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What is the Mark of the Beast ?

David Lamb

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No he's not too old & he is a Jew by proxy, he's the only member of the royal family to be circumcised & plus him and his sons have been chipped.
King Charles has certainly said many things which are contrary to the gospel of Christ, but I have never heard anyone suggest that he is the Antichrist. I wonder how you know which members of the royal family have been circumcised. Also, in what sense is he a Jew by proxy? And besides, none of the four mentions of Antichrist in the New Testament mention the antichrist's nationality.
 
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Douggg

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King Charles has certainly said many things which are contrary to the gospel of Christ, but I have never heard anyone suggest that he is the Antichrist. I wonder how you know which members of the royal family have been circumcised. Also, in what sense is he a Jew by proxy? And besides, none of the four mentions of Antichrist in the New Testament mention the antichrist's nationality.
Welcome to the forum, David. We are the same age, btw.
 
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Apple Sky

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And besides, none of the four mentions of Antichrist in the New Testament mention the antichrist's nationality.

It's not by nationality but by their blood line.

To know more you will have to read the book by Tim Cohen 'The Antichrist & a cup of tea'.

Apparently in his second book he proves Charles to be the Antichrist which I've yet to purchase.

a antichrist.jpg
 
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The 42 months is Revelation 13 is end times.
One of those ten horns on the Sea Beast (in its last, ancient Roman empire phase) made war against the saints for 42 months. Nero, one of these crowned horns on the Sea Beast, waged a fierce war of persecution against the Christian saints for those 42 months from late AD 64 until just before Nero's suicide death in June AD 68. Those "end times" were part of 1 Peter 4:7's statement that "the END OF ALL THINGS IS AT HAND" in his own first-century generation.

All of Revelation 13 is loooong past in its fulfillment. Your time chart of the end times is completely twisted in all directions.
 
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Douggg

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One of those ten horns on the Sea Beast (in its last, ancient Roman empire phase) made war against the saints for 42 months. Nero, one of these crowned horns on the Sea Beast, waged a fierce war of persecution against the Christian saints for those 42 months from late AD 64 until just before Nero's suicide death in June AD 68. Those "end times" were part of 1 Peter 4:7's statement that "the END OF ALL THINGS IS AT HAND" in his own first-century generation.

All of Revelation 13 is loooong past in its fulfillment. Your time chart of the end times is completely twisted in all directions.
The 7 hears and 10 horns do not have crowns in Revelation 17, because those are all future of John's time, first century. Nero was the sixth head king ruling at the time of John. The 10 horns are all end time kings, who will rule with the beast-king for 42 months.

The beast-king and false prophet of Revelation 13 will be cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus's Second Coming in Revelation 19:20.

None of Revelation 13 has taken place yet.

None of the 15 time frames of the end time events given in the bible have begun yet.


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Douggg

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It's not by nationality but by their blood line.
The Jews (Judaism) maintain that a person is a Jew if their mother is a Jew. The father does not have to be a Jew.
 
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Apple Sky

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The Jews (Judaism) maintain that a person is a Jew if their mother is a Jew. The father does not have to be a Jew.

King James Bible
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
 
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Apple Sky

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One of those ten horns on the Sea Beast (in its last, ancient Roman empire phase) made war against the saints for 42 months. Nero, one of these crowned horns on the Sea Beast, waged a fierce war of persecution against the Christian saints for those 42 months from late AD 64 until just before Nero's suicide death in June AD 68. Those "end times" were part of 1 Peter 4:7's statement that "the END OF ALL THINGS IS AT HAND" in his own first-century generation.

All of Revelation 13 is loooong past in its fulfillment. Your time chart of the end times is completely twisted in all directions.

What does it say in Daniel 12:4 ?

King James Bible
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
 
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The 7 hears and 10 horns do not have crowns in Revelation 17, because those are all future of John's time, first century.
Sure, but they were in John's IMMEDIATE future - not in our future. The Scarlet Beast once "WAS" in existence before John's time, but currently as John was writing Revelation, he said that this Scarlet Beast "IS NOT" in existence at the time. But it was soon "ABOUT TO ARISE from the abyss AND GO INTO DESTRUCTION" in John near future (Rev. 17:8). That means the Scarlet Beast and everything connected with it was soon "ABOUT TO" be destroyed utterly in John's days.

