What is the IJ?

[listed]

I'm told that I don't understand this doctrine. It is a FB of the SDA church. I've read about the subject in their section. So I''m look for discussion and debate on the subject not allowed in the fellowship section. I've seen a few complaints about non SDA even posting there. Thanks in advance for any assistance given in and on this issue.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What is the IJ?

I'm told that I don't understand this doctrine. It is a FB of the SDA church. I've read about the subject in their section. So I''m look for discussion and debate on the subject not allowed in the fellowship section. I've seen a few complaints about non SDA even posting there. Thanks in advance for any assistance given in and on this issue.

What does IJ stand for?

 

[listed]

What is the IJ?
What does IJ stand for?

Investigative Judgement an SDA fundamental belief. I'm hoping that they will explain it for us and bring us out of the dark on the subject.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Investigative Judgement an SDA fundamental belief. I'm hoping that they will explain it for us and bring us out of the dark on the subject.

Ahhhh thanks
One could go to these discussions on the SDA boards, copy paste a post and bring over to the GT thread to discuss. Not sure about the rules on that tho

http://www.christianforums.com/f569/
Progressive/Moderate Adventists


http://www.christianforums.com/t7507622/
Investigative Judgement


http://www.christianforums.com/f541/
Traditional Adventists


http://www.christianforums.com/t7629034/
The importance of the Investigative Judgment

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I'm told that I don't understand this doctrine. It is a FB of the SDA church. I've read about the subject in their section. So I''m look for discussion and debate on the subject not allowed in the fellowship section. I've seen a few complaints about non SDA even posting there. Thanks in advance for any assistance given in and on this issue.

The Investigative Judgement is the belief that there will be a Judgement which takes place in heaven before Jesus comes the second time. When Jesus comes he is going to execute judgement, i.e give reward.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

This means that before Jesus comes, everyone's fate would have already been determined and that is what the IJ is. The belief that everyone is going to be lined up and asked what they did with their life is totally unbiblical.

Our earthly court system, which is largely patterned after elements from the bible, has an investigation where it is decided where the defendant is guilty or not. After this is determined, then the judgement is handed down. Its the same principle.

If you look at the parable of the wedding, in Matthew 22 you would see three groups of people represented.

1. People who rejected the invitation to the feast.
2. People who accepted the invitation but had the incorrect garment.
3. People who accepted the invitation but had the right garment.

So the king (God) sends his servants (his followers, witnesses) to invite (prepare) all people to the wedding (second coming) of his son (Jesus Christ). In Revelation the symbolism of the second coming as a wedding feast is used many times and also used by Paul in his letters as well. The garment that one should have is the righteousness of Christ. There are some that would accept the invitation (professed Christians), yet they do not have the proper garment. Now before the bridegroom comes, the King does an inspection (investigation) to see if everyone present (Christians) actually have the proper garment. The is the same principle of the Investigative Judgement. The investigative judgement are only for professed Christians, because the others do not need to be investigated since they do not claim to be followers of Jesus and thus cannot be saved.

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The first judgement which is investigative is for professed christians or the house of God. When Jesus comes, there shall be no investigation but simply giving of rewards.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

the IJ is a judgement of professed believers. to determine who are true and false believers. it began in 1844 at the end of the 2300day/year prophecy, according to sda interpretation of Daniel 8:14. when christ is done with the IJ, he will come and give his reward. the big problem with it is that, they say when Christ is done with his investigation we will have to stand in the presecne of God without and intercessor. we have to stand before God with no help from Christ. this is an impossible task for one thing and destorys the need for God grace.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

the IJ is a judgement of professed believers. to determine who are true and false believers. it began in 1844 at the end of the 2300day/year prophecy, according to sda interpretation of Daniel 8:14. when christ is done with the IJ, he will come and give his reward. the big problem with it is that, they say when Christ is done with his investigation we will have to stand in the presecne of God without and intercessor. we have to stand before God with no help from Christ. this is an impossible task for one thing and destorys the need for God grace.

Nobody has to stand before God literally to answer any questions. If you heard that, it has to be just an expression. When Jesus comes back, it is either you are saved or lost so those who are lost cant get no help from Christ of course. When Jesus bursts the clouds that's it. At that point there is no more grace being extended because it is time for the harvest.

 

[listed]

Ahhhh thanks
One could go to these discussions on the SDA boards, copy paste a post and bring over to the GT thread to discuss. Not sure about the rules on that tho

http://www.christianforums.com/f569/
Progressive/Moderate Adventists


http://www.christianforums.com/t7507622/
Investigative Judgement


http://www.christianforums.com/f541/
Traditional Adventists


http://www.christianforums.com/t7629034/
The importance of the Investigative Judgment

I've read some of those threads. I'm not the lightest bit interested in debating those threads. It is said one can't understand the subject by reading them anyway. Kinda wierd if you ask me. Evidently they don't understand it either.

