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Getting more interesting,- The day of the Lord is the day of His coming judgment.
So combine them into one or keep them separate. I talked with somebody else who brought this up yesterday and I thought oh man I forgot that one.I think the two options that Myst33 laid out should be included:
- The day of the Lord is Sunday, the day of the Lord's victory.
- The day of the Lord is the day of His coming judgment.
Those are documented views people hold on the subject. So they should be options in the poll regarding people's views on the subjec
They are separate.So combine them into one or keep them separate. I talked with somebody else who brought this up yesterday and I thought oh man I forgot that one.
They look like the same thingThey are separate.
Maybe we are talking about two different things. Are you saying these two look the same? Or something else looks the same?They look like the same thing
There are many people who have varying views on the Lord's Day. This poll is designed to clarify the varying views on the
When I was a teenager many many years ago I was taught that the Sabbath was the Lord's Day. Matthew 12:8 and Luke 6:5 both indicate that the Son of Man was Lord of the Sabbath. In Revelation 1:10 John indicated he was in Spirit on the Lord's day. The issue is, of course, was the Lord's Day originally the weekly Sabbath before it was hijacked by those who associated the Lord's Day as Sunday, the day of Jesus's resurrection.There are many people who have varying views on the Lord's Day. This poll is designed to clarify the varying views on the issue.
My thinking is yes, if you trace it backward, there is a clear line back to the Apostles and John the Revelator. The question becomes where did it first originate and why? the first mention of it in the bible is Revelation, but I think it was first called the "Lord's Day" when it went public in Ephesus. Ephesus is the first place Christians had a public meeting hall, the school of Tryannus, before that, it was "The Celebration of the Lord's Life" a private in-home meeting. The name change reflected the need to make a distinction between Jew and Christian, keep the peace, and teach Christ. Something they could not due in the synagogue. This was not only prompted by separation from the synagogue but religious conflict in Rome between Jews and Christians which led to the Jews, among them Priscilla & Aquilla, being kicked out of Rome. In order to solve this problem they separated and when they went to a public service used the term "The Lord's day".When I was a teenager many many years ago I was taught that the Sabbath was the Lord's Day. Matthew 12:8 and Luke 6:5 both indicate that the Son of Man was Lord of the Sabbath. In Revelation 1:10 John indicated he was in Spirit on the Lord's day. The issue is, of course, was the Lord's Day originally the weekly Sabbath before it was hijacked by those who associated the Lord's Day as Sunday, the day of Jesus's resurrection.
My question is, is it really the case that when we read of the Lord's Day written by Christians in the second or third centuries CE that it always referred to Sunday? If yes, when is the first mention of the Lord's Day when it clearly refers to Sunday?
victory over sin and death, then how is it different from what we say about the Lord's day when we are commemorating the resurrection" Isn't that just saying the same thing, except in more detail?Maybe we are talking about two different things. Are you saying these two look the same? Or something else looks the same?
- The day of the Lord is Sunday, the day of the Lord's victory.
- The day of the Lord is the day of His coming judgment.
for those who accept Christ, the law is written in the Heart. that includes the Sabbath, since he is the Lord of the Sabbath it will remain forever and is a sign of his rulership during the 1000 years. For those not under the New Covenant they are still under one or more of the Prior covenants, that is why it still remains.But the Bible very clearly states that the things of the Covenant made through Moses pointed toward Jesus, and that the Old is rendered obsolete by the New (those aren't my words, those are the words Scripture uses).
-CryptoLutheran
My question is, is it really the case that when we read of the Lord's Day written by Christians in the second or third centuries CE that it always referred to Sunday? If yes, when is the first mention of the Lord's Day when it clearly refers to Sunday?
for those who accept Christ, the law is written in the Heart. that includes the Sabbath, since he is the Lord of the Sabbath it will remain forever and is a sign of his rulership during the 1000 years. For those not under the New Covenant they are still under one or more of the Prior covenants, that is why it still remains.
The purpose of the poll is twofold. 1. To list the various views on the Lord's Day. 2. To see all people on this form of view the Lord's Day.
victory over sin and death, then how is it different from what we say about the Lord's day when we are commemorating the resurrection" Isn't that just saying the same thing, except in more detail?
for those who accept Christ, the law is written in the Heart. that includes the Sabbath,
since he is the Lord of the Sabbath it will remain forever and is a sign of his rulership during the 1000 years.
