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What is the most ethical way to end child sexual abuse?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by TNF_13, Oct 6, 2017.

  1. PsychoSarah

    PsychoSarah Chaotic Neutral

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    Most people are not murders. Most people are not thieves. Most people would hold a door open for an elderly person that's walking in behind them. Yet, most people wouldn't sacrifice their life for a complete stranger. Although I am a pessimist, that doesn't make me blind to the fact that the average person doesn't do much to make waves, good or bad.
     
  2. TNF_13

    TNF_13 Member

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    Please discuss the annihilation of the world in a different thread.
     
  3. PreviouslySeeking...

    PreviouslySeeking... Active Member

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    You misunderstand me. I am not appalled. People hurting each other occurs every second of every day. It is pathetically common.

    10%? My experience says otherwise.
     
  4. TNF_13

    TNF_13 Member

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    If you really want a statistics breakdown (pardon the copy/paste)...

    Studies indicate that the victim-reported abuse on surveys is around 8% for boys, and 19% for girls.

    Let us practically apply that statistic, just to the United States:

    According to this source, there are 73.8 million children in the United States, and the known victim-reported prevalence (8% for boys, 19% for girls) translates to roughly 3,011,040 boys and 6,870,780 girls, or 9,881,820 children. As reported, this means that sexual abuse affects . The estimate that attempts to account for underreporting (38-50% ARE reported, so we will assume for the moment that only 38% are reported) translates to 16,008,548 children.

    In other words, our best data and estimates indicate that 13.39-21.69% of children are sexually abused (which is a big deal).
     
  5. Nicholas Deka

    Nicholas Deka Proud Citizen of Moralton

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    This has got to be the scariest one. Almost all the answers people have, in this thread and elsewhere, are reactionary in nature, but that clearly would have little effect. Or, at best, what we do now already is good enough. Whatever we would try to do has to be preventative which means requiring things of people who haven't done anything wrong. How many people won't see that as trampling all over their rights? And they wouldn't be wrong either.

    I guess it comes down to wanting to live in a society where people want to give up some of their rights for the greater good and convincing them that whatever is done is a good, and more importantly, productive endeavor.

    There may well be a good amount of support to have things added to high school health courses, like directing people to help with the sort of mental health issues that lead to abuse (pedophilia being only one of them). A lot of people think all of psychology is "pseudo science" though. My wife, for example, wouldn't ever speak two words to a psychiatrist.

    That's not to mention funding...
     
  6. TNF_13

    TNF_13 Member

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    It is the scariest one, particularly in the UK and United States where we spend millions and millions of dollars in reactionary policies: Sexual offender registration and notification (because we want to see the nasty stuff our neighbors have been up to), keeping sexual offenders away from parks/schools/daycares, civil commitment... Studies have been done on all these areas, and not only do they find no significant impact on recidivism or crime levels, many researchers have found that some of these policies (like registering juvenile offenders) make societal problems worse.

    Just in the state of Minnesota, we spend over $93 million on these policies, but $300K on prevention. What we have now is not only not good enough, it distracts the public from the reality of who commits sexual crimes. While there is indeed no profile for an abuser, we know certain demographics - like the fact that 35.6% of sexual abusers are children themselves, and the fact you quoted.

    Combined with the fact that 97% of sex offenders have trauma in their childhood, we would not need to require anything of anyone - maybe mandatory mental health screening would be good, but having mentoring programs and getting the right care for those with trauma in childhood, when the trauma happens would be more important than just mental health screening. Sort of like a childhood trauma response protocol of some kind.

    Health support courses for later elementary/junior/senior high would be good- mental health is not taught much in schools these days, to our detriment. You would not even really need formal treatment so much as teaching kids techniques like mindful breathing, and how to get support when they need it.

    A lot of those people have never taken a psychology course, so it is just a confirmation bias on their part (which they would know about if they took a psychology course!). It is hilarious to me that the people who do not believe in psychology are getting duped by it every day. This forum, for example, or Facebook/Twitter being a time suck. Binge-watching television... we are bombarded by psychology-informed messages every day. Even this forum is an exercise in psychology, as any forum is, by giving you statistics (post count, likes, agrees, etc.) that you do not want to lose. Social psychology is in every aspect of modern life.

    I believe if you defunded the reactionary policies aimed at sex offenders that do not appear to have any impact on safety when studied, the funding would take care of itself.
     
  7. CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

    CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN Happy Father's Day.

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    Or They Use something else to sexually abuse their next victim.It's a mind thing. They know it's wrong to sexually abuse someone. But they did it anyways. Because the brain makes them want too. And They Cant Control Their Urges .
     
