What is the point.......

[pleinmont]

The human conscience is part of the human mind a complicated organ, part of the evolutionary process, imo.

 

[Charlie24]

The human conscience is part of the human mind a complicated organ, part of the evolutionary process, imo.

It's amazing how evolution explains all these complicated organs.

That is some more kinda process, wouldn't you say?

 

[pleinmont]

It's amazing how evolution explains all these complicated organs.

That is some more kinda process, wouldn't you say?

I think science is much more reliable than religion.

 

[muichimotsu]

I can plainly see why you are not a Christian. I wouldn't be either if I believed all this.

What? That your bible is demonstrably wrong even on things you have flat out claimed it cannot be wrong about? That's double think, you're engaging in cognitive dissonance now to suggest that I'm in the wrong and you're somehow right in your thinking even when I point it out in a way any independent observer can side with me based on the facts

 

[muichimotsu]

It's amazing how evolution explains all these complicated organs.

That is some more kinda process, wouldn't you say?

No, that's a fallacious inference to agency, it's an amazing process, but it doesn't require a mind behind it, only a mind to analyze and understand it in the way we do

 

[muichimotsu]

Have you ever did something you were sorry of? Something where your conscience told you that was wrong?

If so, where do you think that came from?

It comes from an understanding of the consequences and the vice that it reflects in my behavior if I continue in doing so. My anger broke my laptop screen and I understand that it's something I should try to rein in and understand the major issues there, it doesn't require some external source to correct me, but basic observation of my actions and their consequences

 

[Albion]

…….of having a religion unless it makes you a better person?

I know many Christians, the religion with which I am most familiar having been one myself. Some are very decent people whilst others are very untrustworthy. The ones who go on about being saved or burning in hell seem to be the most unpleasant. Good deeds are a much more important than words, especially ones which have no evidence to support them, which much of what is written in the Bible doesn't.

There doesn't seem to be much here to debate.

Yes indeed, being a Christian does mean amending one's life and aspiring to a life of charity, etc. The fact that there are church members who do not do this does not in any way mean that there is anything wrong with the religion or its tenets.

For that matter, I cannot think of any organization of humans--military, fraternal, political, religious, or whatever--that is completely without some "bad apples."

 

[pleinmont]

You don't have to be religious to be a good, caring person.

 

[Ken-1122]

…….of having a religion unless it makes you a better person?

Most of the religions I know of, belief is the utmost importance; being a good person is secondary; often considered a byproduct of belief.

Good deeds are a much more important than words, especially ones which have no evidence to support them, which much of what is written in the Bible doesn't.

That's your subjective view, which is probably why you aren't Christian anymore. They see things a little different than you.

 

[pleinmont]

Most of the religions I know of, belief is the utmost importance; being a good person is secondary; often considered a byproduct of belief.


That's your subjective view, which is probably why you aren't Christian anymore. They see things a little different than you.

Surely being a good person should be more important than religion.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Surely being a good person should be more important than religion.

Why would it? It could be that neither religion nor being good is 'more important.' Besides, what is it to be a 'good' antelope or a 'good' lion?

 

[pleinmont]

Why would it? It could be that neither religion nor being good is 'more important.' Besides, what is it to be a 'good' antelope or a 'good' lion?

So it is ok to be religious and a bad person like paedophile priests for example?

 

[Albion]

Surely being a good person should be more important than religion.

Not necessarily.

For one thing, what defines "being a good person?"

In our society, the people who are adamant that "being a good person" takes precedence over "religion" usually define "good" in accordance with what the religion we call Christianity has determined to be "good." Most of the time, those people don't even recognize this reality.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So it is ok to be religious and a bad person like paedophile priests for example?

Interesting that you ask. I was just talking about that on another thread here on CF, over in the apologetics section.

Be that as it may, if we take into account the entirety of what is said in the New Testament, the answer is a hardy, "NO!" It isn't 'ok' to be religious and a bad person ... In fact, it should usually be an instance for a person, whoever he or she may be, to be in Fear of God, because God's not going to just 'let it all go' in the long run.

 

[pleinmont]

Interesting that you ask. I was just talking about that on another thread here on CF, over in the apologetics section.

Be that as it may, if we take into account the entirety of what is said in the New Testament, the answer is a hardy, "NO!" It isn't 'ok' to be religious and a bad person ... In fact, it should usually be an instance for a person, whoever he or she may be, to be in Fear of God, because God's not going to just 'let it all go' in the long run.

God, if it exists, shouldn't be something to fear.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

God, if it exists, shouldn't be something to fear.

So then, neither should thousands of court judges, even if they exist.

 

[Monksailor]

…….of having a religion unless it makes you a better person?

I know many Christians, the religion with which I am most familiar having been one myself. Some are very decent people whilst others are very untrustworthy. The ones who go on about being saved or burning in hell seem to be the most unpleasant. Good deeds are a much more important than words, especially ones which have no evidence to support them, which much of what is written in the Bible doesn't.

Well, it seems to afford some the loftiness to circumvent dealing with their own sinful condition and point their finger at all the hypocrites who belong to EVERY group of humans, by the way. It gives them a lot to talk about.

 

[Halbhh]

…….of having a religion unless it makes you a better person?

I know many Christians, the religion with which I am most familiar having been one myself. Some are very decent people whilst others are very untrustworthy. The ones who go on about being saved or burning in hell seem to be the most unpleasant. Good deeds are a much more important than words, especially ones which have no evidence to support them, which much of what is written in the Bible doesn't.

Unless they do become a 'better person', after some significant times passes, like only years even (say, less than 5), then they aren't yet being Christ following, aren't yet showing the fruit of being His. In effect, probably not yet saved, or at least in great danger --

6 Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’

8 “ ‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’ ”
Luke 13 NIV

Yes, "cut it down" means just what it sounds like it means.

------
It's not a safe place to think to oneself that one is justified and routinely ignore one's conscience/feeling of guilt or dismiss it by saying "I'm saved" or "Christ died for all of my sins, even those in the future" as if you can do significant wrongs (like slanderous gossip many do, for instance) and that such wrongs are ok, and it means nothing....

It's not safe to do nothing about the feeling of guilt from real wrongs done last week or last year like repeating disparaging gossip, or condemning people (which Christ specifically commanded us to not do).

Instead, those that will make it will do what they are supposed to do then, the confessing, admitting to God their wrong, and thus being changed! (after that true, heart felt or genuine confession) (1rst John chapter 1 and 2)

 

[Ken-1122]

Surely being a good person should be more important than religion.

That's your view, and that's my view; but we are not religious people. Often religious people have a different idea of what it means to be good than we have; their view of good is often colored by their religion of choice.

 

[durangodawood]

…….of having a religion unless it makes you a better person?

I know many Christians, the religion with which I am most familiar having been one myself. Some are very decent people whilst others are very untrustworthy. The ones who go on about being saved or burning in hell seem to be the most unpleasant. Good deeds are a much more important than words, especially ones which have no evidence to support them, which much of what is written in the Bible doesn't.

I thought the point of Christianity is to advance to heaven.

Whether youre a good person or not is secondary.