I'm asking for the topic to be explained in GT because an SDA (in a ministerial position) said I don't understand the IJ. So where is he since I've provided this fine opportunity. Evidently he doesn't understand it and can't or won't explain the doctrine.

 

[listed]

The Investigative Judgement is the belief that there will be a Judgement which takes place in heaven before Jesus comes the second time. When Jesus comes he is going to execute judgement, i.e give reward.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

This means that before Jesus comes, everyone's fate would have already been determined and that is what the IJ is. The belief that everyone is going to be lined up and asked what they did with their life is totally unbiblical.

Our earthly court system, which is largely patterned after elements from the bible, has an investigation where it is decided where the defendant is guilty or not. After this is determined, then the judgement is handed down. Its the same principle.

If you look at the parable of the wedding, in Matthew 22 you would see three groups of people represented.

1. People who rejected the invitation to the feast.
2. People who accepted the invitation but had the incorrect garment.
3. People who accepted the invitation but had the right garment.

So the king (God) sends his servants (his followers, witnesses) to invite (prepare) all people to the wedding (second coming) of his son (Jesus Christ). In Revelation the symbolism of the second coming as a wedding feast is used many times and also used by Paul in his letters as well. The garment that one should have is the righteousness of Christ. There are some that would accept the invitation (professed Christians), yet they do not have the proper garment. Now before the bridegroom comes, the King does an inspection (investigation) to see if everyone present (Christians) actually have the proper garment. The is the same principle of the Investigative Judgement. The investigative judgement are only for professed Christians, because the others do not need to be investigated since they do not claim to be followers of Jesus and thus cannot be saved.

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The first judgement which is investigative is for professed christians or the house of God. When Jesus comes, there shall be no investigation but simply giving of rewards.

What is the purpose of the prejudgment, if God is omnipresent? Doesn't that mean He already knows? So what is He investigating? Do you have some Scriptural basis other than an assumption based on Rev 22:12? IOW where is this judgment found in Scripture? I Peter 4:17 isn't a reference to this supposed judgment IMHO. I think you have used it out of context.

When did this doctrine come into focus or being and why?

I've been a little busy today. And will be tomorrow also.

 

[listed]

Nobody has to stand before God literally to answer any questions. If you heard that, it has to be just an expression. When Jesus comes back, it is either you are saved or lost so those who are lost cant get no help from Christ of course. When Jesus bursts the clouds that's it. At that point there is no more grace being extended because it is time for the harvest.

What are you saying? It sounds like the IJ interfers with the other judgments.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

What is the purpose of the prejudgement, if God is omnipresent? Doesn't that mean He already knows? So what is He investigating? Do you have some Scriptural basis other than an assumption based on Rev 22:12? IOW where is this judgement found in Scripture? I Peter 4:17 isn't a reference to this supposed judgement IMHO. I think you have used it out of context.

When did this doctrine come into focus or being and why?

I've been a little busy today. And will be tomorrow also.

Well your question as to what is the purpose of the prejudgement is also valid for what is the purpose of a judgement. Since God is omniscient, he doesn't need to keep record of anything or have any books for him to know who are saved and who isn't. None of that is really for God's benefit. But God is conscious that there are angels who do not know everything and who would have heard many years ago from Lucifer that he was an unjust and unfair God. This whole process is for the angels in heaven and all the records are for us who will get there to realize that his judgement are faithful and true. The angels look at the judgement of God and will know beyond the shadow of a doubt that he is a fair God. When we get to heaven, and wonder why our pastors who we looked up to so much is not there, we can look through the books and see why they were lost and know that God is indeed fair.

What I said to you before is common sense. God's judgement must be transparent and validated so before you hand out reward, you would have some sort of investigation to figure out what the reward is supposed to be. God does the same thing (not for his benefit). When Jesus comes, the dead in Christ shall rise first! How will it be determined who the dead in Christ is? See what I mean?

I need to get some rest. I'll give you some scriptural references tomorrow.

 

[listed]

the IJ is a judgement of professed believers. to determine who are true and false believers. it began in 1844 at the end of the 2300day/year prophecy, according to sda interpretation of Daniel 8:14. when christ is done with the IJ, he will come and give his reward. the big problem with it is that, they say when Christ is done with his investigation we will have to stand in the presecne of God without and intercessor. we have to stand before God with no help from Christ. this is an impossible task for one thing and destorys the need for God grace.