That means those ten uncrowned horns on the Rev. 17 Scarlet Beast were about to give their power for "ONE HOUR" to the Scarlet Beast in John's days, and would destroy the harlot called Mystery Babylon before the Scarlet Beast itself was "ABOUT TO go into destruction" - in John' days - not ours.

The Rev. 17 Scarlet Beast found in the wilderness is a totally different Beast from the Rev. 13 Sea Beast. Different histories, different activities, different fates. When you combine these two into one, you confuse the prophecies given regarding each of them.

What does it say in Daniel 12:4 ?

King James Bible
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Sure, but "the time of the END" of WHAT in particular? 1 Peter 4:7 says that "the END of ALL things is AT HAND" in his own days when that verse was being written around AD 65 before Peter's martyrdom. This cannot be the end of all human history on this planet, since history has continued since Peter's death. But there WAS an "END of all things" related to something that then existed in Peter's days. Daniel's formerly "sealed" prophecies were being unsealed and fulfilled in John's days. Daniel's prophecies related to the end of Daniel's people as the "holy people" whose power would be shattered (Dan. 12:7) was coming to an end in those first-century days. They culminated in the AD 70 destruction of the nation, the city of Jerusalem, and its temple system being obliterated.

What does apply to us and our future is the "sealed up" prophecies which the 7 thunders uttered in Revelation 10:4. John was forbidden to write these down, since they did not apply to the times that were then "at hand" in John's own days.
 
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Josheb

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What is it about then ?
I believe I have already answered that question.

If we abide by the most basic of well-established and long-held principles of sound exegesis then we know we have to start with how the original author and his original readers would have understood what was written. We know we can't impose 17th, 21st, or 49th century conditions on the text because the original audience knew nothing of those things. God is omniscient so He knows everything, but the book was written to first century Christians and it was written expressly as a revelation revealing to them things that had happened, things that were happening, and things that would come afterwards..... in a way they would understand. In order for chips, cell numbers, and DNA to be true we'd all have to ignore the audience affiliations of the text AND the temporal qualifiers. If we continue to abide by basic exegesis principles then the first place to look to understand the meaning of anything not made clear is first and foremost scripture itself, not 15th, 20th, or 33rd century technology. That is why I suggested starting with Deuteronomy 6 where we read an early mention of hand and forehead. That is something the first century reader would have understood (especially since John is the most Jewish of the NT authors). The content of the Dt. 6 text becomes a theme that runs through the entirety of scripture so I question why it would be ignored by anyone.

Even if we were to put aside the concept of scripture rendering scripture, of scripture being its own best source for understanding itself, we'd still have the concept or original meaning and original understand with which to understand Rev. 13's "mark." That means if the "mark" is not something place on hand or head, then the mark might be a scar, or a tattoo, or burn or something known to exist in the first century. For example, in most of the surrounding cultures the punishment for certain crimes was a scar. Adulterers, for example would have their face lacerated so the resulting scar would tell everyone the person was an adulterer. Thieves would have a hand removed. If any of these are the "mark" then there is, again, important scriptural significance to this because Tanakh prohibited maiming, scarification, and tattooing. If the mark is not a reference to something in the Christian scriptures already known to the original audience, then it is a pagan practice already known to exist by the original readers.


A lot of people believe Revelation (and some of the other apocalyptic content in other books) refers to Rome but without digressing far afield of this op, I'd like to suggest Jerusalem is the more likely city in question, not Rome. I do not mean to necessarily exclude Rome because both cities can be spoken of, not just one or the other. Jerusalem, like Rome was a city built on seven hills. Jerusalem is where the Law with which Christians concerned themselves was practiced, not Rome (so the reference to the "lawless man" begs the question, "Which law? The Law of God or the law of Caesar?" and "Why would Paul be telling Christian readers to watch for someone who disobeyed Roman law?" Every Christian living in the NT era disobeyed Caesar by believing Jesus, not Caesar, was King of all Kings and God incarnate! So..... look first to scripture to answer the question, "What is the 'mark'?"

Whether in the past or in the future, the mark must be something that would have been understood by the original audience.

