What is the firmament

[Job 33:6]

Look who's talking! Is this another picture of you?

If you had posted anything related to the OP, you should have stated. Otherwise, you are trolling.

The Bible has lots of content shared with earlier and neighboring civilizations that is more cultural reference than it is novel revelation. And this is important to understand when studying the Bible.

 

[Paul4JC]

The Bible has lots of content shared with earlier and neighboring civilizations that is more cultural reference than it is novel revelation. And this is important to understand when studying the Bible.

For sure. Leviathan and Behemoth, Two Strange Beasts Amazon.com (you can find in some libraries) another great subject are found all over the world. The axis-mundi motif is fascinating. So is biblical cosmology. So are the fallen angels, and they are god's in most cultures.

 

[Lost4words]

For me, 'Firmament' means the roof over my kennel!!

 

[Job 33:6]

Who are "the Hebrews"? Bible authors didn't borrow from anyone. [2Ti 3:16 NIV] All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, It doesn't say "scripture is borrowed" from other cultures. Also, it doesn't "some scripture is God-breathed,"

I don't think many Christians today fully understand their Bibles. Sadly they depend on science to explain history to them.

[1Co 3:1c-2 NIV] --mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.

[Gen 11:1, 9 NIV] Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.

Biblically, cultures don't develop until after the Babel event. Before that, it was all one language. Noah had all the necessary antediluvian revelation and information on the Ark and passed it down. After Babel, Noah's great-grandsons went in different directions and the seventy nations came to be.

[Gen 11:9 NIV] That is why it was called Babel--because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

When they explain the old stories they had passed down to them, post Babel, now with language change the stories change, yet retain some of the original context, but not all. Hence the worldwide flood views.

All mythologies reflect a lot of truth and a lot of confusion. Only the Bible has the true stories and explanations, including the firmament and cosmology.

[Job 37:18 ESV] Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?

Notice there is no word atmosphere in the Bible.

So given the pre scientific nature of ancient near east concepts of a solid sky, what is it about a solid sky that you consider to be "true" ? Do you think the sky is solid?

 

[Paul4JC]

Biblically, yes.

[Job 37:18 ESV] Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?

[Psa 74:17 ESV] You have fixed all the boundaries of the earth; you have made summer and winter.

[Gen 1:14 NIV] And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,

[Isa 40:22 NASB20] It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Yourself?

 

[trophy33]

Biblically, yes.

[Job 37:18 ESV] Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?

[Psa 74:17 ESV] You have fixed all the boundaries of the earth; you have made summer and winter.

[Gen 1:14 NIV] And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,

[Isa 40:22 NASB20] It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Yourself?

Not just biblically, the belief in a solid sky, heaven above it and in a flat earth with the waters around, under and above it is a common cosmology among basically all ancient nations all over the world.

Its understandable, because it seemed to be so, from the ancient perspective.

The problem arises when somebody is claiming that this prescientific view is literally inspired and infallible, like dictated by God, just because it is mentioned also in the Bible. And then invents tons of conspiracies to defend it.

 

[Job 33:6]

Biblically, yes.

[Job 37:18 ESV] Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?

[Psa 74:17 ESV] You have fixed all the boundaries of the earth; you have made summer and winter.

[Gen 1:14 NIV] And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,

[Isa 40:22 NASB20] It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Yourself?

What I'm asking is, when you travel to another country for example, are you worried about your airplane hitting a solid sky? And if not, then what is it about ancient cosmology, that you consider to be true?

 

[Paul4JC]

What I'm asking is, when you travel to another country for example, are you worried about your airplane hitting a solid sky? And if not, then what is it about ancient cosmology, that you consider to be true?

Your verse. Do you turn to mud when you wash your hands since you're made of clay?

No. Planes don't get that high. Neither do rockets. You can start with the verses I just gave you.

Do you not believe in Biblical cosmology?

 

[Paul4JC]

Not just biblically, the belief in a solid sky, heaven above it and in a flat earth with the waters around, under and above it is a common cosmology among basically all ancient nations all over the world.

Its understandable, because it seemed to be so, from the ancient perspective.

The problem arises when somebody is claiming that this prescientific view is literally inspired and infallible, like dictated by God, just because it is mentioned also in the Bible. And then invents tons of conspiracies to defend it.

These are not new ideas that I or the OP are presenting. When it comes to "space," many here bow at the altar of Science and NASA. I don't. The Bible is infallible. God is not a dictator. Come judgement day we'll all find out who created the conspiracies, right?

 

[trophy33]

many here bow at the altar of Science and NASA. I don't.

This is a religious terminology which does not fit into how science and "NASA" work.

The Bible is infallible.

Which Bible? In which language, which translation, which textual family, which manuscript or compilation of manuscripts, what canon, into what level (in main points, in every sentence, or even in every word?)