  8. TNF_13

    TNF_13 Member

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    How much research have you read into the motivations of sexual abuse? In my experience, they vary widely, and many people can learn to control their *behavior* through knowing what they need and how to meet that need in a healthier way. Just over one-third of abuse is perpetrated by children with sexual behavior issues, and 97% of them never hurt anyone else sexually. There is plenty of evidence out there that therapy is quite effective and recidivism is low.
     
  9. CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

    CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN Happy Father's Day.

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    They claim to control their urges. Until they get caught again. Never trust a child molester. They know they shouldn't do it the first time. They cant control their urges. Or they wouldn't have done it the first time. And if someone needs therapy. Then you know they cant help it.
     
  10. Zed Aliz Zed

    Zed Aliz Zed New Member

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    understand what exactly causes the issue. it could be a chemical imbalance.

    learn how to correct it if it is a chemical imbalance.

    simply shooting them ain't going to do [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. or simply locking them up. like any disorder/disease that is not yet curable. you have to experiment. take apart. figure out what causes the issue

    spread more information about research projects and such on it to get more funding. furthermore getting the general public more knowledge on it. and the correct information.

    people misusing the term pedophile/pedophilia sure does not help, pedophilia is the attraction to pre-pubescent children. the term child itself means someone before puberty. and yet statutory rape people are a lot of times rounded up with pedophile's which sure does not help research-wise.

    as statutory rape as far as I see is not an issue this the age of consent varies widely nation to nation and even state to state.

    but as for pedophilia.

    if it's not a chemical imbalance it could be caused by another issue or multiple. if so we are a bit more damned but we could look at each specific issue and try to solve it.

    it could be genetic. we don't know that much about our genetics and genetics are the framework of everything. if it is genetic we can simply correct it at birth. in which case funding projects to end pedophilia and funding projects for designer baby's/genetic editing would be helpful


    if nothing as above works and we are just stuck with them then maybe find an outlet that causes no one harm.
    or maybe send them all to some space colony on an asteroid somewhere and have them work.

    really no matter what you do someone is going to get offended somehow. but it is a tricky topic simply because you have to think of all perspective's
     
  11. TNF_13

    TNF_13 Member

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    The statistics I cited in my OP do not lie, and I have seen many other studies besides the ones I linked. Are you suggesting that the recidivism studies are flawed? Do you think the researchers are part of a conspiracy theory? Even if you inflated some of them to account for underreporting, you still end up with the same reality: Most adjudicated child molesters, particularly the one-third that are children themselves, do not cause further harm to the community, which of itself demonstrates that they can control their *behavior*.

    If someone needs therapy, then you know they are human with a mental illness. I have an autism spectrum disorder, and I see a therapist for that and other things, like being an abuse survivor. Does that mean I cannot help myself somehow?

    I think you need to look into this issue more before you make declarative statements that do not align with the realities found in research. While it is understandable, given the myths the media has spread for the past three decades, there is increasing evidence that sexual offenders do not repeat themselves. You could start by watching a sexual abuse prevention symposium. Here you can find several to choose from. If you do not care to watch videos, I summarized this year's Moore Center for the Prevention of Child Sexual Abuse: 2017 Symposium.

    I agree with much of what you said, particularly the distinction between pedophilia and sexual abuse, except this part. Pedophilia is no doubt at least partly genetic: James Cantor did fMRI research into the brains of pedophiles, and found that pedophilia seems to be in the brain's connections, its wiring, much in the same way that autism and schizophrenia is in the brain's wiring. Some (like Paul Federoff) have suggested that pedophilia can change, however, there are many other researchers who disagree with the methods he used in his study (I wrote an analysis of that here).

    So, thee is no evidence that pedophilia can change, much in the same way there is no evidence that homosexuality can change. Which leads us to your next point...

    There are already outlets that cause no harm. Much like a conservative Christian homosexual can refrain from entering a same-sex romantic relationship, pedophiles can refrain from harming children. There is much evidence to support this, given that only one-third of abusers are pedophilic, and by the estimates we have, most pedophiles do not harm children.

    Pedophiles have sexual fantasy, fictional materials like erotica, and many can explore appropriate adult relationships. The idea that a pedophile will invariably offend is not one supported by research.

    Bingo. To form a comprehensive prevention plan, one must consider what is fair to existing abusers, the research that has been done on adjudicated abusers, the research that has been done in general, the perspective and rights of victims, educating the public, how most people will perceive the plan and how to sell them on the plan, and of course, the perspectives of experts from multiple areas: Helping victims, helping abusers, helping communities, nonprofits, law enforcement, etc.

