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But how do know when God reveals it? How do you know it was not the book of Mormon?
post #74
I didn't see him say he trusts it, or anyone else said so ?I asked "You still did not answer my question. If the Church became worldly 1700 years ago and the Church determined what should go into the Bible 100 years later then why should you trust it?"
Post #74 did not explain at all how you can trust a Bible that was assembled after the Church was already worldly.
Because the scripture was written long before a gentile hierarchy got it's hands on it.Post #74 did not explain at all how you can trust a Bible that was assembled after the Church was already worldly.
Exactly, as Jesus told Peter when He said the Father's truth was the foundation of His church, not any influence of man.Trust the Heavenly Father that He Did as He Says, in His Word.
Not trusting any man, per se.
As written in all Scripture; BY THE SPIRIT (of the FATHER YAHWEH) ...
"in spirit and in truth"
all other religions including Mormons have other spirits (not godly ones)
Because the scripture was written long before a gentile hierarchy got it's hands on it.
The canon was basically complete longer before it was made official and yes there could have been a bit of tweaking in the process, never mind that Peter and Paul's works were not back to back to show their conflict, or that Rev. was at the end yet written before John. But the point is, being human, the ruling gentiles had already overlooked the significance of the Gospel of the Kingdom, having no Hebrew background, focusing instead on religion building thus preferring the letters of Paul, and saw no need to eliminate The Kingdom. They could pass it off as the one they were building. They could self justify their actions (as man does) as representing a physical kingdom like they were building in order to rule, rather than serving the real Kingdom, which means governance of God over man's rule.. They were too far gone at that point to put His will before theirs.If this Gentile hierarchy was so corrupt, how can trust the way they assemble the Bible?
No, like the Reformers, Anabaptists count that as one of the "other" religions (or worse!) .These other religions would say that they have the right spirit. How do you know they are wrong and we are right?
Only Catholicism has the answer.
Agreed. Discernment is key. Just like in the world of man, within Christianity and each denomination there are two types. In the case of Christianity, it is those still of the world and those of the Kingdom. Opposing ideals in the same religion.Don't rely on mankind nor on religion.
The canon was basically complete longer before it was made official and yes there could have been a bit of tweaking in the process, never mind that Peter and Paul's works were not back to back to show their conflict, or that Rev. was at the end yet written before John.
But the point is, being human, the ruling gentiles had already overlooked the significance of the Gospel of the Kingdom, having no Hebrew background, focusing instead on religion building thus preferring the letters of Paul, and saw no need to eliminate The Kingdom.
They could pass it off as the one they were building. They could self justify their actions (as man does) as representing a physical Kingdom like they were building, rather than serving the Kingdom, which means governance of God over man's.. They were too far gone at that point to put His will before theirs.
I know what you are saying. I've tried it all and things have only got worse. People have talked about eternity, but that just makes me wish it was all over so that the next thing I know would be that. As it is I don't believe in taking the life that I have given to Him, so for now I am stuck.I'm not suggesting grunting around with other men. I know what you mean, life with navy guys was really rough. I found it hard to adapt when I left the navy.
I would urge you to look at the long term picture. This life is a blink of an eye compared with the next. What we do now sets us up for eternity. God knows you, all your needs, your trials and the reason why you are going through them. Sometime we have to cast all that we are, all the problems, all our desires, all our ambitions at His feet and tell Him that He can have it all. I had a vision when I was going through this stage. I saw myself like a kid with a bag of treasures - cricket ball, penknife, torch, string, whistle ad such. God asked me to hand myself over to Him. I started giving this and that, slowly, reluctantly. The Lord said to me, "Just give Me the bag!" So I did. We have to come to an end of ourselves. I gave many things for real. Music was one, competitive sport was another, and my ambitions to be something in life. In the last few years, some of those things have been restored. Not all. I still don't play sport. I'm not fit enough anyway. God wants us to serve Him because he is God, not because He is some kind of divine Santa handing out gifts. Many people want God for what He can do for them. Paul Washer put it well: many people want to go to heaven - as long as God is not there. This "come to Jesus, He has a wonderful plan for your life" is just salesmanship. Lord Jesus said that we enter God's kingdom through tribulation. I did not see that in the brochure! When we get our priorities right, God will release His blessings. I found my kids after 15 years by a miracle. We are not close, but I know they are ok. We prayed for my son. He was cleaning barrels in a recycling centre. He applied for a job with Apple, along with thousands of others. He's been there 6 years now.