So don't believe Christian teachers who speculate using modern conditions unknown to the original readers because they've left scripture and are imposing on the text things unknown to the original readers.
 
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Jerusalem, like Rome was a city built on seven hills.
EXACTLY. That is why the Rev. 13 Sea Beast had seven heads and the Rev. 17 Scarlet Beast ALSO had seven heads, which were mountains.

These were two different Beasts. The Sea Beast was in its Roman phase, with those seven heads representing the seven hills upon which Rome was built.

The Scarlet Beast found in the wilderness also had seven heads, but these were the seven hills upon which Jerusalem was built.
 
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Douggg

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Sure, but they were in John's IMMEDIATE future - not in our future. The Scarlet Beast once "WAS" in existence before John's time, but currently as John was writing Revelation, he said that this Scarlet Beast "IS NOT" in existence at the time. But it was soon "ABOUT TO ARISE from the abyss AND GO INTO DESTRUCTION" in John near future (Rev. 17:8). That means the Scarlet Beast and everything connected with it was soon "ABOUT TO" be destroyed utterly in John's days.

That means those ten uncrowned horns on the Rev. 17 Scarlet Beast were about to give their power for "ONE HOUR" to the Scarlet Beast in John's days, and would destroy the harlot called Mystery Babylon before the Scarlet Beast itself was "ABOUT TO go into destruction" - in John' days - not ours.

The Rev. 17 Scarlet Beast found in the wilderness is a totally different Beast from the Rev. 13 Sea Beast. Different histories, different activities, different fates. When you combine these two into one, you confuse the prophecies given regarding each of them.
If you review the plagues that will take place during the time of the beast and the ten kings, you will see merely by the severity of their nature that none of those have taken place yet.




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If you review the plagues that will take place during the time of the beast and the ten kings, you will see merely by the severity of their nature that none of those have taken place yet.
You are overestimating the target of those plagues. Just because these plagues were poured out on the "earth" doesn't mean that was necessarily referring to the entire globe. "The Earth" (tes ges) more often than not refers specifically to the LAND of Israel in scripture. And just because a plague was to be poured out on the "sea" doesn't mean every bit of the oceans in the entire planet were going to be affected by that plague. These would apply to a sea which the Israelites were connected with - i.e., the Dead Sea, the Sea of Galilee, or the Mediterranean Sea.

The "days of vengeance" which were called the "Great Tribulation" were going to be poured out on Christ's ethnic people in judgment for slaying the prophets sent to them over the centuries, and for finally becoming the "betrayers and murderers" of Christ their Messiah who had ministered among them. Their nation of Judea would receive the greatest share of those plagues in fulfillment of the blood curse their leadership had called down upon themselves and their own children of that first century generation at Christ's trial before Pilate.
 
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Douggg

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You are overestimating the target of those plagues. Just because these plagues were poured out on the "earth" doesn't mean that was necessarily referring to the entire globe. "The Earth" (tes ges) more often than not refers specifically to the LAND of Israel in scripture. And just because a plague was to be poured out on the "sea" doesn't mean every bit of the oceans in the entire planet were going to be affected by that plague. These would apply to a sea which the Israelites were connected with - i.e., the Dead Sea, the Sea of Galilee, or the Mediterranean Sea.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Also, Satan will be cast down to earth having great wrath knowing that his time is short. A time, times, half time before being cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

Also, during the third woe trumpet sounding, a third of mankind will be killed.
 
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Bob Crowley

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As i have stated before, the mark of the beast is what Johnny the rottweiler leaves in his back yard every morning!!!!
You leave the mark of the little beast in your own backyard?
 
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Bob Crowley

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As far as I'm concerned the "mark of the beast" will be some sort of chip, possilby with a toxic capsule attached (if I really want to be morbid).

The one and only SPECIFIC condition tied to it is that nobody can buy or sell without it. Some people have apple watches and there are bands now issued by some banks which have the same function as a credit or debit card. Just wave it over a reader and you're in business.

It wouldn't be a big step to inserting such a chip into the back of your hand / wrist or your forehead. Some people don't have hands, but most of us seem to need a head to get around.