 

[Job 33:6]

Your verse. Do you turn to mud when you wash your hands since you're made of clay?

No. Planes don't get that high. Neither do rockets. You can start with the verses I just gave you.

Do you not believe in Biblical cosmology?

Planes don't go high enough to hit the solid sky? Is that what you mean? How high do you think it is?

And no, of course I don't believe that the sky is solid, as is described in Biblical cosmology.

Being a Christian doesn't require someone to also believe that the earth is flat, just because the ancient Biblical authors perhaps assumed it to be the case.

 

[Paul4JC]

Planes don't go high enough to hit the solid sky? Is that what you mean? How high do you think it is?

And no, of course I don't believe that the sky is solid, as is described in Biblical cosmology.

Being a Christian doesn't require someone to also believe that the earth is flat, just because the ancient Biblical authors perhaps assumed it to be the case.

Who's talking about flat earth? So you don't really believe the Bible? Why the facade then?

 

[Paul4JC]

This is a religious terminology which does not fit into how science and "NASA" work.


Which Bible? In which language, which translation, which textual family, which manuscript or compilation of manuscripts, what canon, into what level (in main points, in every sentence, or even in every word?)

Do you know what idolatry is? You don't really believe the Bible either?

 

[trophy33]

Do you know what idolatry is? You don't really believe the Bible either?

1. Define idolatry, because I am pretty sure your usage of the word will not be the standard one, considering you are talking about NASA
2. Define "the" Bible and what you mean by "believing the Bible".

These vague questions, based upon how you are feeling it in the moment, are not useful without a definition we can agree on.

 

[Job 33:6]

Who's talking about flat earth? So you don't really believe the Bible? Why the facade then?

So, in Biblical cosmology, the earth is flat. So I'm asking you, what about this, do you believe?

 

[Paul4JC]

So, in Biblical cosmology, the earth is flat. So I'm asking you, what about this, do you believe?

That's not what this OP was about. You and your buddy post 30 minutes apart.

Heiser was/is one of the best Bible teachers of the 21st century. Though he recognized Israelite cosmology to be true in that is what they taught, he sided with Science view, by using the doctrine of accommodation. He did believe in Genesis 6, angels intermarrying with women. Two Powers in Heaven. He accepted the usefulness of the book of 1 Enoch and other Pseudepigrapha. Such a doctrine of accommodation is more like a doctrine of copping out. I grew to love him over the years, but disagree with his views on embracing Science. Interestingly when I go back to his series on Revelation, he does affirm the view that angels are literally stars and also acknowledges that Behemoth and Leviathan are real creatures! (See his Book of Revelation teachings Podcasts around chapters 9-12).

 

[trophy33]

Did God create with his word or with his hands?

"In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands."
Psalm 102:25 (NIV)

"My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together."
Isaiah 48:13 (NIV)

If this is not literal, why days or firmament or man from dust must be literal?

 

[Job 33:6]

That's not what this OP was about. You and your buddy post 30 minutes apart.

Heiser was/is one of the best Bible teachers of the 21st century. Though he recognized Israelite cosmology to be true in that is what they taught, he sided with Science view, by using the doctrine of accommodation. He did believe in Genesis 6, angels intermarrying with women. Two Powers in Heaven. He accepted the usefulness of the book of 1 Enoch and other Pseudepigrapha. Such a doctrine of accommodation is more like a doctrine of copping out. I grew to love him over the years, but disagree with his views on embracing Science. Interestingly when I go back to his series on Revelation, he does affirm the view that angels are literally stars and also acknowledges that Behemoth and Leviathan are real creatures! (See his Book of Revelation teachings Podcasts around chapters 9-12).

So you believe that the sky is solid, but you don't believe that the earth is flat?

 

[Paul4JC]

So you believe that the sky is solid, but you don't believe that the earth is flat?

Does the Bible say it is? No. It is described as a circle though, not a ball, having a foundation. Heiser accepted and taught all this, yet embraced the doctrine of accommodation. I still appreciate all his teaching, but disagree with his approach to this subject. Maybe he didn't want to deal with all the haters, mostly Christian, that would arise. Especially since his work was amongst reputed scholars.

Rob Skiba saw the moon landing as a kid and wanted to be a NASA astronaut. He got as far as becoming a helicopter pilot In his later years he became probably the greatest advocate of flat earth. He also became an advocate of following the Torah. While I didn't agree with his Torah views, he did always make a lot of sense when it came to flat earth. He probably was the best advocate of the subject.

Both Heiser and Skiba have passed on in recent years.

The Flat Earth Controversy From A Biblical Worldview

Nobody is forcing anybody to follow any teaching, but biblical cosmology makes a lot of sense. I have yet to find those refuting such views doing so without mockery, chiding, and subtle insults.

So what is the earth? Biblically it is not a planet.

 

[Ace777]

angels are literally stars

We are literally stars.