    Considering multiple angles and how to get them to meet in the middle is certainly a daunting task.
     
  12. Dave-W

    Dave-W Grandparent of six grandchildren, #7 on the way! Supporter

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    Isn't that a bit like the famous question in Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock?

    "How can you get a permit for a [email protected]#$%^ illegal act?"

    The only way to stop it is by definition unethical. Kill the perp.
     
  13. TNF_13

    TNF_13 Member

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    No, it is not like that at all. Your proposed solution does not address the realities of who perpetrates abuse. Even if we did kill abusers when we are made aware of them, we would have an impact of less than 10%, depending on location.

    Please read the statistics in the OP again. If you really need sources, you can run by here, here, and here. Any statistic I cite, I have read the study myself and cite that study in the references. I only include studies that are representative of the bulk of the research done on a particular issue. Number 4 is common knowledge and found on any abuse prevention nonprofit webpage. Number one looks at the known prevalence (8% for boys, 19% for girls) and applies population statistics and underreporting.

    1. Child sexual abuse affects roughly 13-20% of children in the US, and between 10-20% of children worldwide. It is thought that boys are just as much affected by sexual abuse as girls, but more boys do not report abuse.
    2. 92-96% of abuse allegations are true, and those that are false typically originate with adults.
    3. Roughly 38-50% of abuse is reported to the police.
    4. 93% of perpetrators are people known and trusted in the community.
    5. 95% of sex crimes are committed by those with no criminal record.
    6. Sexual recidivism among child sex offenders is lower than that of other sex offenders, on average around 4-8%, in California, as low as .6%. It is more common for sex offenders to recidivate with a non-sexual crime, like a probation/parole violation or failure to register.
    7. 81% of sex abuse happens in a one-on-one situation, and 77% is committed in a residence.
    8. 97% of sex offenders have at least one adverse childhood experience in their background.
    9. One-third of contact child sex offenders have pedophilia, and two-thirds of offenders with sexual abuse material have pedophilia.
     
  14. quatona

    quatona "God"? What do you mean??

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    (I donĀ“t think "epidemic" is the correct word - because it suggest a sudden rise.)

    Imo the only "ethical" way to go is: changing our ways in the upbringing of children. Strengthening their confidence, enabling them to stand their ground and to say "no" without guilt feelings (even though this may come with some inconveniences for us), abstain from conditioning them by using emotional manipulation etc. etc.
     
  15. Dave-W

    Dave-W Grandparent of six grandchildren, #7 on the way! Supporter

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    The numbers I have seen put abuse of girls under age 20 at or over 25%.
     
  16. TNF_13

    TNF_13 Member

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    See post 44.
     
  17. Dave-W

    Dave-W Grandparent of six grandchildren, #7 on the way! Supporter

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    Did. Understated.

    Russell Study:
    This study revealed that up to 38% of women were molested before turning 18 years old. This same study found that up to 16% of boys are molested before they turn 18 years old. Dr. Russell also discovered that only 5% of child sexual abuse had been reported to law enforcement.

    http://religionnews.com/2014/01/09/startling-statistics/
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  18. TNF_13

    TNF_13 Member

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    They also cite the bad information of Gene Abel, who has an entire Wikipedia page dedicated to how much of a scientific fraud he is.

    I read the studies I posted in their entirety, and they were done properly. The prevalence study I cited looked at 217 studies between 1980 and 2008 and included a total of 9.9 million participants. Given that she cites abnormally high numbers compared to what other studies have found, I would be very hesitant to trust the statistics of an unnamed study, particularly when it is sandwiched between bad information like the idea that abusers have "victimized dozens of other children during their lifetime."

    That trope comes from the bad science of Gene Abel and his cohorts, not from reliable studies. While the trope is believable based on the myths we believe about abuse - namely that abuse is perpetrated by middle-aged men with pedophilia wearing trench coats, driving white vans - it does not hold a candle to reality. Close to 40% of sexual crimes against minors are perpetrated by children - juvenile offenders. Most do not have pedophilia.

    I never use statistics from a study unless I have read it myself. A meta-analysis of 217 studies with a sample size of almost 10 million people is nothing to sneeze at.
     
  19. The~Cerberus~Infinite

    The~Cerberus~Infinite Member

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    Get the really guilty ones, and cook them alive. And feed them to the rest of them. Make examples out of them.
     
  20. TNF_13

    TNF_13 Member

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    Doing that would drive abuse further underground when 93% of perpetrators are people we know and trust. No one wants to see the loved father cooked and eaten.
     
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