What is the Philosophy of Art?

Michie

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A classic example is Ray Bradbury and Fahrenheit 451. Bradbury wrote it as a comment on the effect of television. But when he explained this in a lecture at a college (maybe USC), the students told him it was about censorship. Bradbury was the author so he should know what it's about. But while I respected Bradbury's skill, he didn't successfully convey the meaning through the medium.

There are limits. There was a Charles Addams cartoon where his "Fester" character sat in movie theater. Everyone around him was sad and some were crying. "Fester," however, was clearly amused. What most found heart-wrenching, he found hilarious. That was the gag but is essentially "Fester" was seeing the film through his own lens.

Another cartoon, artist unknown: A couple is looking at a modern art sculpture of a stylized human figure with a large hole in the middle. The caption was "That reminds me: Did you pack the sandwiches?" The gag is both about modern art and the feelings it evokes, but there's the question of what the sculptor intended to evoke and did he or she succeed.

This isn't about blatant messaging: It's about conveying what the artist intends. A artist who intends to convey a sense of awe fails if most who see it giggle.

So much of art is also based on shared experience to convey a message, such as the "theatre of the mind" aspect of humorous cartooning. If the person who sees the art has a different shared experience, the meaning can be lost. On some carved atlatl throwers from Europe there's an odd motif on the end that fits into the spear socket. Photos I've seen of it are stunning but no one knows what it means. It could have been a prehistoric joke, possibly with crude humor connotations or maybe even a visual pun, but no one in our era knows. What the carvers wished to convey has been lost because we aren't of the same culture.

To be honest, much of art is and has been, what will sell. Douglas Adams penned in one of the Hitchhiker books "If it means taking the money and run, I for one could use the exercise," and that's probably what goes on most of the time.
All very good observations but there really is no right or wrong answers when it comes to art. Art while it might be trying to convey a message also very much depends on the individual’s eye. Looking and being moved by things rather than about knowing what it is supposed to convey. Where we are lifted out of the worries of life and taken elsewhere through an aesthetic. It’s called the aesthetic subconscious/emotion. I don’t know if anyone has read Clive Bell’s Art. But it discusses these topics in a very direct and concise way. It’s a very good read for those interested in this topic.
 
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Tuur

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I guess I tend to be technical. Most of my visual art has been drafting and mapping, and occasional cartooning. I need to do a book cover (for myself), and it's hard because I need to convey certain points in an aesthetically pleasing manner. Drafting and mapping is straightforward in the information that must be conveyed. Cartooning depends on the gag and how to present it. But beyond that, it becomes incredibly difficult, at least for me.

From a technical standpoint, church art has historically existed to convey the message of the gospels, and various events in the bible, but, in a cathedral, also to promote a sense of reverence (something we could stand more of in our era). For art for escapism, to convey a certain sense works, too. Most fiction is escapism, to take a reader's mind off his and her own troubles for a short time (Have heard it described as competing for Joe's beer money)

Aesthetics seems like something that intersects art, but something different. Once saw a chert hand ax that the maker had flaked off the edges but left a fossilized shell intact in the center. When I saw it, was struck by the sense of aesthetics that traveled the centuries, maybe even millennia, from the craftsman down to the present time. The person who picked up that piece of chert was likely struck by the beauty and unusual aspect of that shell and sought to preserve it while making a tool. Unfortunately, for aesthetics, I know what I like but not much more than that, which is why something like a book cover is hard for me.

Will have to check out Clive Bell's book Art. That said, I may not be able to grasp it.
 
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Michie

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I guess I tend to be technical. Most of my visual art has been drafting and mapping, and occasional cartooning. I need to do a book cover (for myself), and it's hard because I need to convey certain points in an aesthetically pleasing manner. Drafting and mapping is straightforward in the information that must be conveyed. Cartooning depends on the gag and how to present it. But beyond that, it becomes incredibly difficult, at least for me.

From a technical standpoint, church art has historically existed to convey the message of the gospels, and various events in the bible, but, in a cathedral, also to promote a sense of reverence (something we could stand more of in our era). For art for escapism, to convey a certain sense works, too. Most fiction is escapism, to take a reader's mind off his and her own troubles for a short time (Have heard it described as competing for Joe's beer money)

Aesthetics seems like something that intersects art, but something different. Once saw a chert hand ax that the maker had flaked off the edges but left a fossilized shell intact in the center. When I saw it, was struck by the sense of aesthetics that traveled the centuries, maybe even millennia, from the craftsman down to the present time. The person who picked up that piece of chert was likely struck by the beauty and unusual aspect of that shell and sought to preserve it while making a tool. Unfortunately, for aesthetics, I know what I like but not much more than that, which is why something like a book cover is hard for me.

Will have to check out Clive Bell's book Art. That said, I may not be able to grasp it.
Right. Clive Bell goes into some detail describing personal tastes, etc. it really is a good book on art. I think it may clarify some things for you. You can probably pick it up at your local library.
 
