What is the difference between a Saint and a Sinner?

[Bro.T]

In this world of modern Christianity people refuse to read their bibles for themselves, instead they rely solely on their preacher. And that’s sad because most preachers don’t do in-depth studying of the bibles themselves instead they rely on prewritten sermons some of which can be found at the neighborhood bible bookstore. There are only a few preachers that actually teach the true uncut word of God. And when the average preacher does go into the bible most only want to read the writings of Paul. And they don’t even read all of Paul’s writing. They’ll read a verse or two here and there and try and build a doctrine on it. These are what we call selective readers, reading only what they think will support their false teachings. You can read to them straight scriptures out of the bible and straight statements that Jesus himself made, and they will look you in the eye and say, but Paul said! I got news for you; there is nowhere in the bible where Paul contradicts the word of God. And if you think there is then you need to do a more in-depth study of the scriptures. Paul’s place in the kingdom of God is guaranteed, can you make the same statement? It’s best you realized that Paul has no kingdom to put you in nor does he have a lake of fire to torment you in. Now we are going to take a close look at some of Paul’s writings, and the bible will clearly show you that it is on the same accord with the rest of the writers of God’s holy word.

First let me say that God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2 Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul.

Paul said in Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Now Paul is making a separation right here. A carnal minded person will not keep the law of God. Why? Because they are after the things of the flesh. And what things of the flesh, For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. (1 John 2:16) This Holiday coming up Christmas is of the world, For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: (1 Peter 4:3)
These things becomes sinful nature. We walking in the last days people we have come out of all this. We have to change our way of thinking, get back in this Bible. Read it from Genesis to Revelation. Do not let anyone tell you the Old testament is done away with. I can preach Jesus out of the Old testament and bring him ahead of our time. But still people will be like murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. (Jude 1:16)

But pay close attention to what Jesus says in John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12)

Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

Jesus Christ (John 1:1-3, 10-14) is the one who rested on the Sabbath day and commanded that you do the same. If you really understood the scriptures you would realize that He was the one who became known as Jesus who gave you the Ten Commandments. So not only did He command you to cease from your work on that day He also commanded you to. (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church. Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday). Paul says in Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. Yes you have works, even if its laboring in love, also, keeping the Sabbath day, the Lord Holy High days which is the plan of God in Leviticus 23rd chapter starting with the passover...etc.

 

[All Glory To God]

I would say a Saint is a born again Christian and sinners are the unconverted.

 

[Eilat]

A "Saint' is ALL the born again.

A "sinner" is this......... John 3:36

 

[St_Worm2]

...most preachers don’t do in-depth studying of the bibles themselves instead they rely on prewritten sermons some of which can be found at the neighborhood bible bookstore. There are only a few preachers that actually teach the true uncut word of God. And when the average preacher does go into the bible most only want to read the writings of Paul. And they don’t even read all of Paul’s writing. They’ll read a verse or two here and there and try and build a doctrine on it.

Wow, Bro. T, that's quite the diatribe to make against "most" preachers. I know that ~some~ preachers have been guilty of plagiarizing sermons (as I know of a couple of pastors who lost their jobs because of it), but what data do you have that shows/proves that this is true of most (or even of many) of our pastors? .. and that they only want to read and build doctrines using Paul's Epistles alone?

Thanks!

--David

 

[St_Worm2]

God had Peter warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2 Peter:3:15-16)

Wait, what

2 Peter 3
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our ~beloved brother~ Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom that God gave him.
16 He writes the same way in ~all~ of his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of ~the Scriptures~, to their own ~destruction~.
​

Peter perhaps 'admonishes' us to take care when reading Paul's Epistles so that we come to truly understand what God is saying to us through them.

The only true "warning" seems an indirect one to be careful to not be led astray by the twistings/distortions of Paul's Epistles by the ignorant and unstable, whose lives/beliefs/teachings are leading them (and no doubt others through their teachings .. cf Matthew 23:15) down the broad road towards destruction.

