What is the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ?

[Guojing]

Sin is the transgression of the law. The wages of sin is death. Death is the curse of the law. He became a curse for us. If there is no law, then there is no sin and no need of grace...

Actually if you read Romans 5:12-13, sin was in the world before the Law was given. It all began with Adam's disobedience.

So your statement "If there is no law, then there is no sin" cannot be correct.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Actually if you read Romans 5:12-13, sin was in the world before the Law was given. It all began with Adam's disobedience.

So your statement "If there is no law, then there is no sin" cannot be correct.

The law was given by HaShem. There was Adamic law too, not just Mosaic law. Adam broke it...that is what started all of this. Romans 4:15

 

[Guojing]

The law was given by HaShem. There was Adamic law too, not just Mosaic law. Adam broke it...that is what started all of this. Romans 4:15

Did you just make up a new term there?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Did you just make up a new term there?

What would that be?

 

[Guojing]

What would that be?

Adamic law

 

[Hammster]

Adamic law

God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
— Genesis 1:28

The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
— Genesis 2:16-17

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Adamic law

What did Adam disobey in Gan Eden?

 

[Guojing]

What did Adam disobey in Gan Eden?

Nothing about the law. Romans 5:13-14 states that the law started with Moses

 

[Guojing]

God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
— Genesis 1:28

The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
— Genesis 2:16-17

There is nothing in those passages that indicated Adam was under law.

 

[RobertPate]

Actually if you read Romans 5:12-13, sin was in the world before the Law was given. It all began with Adam's disobedience.

So your statement "If there is no law, then there is no sin" cannot be correct.

Then you must believe that Paul is a heretic.
"Because the law works wrath: for where there is no law, there is no
transgression" Romans 4:15. Spiritually speaking, Christians cannot sin.

 

[RobertPate]

There is nothing in those passages that indicated Adam was under law.

If there was no law, then how did Adam sin?

 

[Guojing]

If there was no law, then how did Adam sin?

He disobeyed God.

The key that Paul was trying to establish in Romans 5:12-14 was that, between Adam and Moses, people died even though they could not have disobeyed the only command that God gave not to eat from the tree, since they were barred from the garden.

Sin was not imputed to them because the law had not been given until Moses, yet they all died,

 

[RobertPate]

The believers in Rome would be the Church in Rome. Trust me on that. And I don't see how you conclude that the Churches in Asia or the Church in Jerusalem have no connection to the Church in Rome. And yes, God requires obedience among Christians and there is no reason to believe anything other than that.

Christians are called to live their lives before God as sinners, saved sinners. Paul struggled with sin. See Romans 7:7-25.

 

[Hammster]

There is nothing in those passages that indicated Adam was under law.

Why was he cursed?

 

[RobertPate]

Sin is the transgression of the law. The wages of sin is death. Death is the curse of the law. He became a curse for us. If there is no law, then there is no sin and no need of grace...

There is law, but Christians are not under it or subject to it. To be free from the law is to be under grace.

 

[Guojing]

Why was he cursed?

I didn’t say he was.

In the context of Romans 5:12-14, He died spiritually, and later on physically.

 

[RobertPate]

The believers in Rome would be the Church in Rome. Trust me on that. And I don't see how you conclude that the Churches in Asia or the Church in Jerusalem have no connection to the Church in Rome. And yes, God requires obedience among Christians and there is no reason to believe anything other than that.

The Bible does not recognize a church in Rome. What God requires for salvation is faith in Christ and his Gospel, not obedience.

 

[Hammster]

I didn’t say he was.

In the context of Romans 5:12-14, He died spiritually, and later on physically.

Why did he die?

 

[Guojing]

Why did he die?

If you eat from that tree, you will surely die.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Nothing about the law. Romans 5:13-14 states that the law started with Moses

No it doesn't. You do not understand what Biblical law means...