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What is the Falsification for Abiogenesis and Theory of Evolution?

AV1611VET

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Sorry, I think god hid it from me. He must have turned out the light bulb and left no trace.
Let's just say He had a habit of writing what He did, why He did it, when He did it, where He did it, how He did it, as well as other details; but, of course, the more He writes, the more it gets denied.

Science is good at denial, then claiming they didn't find anything.

Kinda like the Menendez brothers murdering their parents, then claiming they're innocent because they are orphans.
 
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AV1611VET

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Well, for a Christian mystics as an example, they might put themselves by way of Love into the Heart of Christ and see what they see there from the perspective of Jesus.
Like when Jesus spoke the universe into existence?
 
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Ophiolite

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Actually, I'm wrong - wars, inquisitions, genocides, mass killings within the same religion, all manner of abuses (including sexual abuse by religious leaders). But by the warped theologies this is for the greater good somehow???
Here I disagree. The evil (let me call it evil and leave discussion of what that means to another thread) you describe is just humans being humans. Without religion humans would still commit such acts, finding some other justification. The same is true of the good that is done, by the religious and non-religious alike.
 
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Bertrand Russell White

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You're a credit to your education.

I've been saying for years here that one of academia's jobs is to reduce the Bible to a book of lies, myths, fairy tales, anything but what It is; and if academia has to do it one word at a time (Arab phoning "miracles" to "magic"), or handwaiving whole books (1 and 2 Timothy), they'll do it.

Thanks for the QED.

Yes, I know it is very disconcerting to think that the modern (or probably more accurately the postmodern world) world is deconstructing what you probably learned in SS. However, "... in understanding be men."

However, some Christian groups have realized that the SS version needs to be updated just a tad because we have learned a few things over a couple of 1000 years. To their credit, they are trying to discover what the history is behind the myths and separate myth from history. Much progress has been made on this by them and non-theists/non-Christians. Hopefully other writings and archelogy will turn up evidence that helps us understand how ancient Hebrew and Christian mythology arose and separate out fact from fiction. Fundamentalists always say things like "... will you believe if Noah's Ark is found..." yet they themselves are never seriously willing to submit to a body of evidence being found that would disconfirm their beliefs and WV. The atheist John Loftus, a former fundamentalist apologist, makes this point very well in his writings.

Christians have been involved with this in other religions for many years and have no trouble thinking this way about other religions. However, some Christians still have problems doing this with their own faith (most fundamentalists). John Loftus, a former Christian apologist and now an atheist who was trained by some of fundamentalist Christianity's best apologists, makes this point. He shows how their is a double standard. I've seen this with some of my Christian fundamentalist friends (I do have Christian and non-Christian friends believe it or not :) ). In fact, you might benefit from reading people like John Loftus and Don Barker with an open mind! :) Most fundamentalist won't because they seem afraid that "Satan will somehow influence them or some such nonsense". We must stay close to writings that are close to the word of god (basically people who reinforce my uncritical views of the Bible and of reality).

My biggest concern is that so much ancient material has been destroyed by overzealous Christians that this will be impossible from the earliest Christian times - No record, other than Paul's letters seem to have survived before about 70 AD - two generations after Jesus supposedly died. However, other Christian and Hebrew material is still being discovered all the time, that gives me hope.
 
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dlamberth

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Like when Jesus spoke the universe into existence?
For someone like Heldigard of Bingen, when sitting in the Heart of Christ she "experienced" Infinite Divine Compassion/Activated as the essence of Christ. And wanting to be Christ like, that's what she brought into her Soul. Stuff like that.
 
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Bertrand Russell White

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Here I disagree. The evil (let me call it evil and leave discussion of what that means to another thread) you describe is just humans being humans. Without religion humans would still commit such acts, finding some other justification. The same is true of the good that is done, by the religious and non-religious alike.

No, you are not disagreeing with me here. I'm engaging in the discussion within the Christian WV in the discussion. I don't actually believe it. Of-course what we call evil or not doing the good, or whatever you wish to call it would still happen. I fully agree. Modern Psychology and Science has helped us to understand why. As a unifying narrative, evolutionary biology is filling in the reasons why what we have called traditionally sin often has very solid reasons in our biology (such as self-interest) for increasing survival probability. However, it has to be off-set by altruism and other biological factors because naked self-interest is actually counterproductive if taken too far by an organism in its overall survival.

A good example of this was discussed in a scientific magazine a few years ago. It talked about the risk taking behavior of human males between the ages of 18 and 24. In the past, this was commonly referred to as immature "stupid behavior" and before that as sinful behavior because there is a high incidence of crime/societal problems associated with this stage in the life cycle for human males. However, the article pointed out that looking at this stage from a evolutionary developmental perspective helps shed light on why the behavior is happening. Young immature males are preparing to transition to full adulthood and are not familiar with their range of capabilities yet. What society calls risky behavior is them testing their boundaries and capabilities which come up against cultural norms and laws. It provides a very useful purpose within culture and society to be functional as adults. How effectively they learn things about themselves in this stage will either help to enhance their fitness in later life or may degrade it. New research seems to indicate that far from the risky behavior being of no important value, it is crucial for later development and fitness leading to reproduction, individual, group and family stability etc.
 
