How can they willfully reject the Gospel if the only way to respond to the Gospel is to be called? If one has no choice in accepting or rejecting the Gospel, then there is no willfulness on their part.
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What is the point?
- Thread starter SPB1987
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How can they willfully reject the Gospel if the only way to respond to the Gospel is to be called? If one has no choice in accepting or rejecting the Gospel, then there is no willfulness on their part.
Strange how I read Welsh's book on "Conversations with God". I had to throw that down when the author stated that even Hitler is in Heaven. When I returned to the book after my shock, the figured out what the new agers meant by "Group consciousness". When I view the parade films in Germany, I learned and saw happy happy celebrating actions of group consciousness. That means the people of Germany, as well, made Hitler do his thing. We all need to extend on how things happen to get there like God allowed David's brother to do evil and turned David in to prison (could have died there) where the King discovered David and liked him and made him the king of Israel that brought Jesus to save the elect's behinds. What if Judas didn't turn Jesus in, then Jesus wouldn't have went to the cross like God said, "Opps !, I thought the crucifixion was gonna happen. Sorry folks Heaven is closed."
So picking on logic with extreme narrow point of focus is like American politics where everyone blames Obama while the people, together, really made things happen over time. So the blaming game don't work when we leave God out of them and not give Him time to do His Own Pleasure.
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I basically answered this is on your other question ... Post 9 - http://www.christianforums.com/t7723627/
The enemy of God does not desire to repent (which is a gift of grace - 2 Tim. 2:24-26, not given to all). They desire to stay in their own kingdom and submit themselves to their own ruler Satan, who offers no redemptive plan, but only short-sighted (see James) momentary earthly pleasures.
They continue to reject the Gospel by their sin. Their continual sin identifies who they are and to whom they belong - John 8:44.
This aside, the ones that are saved (the elect) are saved by grace. It is undeserved. Though they do not deserve it, only they are called (according to God's purpose, place, and good pleasure - that is why it is called grace). Calling is only for God's kids. When you call out the front door that dinner is ready, you only call your kids, not every murderer, rapist, molester, etc. God's calling is only for his kids (those to whom the righteousness of Christ has been imputed, etc). His voice is distinctive and his elect know it in his time ... John 10:4, 27 - the non-elect are "deaf" to this inward call, still dead in sins, blinded to the truth, by their master (2 Cor. 4:4).
The enemy of God does not desire to repent (which is a gift of grace - 2 Tim. 2:24-26, not given to all). They desire to stay in their own kingdom and submit themselves to their own ruler Satan, who offers no redemptive plan, but only short-sighted (see James) momentary earthly pleasures.
They continue to reject the Gospel by their sin. Their continual sin identifies who they are and to whom they belong - John 8:44.
This aside, the ones that are saved (the elect) are saved by grace. It is undeserved. Though they do not deserve it, only they are called (according to God's purpose, place, and good pleasure - that is why it is called grace). Calling is only for God's kids. When you call out the front door that dinner is ready, you only call your kids, not every murderer, rapist, molester, etc. God's calling is only for his kids (those to whom the righteousness of Christ has been imputed, etc). His voice is distinctive and his elect know it in his time ... John 10:4, 27 - the non-elect are "deaf" to this inward call, still dead in sins, blinded to the truth, by their master (2 Cor. 4:4).
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AMR
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[FONT="]While man has lost his ability to obey, God has not lost His right to command. Nor does man's inability to obey render the command ineffective. Regenerating grace breaks the heart of stone and inclines the renewed man to obedience.[/FONT]
[FONT="]De quod jubes et jibe quod vis[/FONT]
[FONT="]Is not God unjust to require what men do not have the ability to perform? I answer:[/FONT]
[FONT="] Yes, God is unjust, unless He first gave the ability to perform what He requires.[/FONT]
[FONT="] Yes, God is unjust, unless man, by his own will, brought this inability upon himself.[/FONT]
[FONT="] Yes, God is unjust in requiring that which man cannot perform, unless such a requirement which is impossible to meet is designed to lead him to acknowledge and deplore his inability.[/FONT]
[FONT="]This is the real problem with the multitude of efforts by those who come running on the scene of human turmoil with this sentimental pity for man in his present condition. They immediately begin to charge God with being unjust.[/FONT]
[FONT="]When we see sickness, death, war, pain, murder, rape, robbery, and lawlessness we ask, “How did this come about?” The answer is: Sin! Sin! Sin! Man’s sin! How did the prodigal son come to feeding pigs? By living in sin![/FONT]
[FONT="]If I believed that God made man like he is, and then condemned him for what he is, I would curse God and die—such a God would be a monster. But instead, “Truly, this only I have found: that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes” (Eccl. 7:29).[/FONT]
[FONT="]Who but God can fully comprehend how an action that was known of God before it was done can be freely performed by man? However, our inability to understand how something should actually come to be is not sufficient ground for affirming that it cannot be.[/FONT]
[FONT="]It should not surprise us or discourage us that there is divine foreknowledge of all human actions on the one hand and free agency on the other hand.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We have a similar problem with God’s commanding men to do what they do not have the will or ability to do since they must act in accordance with their nature. For example, when God commanded Lazarus to “come forth from the grave,” he was dead and did not have the ability to obey or respond to our Lord’s command—unless God did something for him.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Another example is the poor man in the gospels who had been powerless for thirty-eight years and had no native ability to obey our Lord’s command to “take up your bed and walk.” The power came from the one who gave the command.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We are considering these two truths:
