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What is the purpose behind an eternal hell?
- Thread starter Ultima4257
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DogmaHunter
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What exactly is so "best" about it?
How does the killing of one, absolve the crimes of another?
It just doesn't make any sense.
Also, if jesus is god (an all powerfull, all knowing, immortal entity), then what exactly did he sacrifice??
Why must it be through a sacrifice at all?
Why can't this all-powerfull being not simply say "you know, you have good intentions... I forgive you and won't subject you to eternal torture"?
Why must it be through the brutal bloodshed of a human body?
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All your questions can be answered...but I have to think you're not allowed to accept them.
You asked "How does the killing of one, absolve the crimes of another?"....have you ever heard of imputation?
When you described some of Jesus' charcateristics "all powerfull, all knowing, immortal entity" you left out His humanity. Do you think that might have something to do with it?
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DogmaHunter
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Then answer them... I've been asking these question for several pages now.
"allowed"? What does that even mean?
"In statistics, imputation is the process of replacing missing data with substituted values."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imputation_(statistics)
How is that relevant to punishing a scapegoat for the crimes of another?
I didn't leave it out. In fact, previously in this thread, I actually included it and was told that jesus wasn't human, but god himself.
How does any of this relate to the idea that punishing a scapegoat to absolve others from their crimes, is "justice" and fair? Or even at all necessary?
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DogmaHunter
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Several points...
1. who thought it was a good idea to put the "serpent", the very embodiment of Evil, in the garden with 2 "clean sheets" that would have been easily manipulated into disobedience? God.
This is the equivalent of leaving a loaded gun in the a room with a 4-year old and then punishing the 4-year old for firing it. The child isn't at fault here. It's the adult that kept a loaded gun within reach of the child.
2. If the tree was "forbidden", then why even put it in the garden in the first place?? Who put that tree there again? Right: god.
3. Let's say that it's fair to punish Eve. Ok. Then punish Eve. Who did the crime? Eve. But who actually gets punished? Everybody. You and I didn't eat from the "forbidden tree". Yet, we get the punishment. So here, god is holding off spring responsible for the crimes of long dead ancestors. This is the equivalent of putting Hitler's grand, grand, grand, grand, grand,.... grand-children in jail for the crimes of Adolf. Who was it again, then condemned all Eve's off spring? Right: god. Did he have to do that? Nope. He could have just punished Eve. He didn't. He went completely overboard and doomed all humans, because some woman ate some piece of fruit. Awesome.
None of us are responsible for anything our ancestors did. But this god of yours does hold us responsible. That's his own doing. So, this act of vile injustice then lead to a world where ALL HUMANS are doomed by default. Again, not because of anything these humans actually did. Nope. There "crime": being born as a descendend of Eve.
So now, this "all powerfull, benevolent, all-knowing" god finds himself in a situation where he created a system with rules that dooms every single human. "but he loves us so...".
He could just change the rules, being all-powerfull and all. He could just "lift" the doom. He could just state "you know what? Perhaps it isn't fair that all you people are doomed for something some woman did thousands of years ago...".
But no... instead, he finds a "loophole", where he sacrifices himself to himself to save us from himself. As if that changes anything.
Errrr............
How is demanding "love" by threat of eternal punishment, not "forced love"????
Really? He is god. An all-powerfull entity. I'ld assume this makes him more powerfull then the devil, right?
Meaning that he could destroy this devil with but a snap of the fingers. He could look him up for eternity. He could do any number of things to "shut him up" and remove him from existence.
But no....... he puts him in the garden, with two easily manipulated clean sheets. And then he gets surprised that they were actually manipulated...
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DogmaHunter
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If he wants to save us from the devil... I'ld say he'ld be more succesfull by simply killing the devil, instead of himself......
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This is starting to become a classic. Where do y'all get this stuff from?
LOL, very hard to see how anyone can possibly believe that is a fact. Just spend 5 minutes on the boards here and see. Actually, you've already done that and really should know better.
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Your entire post there was a good one.
I'm not really sure either... this Hell thing and what exactly the punishment entails could go a few ways. Most things are pretty clear in the Bible as I see it, but it's as if this subject was to keep us wondering by design.
John 3:16 indicates one possibility is we perish or that we are destroyed, and that I suppose anyway, could still fit in with eternal punishment as in perishing is eternal, or being punished for eternity or everlasting punishment. But again, it could go so many ways it doesn't surprise me this thread turned into a what is hell as much as it has what the OP intended.
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toLiJC
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the "fire" is the force that may chasten contingently damned souls, it may not necessarily be fire in the literal sense of the word, while the "brimstone" is the scheme under which their punishment may go on according to the just judgment of God - it may be strictly different(unique) for each of them, because every such soul may be punished according to their deeds, and it may not necessarily include smell of sulfur
the purpose of the so-called "lake of fire" is the manifestations of the "darkness", such as satan, the "beast", the "death", the "devils", etc., to be closed and locked in it so that they may no longer affect the creatures of God, most important of which are the humans, and, in general, the souls
the "death" and the "hell" are the two main manifestation of (the) deterioration, it is about deterioration as a whole, the pain is a deterioration, the loss/lack of ability is a deterioration, the disability is a deterioration, the infectious and degenerative diseases are a deterioration, the mental disorders are also a deterioration, the depression is a deterioration, the moral degeneration is also a deterioration, there has also been a spiritual deterioration, etc., the "hell" is the second "death" in a similar way the "beast" is the second "devil"
the purpose of faith is all human and other (be)souled beings and souls, or at least as many of them as possible, to be saved so that there may be no more/longer sufferings and other kinds of deterioration for them
Blessings
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I don't really intend to play your games. You intentially tried to muddy the waters by presenting a meaning for imputation that is not inline with the biblical definition.
Now, if you were actually serious in learning I would have expected you to post something like the following:
Imputation "is used to designate any action or word or thing as reckoned to a person. Thus in doctrinal language (1) the sin of Adam is imputed to all his descendants, i.e., it is reckoned as theirs, and they are dealt with therefore as guilty; (2) the righteousness of Christ is imputed to them that believe in him, or so attributed to them as to be considered their own; and (3) our sins are imputed to Christ, i.e., he assumed our 'law-place,' undertook to answer the demands of justice for our sins. In all these cases the nature of imputation is the same (Rom. 5:12-19; comp. Philemon 1:18, 19)."
....I trust you see and understand the difference.
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