What is the meaning behind existence, in your view?

[quatona]

How does "3D stuff exist" in a "2D world"?

There are two dimensions they have in common dimensions. The +dimension appears as temporal process in 2D.

Now, would you be willing to clarify if x+1D stuff is/can be meaningful in xD (as you claimed on one occasion) or not (as you claimed on another occasion)?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Wouldn't people jump at the chance to dwell in permanent joy and peace, instead of vacillating between suffering and joy/peace, with all other things considered?

That depends. It sounds like a non-human existence, and I have no desire to be anything other than a human being.

I'm sure that some (many?) people have a kind of self-hatred, and want to be something else. Paul talks about, in Heaven, being given a new body, which is beautiful and doesn't have sin-nature. Such a body would, I suppose, find joy and/or peace in Heaven a completely natural state.

Since I do not share that self-hatred, I would rather vacillate between suffering and joy/peace if that is the inevitable result of the sort of being that I am. Just as I would accept occasional illness interrupting my usual physical health.

Furthermore, let's say that there is some person that I could identify that is clearly happier than I am. And let's say that I was given the opportunity somehow to be that person in every respect, so that I was not myself anymore. Even my memories and personality would disappear and be replaced by my new existence as that other person. As an example, the traitor in the first Matrix movie asks Agent Smith to make him a famous, rich, and happy movie actor, and to completely erase his memories of his miserable life. He thinks that this is a bargain.

If I were given that opportunity, I would refuse.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[GrowingSmaller]

skateboarding. Just ak the Mutt.

 

[paulm50]

Has to be repeated.

 

[paulm50]

A better question is why did religion have to exist for Man to progress and exist?

 

[durangodawood]

Yes, I can, in that if God exists, there must be some truths about God. For instance, he's either a hedonist or he isn't.....

Not necessarily.

How do we know that God must be sensible or definable according to logical standards?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Abetter question is why did religion have to exist for Man to progress and exist?

I think religion even not based in fact is an institution where ethics and cosmology can be, or have been developed over the millenia. The very idea that philosophy (ethics) and science (what exists) replace religion, well theres a hidden message there. Its not like were saying "microwave ovens replace religion" or "cars replace religion" is it?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Not necessarily.

How do we know that God must be sensible or definable according to logical standards?

How can anything not be sensible or definable according to logical standards?

And if God is not, then nothing can be said about him except twas bryllyg, and ye slythy toves did gyre and gymble in ye wabe: all mimsy were ye borogoves;
and ye mome raths outgrabe.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[paulm50]

I think religion even not based in fact is an institution where ethics and cosmology can be, or have been developed over the millenia. The very idea that philosophy (ethics) and science (what exists) replace religion, well theres a hidden message there. Its not like were saying "microwave ovens replace religion" or "cars replace religion" is it?

Without religion, we could not of built communities larger than family.

Gobeklitepe built around 9,000 BC. At a time we were Hunter Gatherers. They already had religion, the Temple wasn't the start of the religion. They are starting to discover earlier remains on the site. Building this with Stone Age tools was a monumental task. Organisation, dedication and it had to have a deep purpose to take time out from feeding the tribe.

Imagine people living together in a community. They need a leader who knows when to hunt, why it rains, or doesn't, why the Earth shook. etc. He doesn't know, so why should they follow him other than brute strength? There's n technology, no police force, nothing but the leader and a few close to him.

A god who knows these things and he knows god and why the good and bad things happen. clears all that up. Add the bonus of that god watching the tribe to see if they are being good or bad, and you have more control.

Oldest Temple in the World. And it puts the Jewish religion in more perspective. Exodus was after many of these were built. Pre Exodus, what were Hebrews doing in those times?

Now we have the law, a strong sense of community and few will question it. We have the police these days. would be better if everyone thought someone was watching them.

 

[ananda]

Here's the meaning of life:
When 1/3 of the angels leaved, following Lucifer, YWHW realized that their mistake was due to a lack of experience too. No angel had a clue about living far from God's light.
So YWHW had an idea. To create a new living specie that would pass trough a "vaccine", in order to make them aware of the dangers of living far from God.
So YWHW put Adam and Eve in the principate of the Evil. He put the fruit in the middle of the Eden because Adam and Eve would have eaten it and entered the program of God: knowing the difference between living in the light, and living in the darkness, but without having to live in the Hell. That's why our life is a vaccine. We can taste the hell, but still be in God's kingdom.
When we will die and go to Heaven, we will remember what does it mean to be far from God, and we will appreciate his kingdom more. Nobody will ever want to leave the light, because we will know that without His light we would die.

