what is the evidence that universe is 13.7B years old?

46AND2 said:

"The Age of the Earth" by Brent Dalrymple is a good starter. It was written in '91, and we have more/better methods now, but it gives a good synopsis about how the estimates got better over the years. I believe he developed the K/Ar and/or Ar/Ar methods.

Click to expand...

Bradskii said:

You can address the question asked. Which referenced gravitational effects. Is it not apparent that those effects will cause rotational effects in any moving mass?

Click to expand...

Hans Blaster said:

No. The Solar system did not form from a rotating supernova. Supernovae are expanding, the early solar system was collapsing.

How do small patches of the universe start to rotate? Easy. Start with any non-rotating uniform gas and inject a non-rotating disturbance (for example a jet of gas puffed into it. Alternatively you could think of a person walking in a straight line into a uniform block of air). When the intruding gas pushes the larger medium aside it starts to rotate. With one rotation sense on one side and the other on the opposite side. The net angular momentum is still zero, but there are now localized pockets of rotation.

This happens all the time with fluid-fluid interactions forming localized pockets of rotation. In a large molecular cloud there will be many randomly oriented pockets of low-level rotation that lead to the randomly oriented star systems when they collapse.

Click to expand...

Isaiah 41:10 said:

Stretching out the heavens, or the raqia, should not be conflated with stretching space time. The raqia was a solid dome perception of the authors of the ancient near east:

Let's look at some more verses on the raqia:
And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6 NRSV

God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8 NASB1995

And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14 NRSV

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:11 NRSV

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2 NRSV


And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20 NRSV

And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, the top of it reaching to heaven; and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. And the Lord stood beside him [or stood above it] and said, “I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring;
Genesis 28:12‭-‬13 NRSV


and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10 NRSV

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18 NRSV

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Job 37:18 KJV

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18 NIV


It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22 NRSV

Over the heads of the living creatures there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22 NRSV

And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form.
Ezekiel 1:26 NRSV

Then I looked, and above the dome that was over the heads of the cherubim there appeared above them something like a sapphire, in form resembling a throne.
Ezekiel 10:1 NRSV

When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:27‭-‬29 NASB1995


The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14 NRSV

Click to expand...

Hans Blaster said:

Since this is sciencey and on-topic I will reply to it...

The temperature of the CMB doesn't have a specific value for all possible BB cosmologies. The current, observable CMB temperature is related to how much expansion has occurred since the Recombination epoch as the original, unredshifted temperature of the background radiation is basically set by the atomic physics of hydrogen. The redshift to recombination is dependent on the expansion history of the universe and through it things like if the Universe was flat, the ratio of matter to non-matter, etc. T_CMB = T_Rec/(1+z) and z~1100. The guesses based on BB models that were within a factor of 2-3 were perfectly fine.

It is the *existence* of the CMB, *not* the exact value that is the prediction of general BB models. The exact temperature is very useful in constraining the parameters of the BB model.

If you think there are "alternative mechanisms" for forming the CMB you should spell them out.

Click to expand...