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AV1611VET

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John Loftus, a former Christian apologist and now an atheist who was trained by some of fundamentalist Christianity's best apologists, makes this point.
So John Loftus jumped ship.

Should that surprise us?

Didn't Paul warn him not to, or this would happen?

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
No record, other than Paul's letters seem to have survived before about 70 AD - two generations after Jesus supposedly died. However, other Christian and Hebrew material is still being discovered all the time, that gives me hope.
Then don't tell me "original Hebrew says this", or "original Greek says that" and expect me to believe it.

You can act like you have access to the originals, thanks to Satan's Wrong's Concordance, but you don't.

ETA: And for the record, it's AD 70, not 70 AD.
 
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AV1611VET

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For someone like Heldigard of Bingen, when sitting in the Heart of Christ she "experienced" Infinite Divine Compassion/Activated as the essence of Christ. And wanting to be Christ like, that's what she brought into her Soul. Stuff like that.
She needs a different chair. Let's pray she found the Right One before she died.
 
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AV1611VET

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How is Jesus the wrong chair for a Christian?
You wouldn't understand.

But for the lurkers who would ...

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Now please respond with your New Age bologna, so I can respond with, "Thanks for the QED."
 
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dlamberth

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Consider your mantra: The Bible Says It, That Settles It. That is as uncooperative as it gets, so get off your high and hypocritical horse with that sort of mud slinging.
AV's other mantra is "Science can TAKE A HIKE!
Which completely supports your point.
 
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AV1611VET

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AV's other mantra is "Science can TAKE A HIKE!
Which completely supports your point.
You know ... ever since I changed my "mantra" here:

Science as a Blessing

... you keep bringing it back, along with "X CAN TAKE A HIKE."

You're tempting me to put it back.
 
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dlamberth

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Now please respond with your New Age bologna, so I can respond with,"

If I have one thing a person could rightly call me a bigot over, it would be New Age junk.

I'm thinking that there's a highly intense and focused quality in the act of giving ones body, mind and soul to Christ that is out of your reach. Which I'm guessing is why your not understanding the mind of the mystics and so all your left with is to call it New Age junk.
 
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dlamberth

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You know ... ever since I changed my "mantra" here:

Science as a Blessing

... you keep bringing it back, along with "X CAN TAKE A HIKE."

You're tempting me to put it back.
Honestly, I think it's way more accurate of a description in your post here.
 
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dlamberth

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You wouldn't understand.

But for the lurkers who would ...

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Now please respond with your New Age bologna, so I can respond with, "Thanks for the QED."
There's a big difference between saying "I am Christ" compared to a person whose behavior and heart reflects in their Soul the Divine Compassion of Jesus Christ that is Activated in their lives.
 
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AV1611VET

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There's a big difference between saying "I am Christ" compared to a person whose behavior and heart reflects in their Soul the Divine Compassion of Jesus Christ that is Activated in their lives.
Thanks for the QED.
 
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Bertrand Russell White

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So John Loftus jumped ship.

Should that surprise us?

Oh yes, he was a very devote and fervent person for his faith - his own words. In the fundamentalist world, he would be like one of the apostles (excluding JI), or Paul, or Timothy or Barnabas or ... (fill in the blank) from jumping ship.

Didn't Paul warn him not to, or this would happen?

Nope, poor Paul had no knowledge of the modern world. I'm sure he would have seen the light, in a modern rendition of his own experience and joined up with modern thinking.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Then don't tell me "original Hebrew says this", or "original Greek says that" and expect me to believe it.

I'm not claiming expertise in Hebrew or Greek. I'm saying what recognized experts both Christian and non-Christian are saying which is consistent with current understanding of Science, history and Biblical Criticism (non-fundamentalist scholarship of the Bible). Nothing mysterious here.


You can act like you have access to the originals, thanks to Satan's Wrong's Concordance, but you don't.

No one does and no one had them all at once. The Bible and NT was never a document of original documents. It evolved like everything else. But this is accepted standard fare even amongst people who would call themselves fundamentalist/evangelical scholars but who also try to be true to following principles of modern Biblical scholarship. If you go against this then you are even going against conservative and fundamentalist Christian scholars. Wow! That is being pretty heady, I would say.

ETA: And for the record, it's AD 70, not 70 AD.

Oops, I stand corrected. Have to remember that because more and more we are seeing 70 or 80 or whatever CE? AD is losing its foothold, as we don't really know when it started. (Is Jesus birth 4 B.C. or A.D. 6 or ... ???) Checking the Bible seems to lead to contradictions. You'd think god could get his birthday right at least?!
 
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AV1611VET

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Oops, I stand corrected. Have to remember that because more and more we are seeing 70 or 80 or whatever CE? AD is losing its foothold, as we don't really know when it started. (Is Jesus birth 4 B.C. or A.D. 6 or ... ???) Checking the Bible seems to lead to contradictions. You'd think god could get his birthday right at least?!
Jesus, of course, would constitute AD 1, but since academians began questioning this passage:

Luke 2:2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)

... they, as usual, got themselves all confused and are now trying to make it look like it's the Bible's fault.

Academians: can't even tell time right.
 
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