will return to dust after death.
But - we will participate in one of two resurrections.
We are created in God's image.

A lot of claims here but of course no evidence. Could you try to construct an argument instead of making unsubstantiated claims?

 

[Davian]

Why would the Bible tell us that you can die in your sins?

I presume the Bible was written in a fashion so as to promote the religion(s) that are based on it.

If every thought, pain, memory was over, then would it
matter if you died as saved or in your sins?

No.

There must be
reward and punishment to come after death.

I see no reason why there must be. The Bible could simply be wrong.

What would the "punishment" be for, specifically?

 

[Davian]

What do you think about NDEs? near-death experiences

An interesting phenomenon that happens when brains are temporarily deprived of oxygen.

Why do you ask?

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Davian]

How can some people know certain events happened or be
aware of some things that took place unless they are not
still in their body? such as actions by others in another place
in a hospital?

When did this happen, and how did they scientifically verify it?

 

[Hoghead1]

More like the sacrificial lamb.



Were you born with your sense of morality?







"We" do? What is the mathematical formula that proves evolution is true?

Evolution is not based on math and doesn't need to be. It is based on hared evidence, the fossils, etc. Math formulas, in any science, follow from the hard data and so are not the foundation of any science.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

There are plenty of scientists that patronize this board. I'm pretty sure they will tell you in the forum they frequent here that virtually every accepted scientific theory has a mathematical formula to support it.

This is inaccurate. Where relevant and useful, mathematical formulae tend to describe theories, not support them. As an example, the formula E=MC^2 describes the relationship between matter and energy in special relativity. It doesn't support the theory; it expresses it mathematically.