A vaccine?

 

[ananda]

For those who think we are here by accident, fortuitous or otherwise, there is no pre-planned reason for our existence. Now that we are here, though, we may, if we so choose, design or divine or otherwise define a purpose for our lives. Some may make worship of their God their purpose, some may make service to their fellow men or animals their purpose, some may choose a self-serving path, some may find other goals for themselves.

Some dyed in the wool Darwinists may say that their purpose is to ensure the survival of their genes for the survival of their species.

Any purpose that each life has is a purpose that comes after that life starts except, arguably, for the evolutionary purpose.

Where did the evolutionary purpose come from then?

 

[ananda]

... Now we have the law, a strong sense of community and few will question it. We have the police these days. would be better if everyone thought someone was watching them.

Subjugation through fear ... is that necessarily a good thing? Would we bring up our children in this manner, and would they grow up to be responsible adults? I doubt it.

 

[bhsmte]

Where did the evolutionary purpose come from then?

Probably the same place that germ theory purpose and gravitational theory came from.

 

[ananda]

There are two dimensions they have in common dimensions. The +dimension appears as temporal process in 2D.

Perhaps, but it no longer exists as a completely 3D object in the 2D world.

Now, would you be willing to clarify if x+1D stuff is/can be meaningful in xD (as you claimed on one occasion) or not (as you claimed on another occasion)?

I believe that abandonment of xD to achieve x+1D (as you described it) does possess a greater meaning, yes.

 

[ananda]

That depends. It sounds like a non-human existence, and I have no desire to be anything other than a human being.

I'm sure that some (many?) people have a kind of self-hatred, and want to be something else. Paul talks about, in Heaven, being given a new body, which is beautiful and doesn't have sin-nature. Such a body would, I suppose, find joy and/or peace in Heaven a completely natural state.

Since I do not share that self-hatred, I would rather vacillate between suffering and joy/peace if that is the inevitable result of the sort of being that I am. Just as I would accept occasional illness interrupting my usual physical health.

Furthermore, let's say that there is some person that I could identify that is clearly happier than I am. And let's say that I was given the opportunity somehow to be that person in every respect, so that I was not myself anymore. Even my memories and personality would disappear and be replaced by my new existence as that other person. As an example, the traitor in the first Matrix movie asks Agent Smith to make him a famous, rich, and happy movie actor, and to completely erase his memories of his miserable life. He thinks that this is a bargain.

If I were given that opportunity, I would refuse.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

I think that people with "self-hatred" do actually desire joy and peace, but merely dwell in a place where they feel that they can't get away from a quality associated with their selves which they cannot escape from.

 

[cineplus]

A vaccine?

Exactly! To understand the meaning of our life, you have to know what happened before

 

[ananda]

Exactly! To understand the meaning of our life, you have to know what happened before

So Lucifer and the 1/3 of angels were imperfectly created?

 

[cineplus]

So Lucifer and the 1/3 of angels were imperfectly created?

No they were free. but they didn't know that going away from God would have disconnected them from the life.

 

[quatona]

Perhaps, but it no longer exists as a completely 3D object in the 2D world.

So?

I believe that abandonment of xD to achieve x+1D (as you described it) does possess a greater meaning, yes.

So?

 

[ananda]

So? So?

All of the qualities of the 3D object cannot exist in a 2D world.

I think what I'm trying to say is, at least from my early Buddhist viewpoint, is that the everyday occupants of this reality do not value or can give meaning to existence beyond this reality (the natural world, everything we as regular men and women understand as "reality"). Things outside of the five natural senses are not deemed to have value or any meaningful existence.

That's why in various religious scriptures - like the Bible - the return of Christ and his kingdom is described in terms of the five natural senses, since these are the things valued by everyday people. They seek after a 3D/4D existence, since meaning (to them) is only found in a 3D/4D existence.

On the other hand, Buddha described nibbana (nirvana) as neither existence nor non-existence. I believe he deferred from going into greater detail than that because it was ultimately unimportant in the training of his disciples, but as I reflect on his claim, it seems to fit well with my understanding, comparably to how I described the 2D vs 3D worlds.