[/FONT]
[FONT="](1) Man is a free agent and is responsible for his actions;
[/FONT]
[FONT="](2) Man’s actions are foreknown by an omniscient God.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Both of these truths are clearly set out in the Holy Scripture many times in the same verse. For example, in Acts 2:23 we read, “Him [Christ], being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death” (emphasis mine).[/FONT]
[FONT="]This verse clearly teaches that the crucifixion of our Lord was planned, predicted, and determined before it happened and all the devils in hell or men on earth could not keep Jesus from the cross—it was determined by a sovereign God. Yet at the same time, wicked men—acting freely—were charged with this wicked act.[/FONT]
[FONT="]In Acts 4:24—30, God puts these two truths side by side without apology or explanation. Here this apparent contradiction and seeming conflict is expressed in a prayer.[/FONT]
[FONT="] “So when they heard that, they raised their voice to God with one accord and said: ‘Lord, You are God, who made heaven and earth and the sea, and all that is in them, who by the mouth of Your servant David have said: “Why did the nations rage, and the people plot vain things? The kings of the earth took their stand, and the rulers were gathered together against the LORD and against His Christ.” For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done. Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”[/FONT]
[FONT="]Peter and John were in prison when they prayed this prayer. Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were said to be carrying out what God had purposed and determined was to be done before it was actually done.[/FONT]
[FONT="]In the first truth we see that God is one hundred percent sovereign in planning and determining. At the same time the verse teaches that wicked men are one hundred percent responsible for their wicked deeds.[/FONT]
[FONT="]If we examine these two truths separately, we will conclude that from Genesis to Revelation the Bible teaches that the God of the Bible is one hundred percent sovereign—sovereign in creation, sovereign in redemption, and sovereign in providence—and that from Genesis to Revelation the Bible teaches that man is one hundred percent responsible for his sin. Therefore, we have no alternative but to believe both are true, even though with our finite minds we cannot reconcile them or harmonize them.[/FONT] We can readily accept the omnipotent God spoke the world into existence, but when it comes to our creaturely notions of autonomy some refuse to accept the same omnipotent God is capable of holding man responsible while being completely sovereign. Rather these persons would place God in the dock and attempt to hold him accountable and explain his actions. One need only look to Job for the proper answer to such scandalous nonsense.
[FONT="]When Charles Haddon Spurgeon was asked to reconcile these truths—God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility— he said, “I never try to reconcile friends—they are both in the Bible.”[/FONT]
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HereIstand.Todd
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I have heard it said by some that with regard to freewill and election that both are taught in the bible. Yes we have freewill but at the same time God chose the elect before the foundation of the world. So since both are taught then both are true and when we say that one is true and the other is not then we are in error. It must be a paradox and we we only fully understand it on the other side. I do not know all the answers and don;t pretend to. I do know that God is God and since he is then he must by his very nature be sovereign and know everything and is in control of everything. I am comforted in knowing he choose me and that brings a peace in my heart. I don;t understand the mechanics of it all. Perhaps its enough to be in a relationship with Him through Christ and to daily walk with him and not worry myself with all the mechanics behind it. I fall short each day of being who He wants me to be but so did Paul. Paul said he was the chief of sinners and I feel this way too. But I know if I confess my sin He is faithful to forgive by sin by and through the blood of Christ.
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DannyD2
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There is a different use of the understanding of the word "freedom" with regard to the will.
A common use of "freedom" outside of reformed groups tends to be approximately "the ability to choose otherwise." Meaning the will can chose whatever it wishes.
Reformed groups typically define freedom as "doing what one pleases." The heart before salvation is not pleased by the gospel so it freely does not wish salvation because salvation is not what pleases the heart.
Mainly depravity and the noetic effects of sin are linked into a coherent view of election.
A common use of "freedom" outside of reformed groups tends to be approximately "the ability to choose otherwise." Meaning the will can chose whatever it wishes.
Reformed groups typically define freedom as "doing what one pleases." The heart before salvation is not pleased by the gospel so it freely does not wish salvation because salvation is not what pleases the heart.
Mainly depravity and the noetic effects of sin are linked into a coherent view of election.
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AMR
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Scripture teaches us of the state of the lost.
The lost...
- is deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9);
- is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- is unrighteous, does not understand, does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12);
- is helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6);
- is dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3);
- cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
What do you think is the correct answer to your question now?
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AMR
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Given the total inability of the lost to do anything but hate God, it is God who must replace their heart of stone with a heart of flesh (Eze. 36:26), changing their state of spiritual death to one of life. So regenerated by the efficacious grace of God by the power of the Holy Spirit, the regenerated person will now and irrefutably believe. To God goes all the glory.
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