If you will accept Jesus as Lord as well as Saviour, things will change for the better. If God finds no reason to withhold a blessing, He will release it. We need to humble ourselves. Complaining to God is ok. Complaining about God just digs the hole deeper.
I was not suggesting "grunting around" with other men. I was involved in a men's group that was just a "compare notes as to how hard done by we are" meeting. I did not stay. We need real Christian fellowship. If you do not find that in a church, start something yourself. I know of a motorcycle ministry. Men are being helped, healed, born again and encouraged. They started small and ended up with 50 or more. I know your circumstances are a little different, but you know what I am saying.
Again, the scripture was written long before the gentiles took over. And if you want to build an empire built upon God you need the works that not only described religion building but also an empire to come. That is how you justify empire building by using God. The Kingdom served man's purpose rather well. Just like everything else of God, man and the Adversary are quite capable of taking it and using for their own purposes. Two sides to every coin.If the Gentile Church was as corrupt as you believe, then the Church could have easily destroyed any writings that disputed the other books in the Bible.
Yes and that was based upon the truth from God, not the beliefs and truths (doctrines and theology) of man. Two different definitions of church. Remember the conversation Jesus had with Peter and the Apostles about that fact?The problem you are having is that your God is too small. Christ promised that the gates of death and hell will not prevail against His Church.
Paul said 'the truth', you say 'truth'. Big difference. One refers to 'the truth' of God, yours sounds more like 'truth' of a denominational church, am I right?. And Paul's church was the people who lived the truth from God, His two commandments. It was not an institution that claimed leadership. Paul was right. He taught the Gospel of the Kingdom as verified in Acts. The religion broadsided Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom/governance of God, and built it's own empire on the same foundation as the Roman Empire. It accepted what Jesus had turned down in the desert.Paul wrote that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth
Of course they did.. and they were wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.The Hebrews saw it as a physical kingdom as well.
What you are advocating is a modern-day Gnosticism - like the New Age movement.
theAgain, the scripture was written long before the gentiles took over.
And if you want to build an empire built upon God you need the works that not only described religion building but also an empire to come.
Yes and that was based upon the truth from God, not the beliefs and truths (doctrines and theology) of man. Two different definitions of church. Remember the conversation Jesus had with Peter and the Apostles about that fact?
Paul said 'the truth', you say 'truth'. Big difference. One refers to 'the truth' of God, yours sounds more like 'truth' of a denominational church, am I right?.
And Paul's church was the people who lived the truth from God, His two commandments. It was not an institution that claimed leadership. Paul was right. He taught the Gospel of the Kingdom as verified in Acts. The religion broadsided Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom/governance of God, and built it's own empire on the same foundation as the Roman Empire. It accepted what Jesus had turned down in the desert.
Of course they did.. and they were wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.
No, I'm advocating pre-Gentile interference. The time and church of the Way.. the example set by Jesus. A way of life, not subordination to yet another hierarchical institution with it's rules and customs and faux human authority that even had it's own army.
Final canonization means nothing. That's like a talentless recording studio picking out a greatest hit album of a talented musician.the
Again, what was determined to be scripture was done by the Gentile Christians.
You bet! One side focused on their own empire riding on the coat-tails of God. Remember there were two sides to the Christian coin. Don't confuse Christian with Catholic, especially latin.You make outrageous statement with presenting any evidence. I can present evidence that the Gentile Church was very concerned about the empire to come.
No, I do not remember Jesus talking about two definition of the church. Could you provide the reference?
OkI just forgot to insert the definite article. I was not thinking of a truth of a denominational church.
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