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Michie

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Tuur

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Thanks. I found a free copy on Amazon (it's now on my Kindle), but since it may lack illustrations (if they are important to the text), I've found a copy on archive.org and attempting to download a PDF.
 
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Tuur

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Um...have just started Bell's Art, and suspected from the introduction that we may be at odds and had the suspicions confirmed in the first pages of the first chapter. Bell doesn't seem to have thought aesthetics could apply to a handsaw, yet this is readily apparent in that thing known as style. From what he wrote about handsaws, I wonder if he would have thought a fossilized shell left on the center of a hand ax displayed aesthetics or if he would have dismissed it out of hand. I suspect Bell wouldn't have thought much of my opinion, just as I suspect he didn't have much experience using handsaws.

Ironically, in Bell's time there was a period of ornate design in the most basic things, from tools to pully wheels. In some cases the ornamentation got in the way of the function. This gets into ergonomics, but be that as it may, it was something that existed during his lifetime.

I'll continue to read the book. It won't be the first time I've read a book I disagreed with, and I'm well aware that Bell was an authority in the field, but his view seems unduly restrictive. And this is from a fellow who knows his artwork is mostly "mechanical," because that's part and parcel of drafting and mapping, and it carried over into a couple of book covers I did. I don't argue in favor of it outside of drafting and mapping; I just know that's a failing of my artwork.
 
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Michie

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Um...have just started Bell's Art, and suspected from the introduction that we may be at odds and had the suspicions confirmed in the first pages of the first chapter. Bell doesn't seem to have thought aesthetics could apply to a handsaw, yet this is readily apparent in that thing known as style. From what he wrote about handsaws, I wonder if he would have thought a fossilized shell left on the center of a hand ax displayed aesthetics or if he would have dismissed it out of hand. I suspect Bell wouldn't have thought much of my opinion, just as I suspect he didn't have much experience using handsaws.

Ironically, in Bell's time there was a period of ornate design in the most basic things, from tools to pully wheels. In some cases the ornamentation got in the way of the function. This gets into ergonomics, but be that as it may, it was something that existed during his lifetime.

I'll continue to read the book. It won't be the first time I've read a book I disagreed with, and I'm well aware that Bell was an authority in the field, but his view seems unduly restrictive. And this is from a fellow who knows his artwork is mostly "mechanical," because that's part and parcel of drafting and mapping, and it carried over into a couple of book covers I did. I don't argue in favor of it outside of drafting and mapping; I just know that's a failing of my artwork.
You have to remember he was a man of the early 20th century and Bell evolved over time. He was a critic but there are a lot of valuable nuggets in that book. As with art, you don’t have to agree with it but there is a lot to be appreciated in it that can set you on your path to finding yourself in the art world. Just give it a chance. This is part of the problem in the art world… we look for answers, definites. That does not happen and if it did, it would not be art. In the art world, disagreements are a given. It’s pretty much its lifeblood. That is why artists that make it big and get such a large following is such a big deal. There are all types and tastes.
 
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Tuur

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The next paragraphs soured me more, but if a few years ago I could read a certain popular book that was a essentially a Norman Vincent Peal retread, I can read this.

When it comes to art, I don't pretend to be even at the neophyte level, much less any sort of expert. I only know what I like, and am open to others liking different art. Sort of like in music in a different scale, but if I dismiss the pentatonic scale, I'll never enjoy Amazing Grace. I guess I have a broad view of art encompassing different things, from architecture to music. If all we did was strictly utilitarian, I'm not sure art would exist, but since humanity choses not to be strictly utilitarian, then even utilitarianism can be a form of art. I don't care for brutalist architecture, but realize that yes, it's a form of architecture, and yes, it appeals to some.

I don't know if there can be a general theory of what makes good art, be it literature or painting or whatever. Note: I'm not 100% sure at this point that this is what Bell is arguing. I do think there can be specialized theories of what makes good art in specific genres, knowing that what applies in one doesn't necessarily apply in the the other. even within the same general type of art.

The only common thread I can make of all this is that art is a form of communication between the artist and the viewer or listener or reader, and maybe even someone appreciating an aroma, or the taste of a meal.
 
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Tuur

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Will hold off of further comments here until I finish the book, with the following exception: Being that art is communication, then all forms of art have their own language and grammar. That didn't hit me until yesterday evening, and felt so stupid because it's so obvious. It's what you deal with in designing book covers: there's a definite visual language going on, and is easy to see if you browse book covers by type. That language is in the image, the style of the image, the type of font, and the placement of images and text.

What this also means is there are likely cultures in art just as in any human society, and the art will build upon and refer to that culture. There will be different "languages" in art. This has me thinking that just as there are Romance languages descended from Latin, there are likely languages in art descended from older languages.

Right or wrong, this makes Bell's Art more palatable in that what Bell is likely describing are the aspects of a particular language.

And, in the words of Forest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that." At least for now.
 
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