Can you explain why God would put this off for roughly 1800 years? I can understand judging the past but certianly not the future. We're now what a good 150 plus years later. So how does this affect us, today? Where is the end of this judgement, or does it ever end? And why is it about professed Christians? Are the angels unable to know the Scripture? I read that the Christan has passed the judgement and has life in John 5:24. Is this wrong? Why would someone be judged for a reward before being found not guilty?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Can you explain why God would put this off for roughly 1800 years? I can understand judging the past but certianly not the future. We're now what a good 150 plus years later. So how does this affect us, today? Where is the end of this judgement, or does it ever end? And why is it about professed Christians? Are the angels unable to know the Scripture? I read that the Christan has passed the judgement and has life in John 5:24. Is this wrong? Why would someone be judged for a reward before being found not guilty?

I hope you don't mind me answering since I am an SDA.

God will begin with the dead. So God would not really be judging the future. At least that is what I believe. I don't see why God would judge someone who still has 20 years to live.


This judgement is for professed christians because it is easy to see that those who do not accept Christ and do not claim to follow him, are not saved. The angels can clearly see that. God knows the hearts of everyone, but the Angels do not. They cannot really tell which professed Christian is genuine or not. That is why this judgement is needed so that can understand why some professed Christians are lost. This goes back to the parable in Matthew 22. Those who didn't accept the invitation to the wedding, sealed their own fate by that decision. But among those who accepted, there would be some who do not have the right garment, and the inspection is for those people.

Judgement in the bible doesn't always mean that a decision has to be made or the record examined. Sometimes it means the sentence has to be handed out.

If you look at John 5:24 in the KJV is says:

King James Version (KJV)
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

KJV uses condemnation and it helps us understand that this judgement refers to the sentence that the wicked would receive.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

So this judgement is the sentence, not the investigation.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus Ahhhh thanks
One could go to these discussions on the SDA boards, copy paste a post and bring over to the GT thread to discuss. Not sure about the rules on that tho

I've read some of those threads. I'm not the lightest bit interested in debating those threads. It is said one can't understand the subject by reading them anyway. Kinda wierd if you ask me. Evidently they don't understand it either.

I'm asking for the topic to be explained in GT because an SDA (in a ministerial position) said I don't understand the IJ. So where is he since I've provided this fine opportunity. Evidently he doesn't understand it and can't or won't explain the doctrine.

Just give him time

.

 

[listed]

I hope you don't mind me answering since I am an SDA.

God will begin with the dead. So God would not really be judging the future. At least that is what I believe. I don't see why God would judge someone who still has 20 years to live.


This judgement is for professed christians because it is easy to see that those who do not accept Christ and do not claim to follow him, are not saved. The angels can clearly see that. God knows the hearts of everyone, but the Angels do not. They cannot really tell which professed Christian is genuine or not. That is why this judgement is needed so that can understand why some professed Christians are lost. This goes back to the parable in Matthew 22. Those who didn't accept the invitation to the wedding, sealed their own fate by that decision. But among those who accepted, there would be some who do not have the right garment, and the inspection is for those people.

Judgement in the bible doesn't always mean that a decision has to be made or the record examined. Sometimes it means the sentence has to be handed out.

If you look at John 5:24 in the KJV is says:

King James Version (KJV)
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

KJV uses condemnation and it helps us understand that this judgement refers to the sentence that the wicked would receive.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

So this judgement is the sentence, not the investigation.

So to me John 5:24 means that I have been already judged and awarded as a result of the ata judgement with life.

Romans 5:18 isn't talking about a judgement of an individual. That judgement of condemnation came without even being born and isn't related to the actions of any descendant of Adam.

 

[listed]

I hope you don't mind me answering since I am an SDA.

God will begin with the dead. So God would not really be judging the future. At least that is what I believe. I don't see why God would judge someone who still has 20 years to live.


This judgement is for professed christians because it is easy to see that those who do not accept Christ and do not claim to follow him, are not saved. The angels can clearly see that. God knows the hearts of everyone, but the Angels do not. They cannot really tell which professed Christian is genuine or not. That is why this judgement is needed so that can understand why some professed Christians are lost. This goes back to the parable in Matthew 22. Those who didn't accept the invitation to the wedding, sealed their own fate by that decision. But among those who accepted, there would be some who do not have the right garment, and the inspection is for those people.

Judgement in the bible doesn't always mean that a decision has to be made or the record examined. Sometimes it means the sentence has to be handed out.

If you look at John 5:24 in the KJV is says:

King James Version (KJV)
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

KJV uses condemnation and it helps us understand that this judgement refers to the sentence that the wicked would receive.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

So this judgement is the sentence, not the investigation.

So do you have some more?