For those not under the New Covenant they are still under one or more of the Prior covenants, that is why it still remains.
When I was a teenager many many years ago I was taught that the Sabbath was the Lord's Day. Matthew 12:8 and Luke 6:5 both indicate that the Son of Man was Lord of the Sabbath. In Revelation 1:10 John indicated he was in Spirit on the Lord's day. The issue is, of course, was the Lord's Day originally the weekly Sabbath before it was hijacked by those who associated the Lord's Day as Sunday, the day of Jesus's resurrection.
My question is, is it really the case that when we read of the Lord's Day written by Christians in the second or third centuries CE that it always referred to Sunday? If yes, when is the first mention of the Lord's Day when it clearly refers to Sunday?
I am just dumbfounded you difficult people want to make this process. The complaining must stop, no one is being hurt, and nothing is at stake here. many of these long-winded rants are just too much given what we are doing here. The action does not merit the response, so get a helmet life is hard. It is a poll. please press or don't press the button, but no one wants to hear a lecture. if you think it is something different then say "The Lord's Day is.....__________ those are the instructions. I will not listen to a lecture. It is not necessary.If you want your poll to accomplish that you need to listen to the majority of the members replying to this thread, when we tell you that none of the options you provided adequately represent our views. I suspect that your insistence on retaining the word “Usurped” in option IV is causing the most consternation, but also there are several theologies on the Lord’s Day, such as the widely held Eastern Orthodox view that it is not the first but the mystical eighth day of Creation and a second Sabbath is not provided for.
The problem from my perspective is that every option you provided is in some respect derogatory towards non-Sabbatarian perspectives. This bias is something you may not be aware of, as we very commonly are unable to discern our own biases.
Rather than complaining about it, I am going to offer to help you. Should you agree, I propose to form an ecumenical committee of members including representatives of Sabbatarianism, along with representatives of Anglicanism, Lutheranism, Reformed Protestantism, Evangelical Protestantism, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox and Roman Catholicism, and other Restorationist churches if we have any members of the Stone/Campbell Movement, the Plymouth Brethren or the Quakers, to work together to provide a comprehensive and inclusive list of perspectives on the Sabbath
Never said the Sabbath was the Lord's or the Lord's Day was the Sabbath. Try reading the OP. looks like there are some deeper issues at play here.St. Ignatius of Antioch, in his letters, makes a clear distinction between the Lord's Day and the Sabbath--they are entirely different things. He wrote his letters after he was arrested and being escorted by a group of Roman soldiers to face his trial in Rome. His letters and martyrdom are generally dated to sometime between 105 and 110 AD, with a 107 AD date usually given.
Some important details about St. Ignatius of Antioch:
He was an old man when he was arrested, and he was bishop of Antioch. He became bishop after his predecessor, Evodius was martyred (69 AD). Ignatius, therefore, had personally listened to and studied under the teaching of both the Apostles Paul and Peter when they ran their ministry from Antioch. Ignatius would have, therefore, been one of the presbyters of the Antiochene church, possibly ordained directly by either Paul or Peter to serve in the ministry as a pastor for the Christians in Antioch.
When Ignatius, therefore, says that the Lord's Day and the Sabbath are different, he's worth listening to. He literally knew the Apostles.
So either Ignatius is siimply saying what everyone already knew (the most likely option) or else Ignatius became really senile in his old age or decided to just throw away what he learned from the Apostles. One has to wonder, however, why--if Ignatius became so callous to the teachings of his predecessors and teachers, he'd be so willing to offer His life as a sacrifice to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And He certainly doesn't come across as senile, he comes across as quick, astute, and passionate in his eagerness to serve Jesus Christ and the whole Church of God by imploring the Faithful to abide in Christ in everything.
The short version of all this:
No Christian in antiqutiy taught the Lord's Day was the Sabbath. The first definition of the Lord's Day we get is from someone who personally knew and was ordained by the Apostles as a pastor. A pastor in the church where "the disciples were first called Christians". Who was discipled directly under the pastoral care of both the Apostles Peter and Paul.
There simply isn't any counter-evidence that "the Lord's Day" ever meant anything else in the Christian community.
-CryptoLutheran
Never said the Sabbath was the Lord's or the Lord's Day was the Sabbath. Try reading the OP. looks like there are some deeper issues at play here.
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