The technology is most likely here. Add the internet, satellite surveillance and a world under theat by nuclear terrorism for example and a lot of people would accept it for security reasons.

There are probably some isolated tribles living a subsistence lifestyle who could get along without it but for the billions in large cities all around the world how would they live if their bank accounts were suddenly closed?
 
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Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Also, Satan will be cast down to earth having great wrath knowing that his time is short. A time, times, half time before being cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

Also, during the third woe trumpet sounding, a third of mankind will be killed.
Douggg, you are yanking these texts out of the context in which they are sitting. It is messing up your interpretations.

The context of Matthew 24 is those in Judea and in Jerusalem who were to flee those areas when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. By fleeing these areas of Judea and Jerusalem, they would be able to avoid the "Great Tribulation" and the "days of vengeance" that were coming upon those areas, in which God shortened the days so that there would be at least some survivors in Judea and Jerusalem at the end of that Great Tribulation period.

As for Satan being cast down to earth for a "short time", this was a then-current warning that John was giving to his readers for their own days. Satan was then at that time in the first century presently cast down to the earth and sea to afflict the inhabitants of both Israel and Gentile lands (the symbolism of "earth" and "sea"). Satan had just been released from his millennial chain back in AD 33 so that he could deceive the nations again for that "little season" back in the first century before he was destroyed.

As for "the third of men" being killed in Rev. 9:15, you have the wrong trumpet judgment. It wasn't the third woe trumpet: it was the sixth trumpet judgment (the second woe) which was described in Rev. 9:13-9:21, and which finishes up with Revelation 11:14. The particular setting of this sixth trumpet judgment was the city of Jerusalem where that sixth trumpet judgment would take place, in which there would be 7,000 slain along with the two witnesses. The "THIRD OF MEN" that were slain in this sixth trumpet judgment were not a third of ALL mankind in the entire world. It was a third of men in Jerusalem at the time who were slain, at the same time as the murder of the two witnesses. The "third of men" amounted to a total of 7,002, not billions as you are supposing.
 
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Douggg

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The context of Matthew 24 is those in Judea and in Jerusalem who were to flee those areas when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. By fleeing these areas of Judea and Jerusalem, they would be able to avoid the "Great Tribulation" and the "days of vengeance" that were coming upon those areas, in which God shortened the days so that there would be at least some survivors in Judea and Jerusalem at the end of that Great Tribulation period.
Matthew 24:15 does not say surrounded by armies, but when the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )

The abomination of desolation is in Daniel 12:11-12. Daniel 12 is time of the end.

As for Satan being cast down to earth for a "short time", this was a then-current warning that John was giving to his readers for their own days. Satan was then at that time in the first century presently cast down to the earth and sea to afflict the inhabitants of both Israel and Gentile lands (the symbolism of "earth" and "sea"). Satan had just been released from his millennial chain back in AD 33 so that he could deceive the nations again for that "little season" back in the first century before he was destroyed.
No, Satan's release from the bottomless pit prison in Revelation 20 is over a thousand years from now.


As for "the third of men" being killed in Rev. 9:15, you have the wrong trumpet judgment. It wasn't the third woe trumpet: it was the sixth trumpet judgment (the second woe) which was described in Rev. 9:13-9:21, and which finishes up with Revelation 11:14. The particular setting of this sixth trumpet judgment was the city of Jerusalem where that sixth trumpet judgment would take place, in which there would be 7,000 slain along with the two witnesses. The "THIRD OF MEN" that were slain in this sixth trumpet judgment were not a third of ALL mankind in the entire world. It was a third of men in Jerusalem at the time who were slain, at the same time as the murder of the two witnesses. The "third of men" amounted to a total of 7,002, not billions as you are supposing.
You are misunderstanding Revelation 11:14. Revelation 11:13, and the 7000 who die in the earthquake finished up the episode regarding the two witnesses. Revelation 11:14 begins the next experience John has in heaven.

The angel says to John...

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. And in verse 15, the seventh angel sounds his trumpet.

John had been shown already what the second trumpet judgment woe to the inhabiters of the earth would be (a third of mankind killed) in Revelation 9. And is about to be shown shortly what the third trumpet woe to the inhabiters of the earth would be (Satan cast down to earth having great wrath) in Revelation 12.
 
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