That said, these two verses tell us a LOT of other positive things about Paul and His Epistles, and are informative about the NT in general. For instance:

1. Peter (as we know from many other places in the Bible) tells us that Paul is considered to be a "dearly beloved brother" in Christ, and we find that to be true by most/all other Christians in the early church (most notably, by the Lord Jesus Himself, of course .. e.g. Acts of the Apostles 9:15, and by all of the other Apostles, as well .. e.g. Acts of the Apostles 15:25).

2. Paul's letters may require an additional amount of effort on our part to correctly understand them, but his words are, nevertheless, the breathed word of God (and therefore worthy any effort that we put in to correctly understand what they have to say ).

3. Peter refers to Paul's letters as "Scripture" itself, the twisting or distortion of which have/will lead some to their own destruction.

4. By calling Paul's Epistles "Scripture", Peter also helps us know and understand that the early church knew which NT Books and Epistles were considered to be Scripture/which of the 1st Century sacred writings belonged in the Canon (and were therefore binding upon our heart and conscience).
​

God bless you!

--David

Acts 9
15 The Lord said to him [Ananias], “Go, for he [Paul] is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel."
.​

 

[Bro.T]

I would say a Saint is a born again Christian and sinners are the unconverted.

How can you be born again? In Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. The Bible says this is what the saint do, right? Keep the faith and commandments of God.

 

[Bro.T]

A "Saint' is ALL the born again.

A "sinner" is this......... John 3:36

I agree, and believing is faith, but faith without works is dead (James 2:20).

 

[Bro.T]

Wow, Bro. T, that's quite the diatribe to make against "most" preachers. I know that ~some~ preachers have been guilty of plagiarizing sermons (as I know of a couple of pastors who lost their jobs because of it), but what data do you have that shows/proves that this is true of most (or even of many) of our pastors? .. and that they only want to read and build doctrines using Paul's Epistles alone?

Thanks!

--David

Jesus says in Matthew 7: 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Jesus says that you should know them by their fruits. Satan is always trying to mimic God. So if it is not of God then it is of Satan. So if the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday) is a sign between God and His people. Then the first day (Sunday) is a sign between somebody and his people. You can’t have it both ways you are either in or out. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. (v.14) And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (v.15) Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Cor.11: 13-15)

Yes Satan has his own ministers and they bring you his doctrine. Take the time and really read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and pray for understanding, really mean it. Maybe the lord will open your eyes to see. Paul say in (1 Tim.4: 1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; The word of God is the truth, that means this exist.

Open your eyes sisters and brothers and see. Let no man deceive you. As it is written in (Rev12:9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Satan through man (Religious Teaching) has deceived the whole world.

 

[St_Worm2]

Jesus says in Matthew 7: 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Jesus says that you should know them by their fruits. Satan is always trying to mimic God. So if it is not of God then it is of Satan. So if the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday) is a sign between God and His people. Then the first day (Sunday) is a sign between somebody and his people. You can’t have it both ways you are either in or out. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. (v.14) And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (v.15) Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Cor.11: 13-15)

Yes Satan has his own ministers and they bring you his doctrine. Take the time and really read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and pray for understanding, really mean it. Maybe the lord will open your eyes to see. Paul say in (1 Tim.4: 1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; The word of God is the truth, that means this exist.

Open your eyes sisters and brothers and see. Let no man deceive you. As it is written in (Rev12:9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Satan through man (Religious Teaching) has deceived the whole world.

Hmmm, you quoted my post (like you were going to reply to it), but what you just said has nothing at all to do with the questions that I asked you.(?) So I'll try again.

In the opening paragraph of your OP you said that "most preachers don’t do in-depth studying of the bibles themselves instead they rely on prewritten sermons some of which can be found at the neighborhood bible bookstore."

You also said that, "when the average preacher does go into the bible most only want to read the writings of Paul. And they don’t even read all of Paul’s writing. They’ll read a verse or two here and there and try and build a doctrine on it."

The two questions that I asked you in my first reply were these two:

1. What data do you have showing that this is true of most (or even of many) of our pastors (that most of them plagiarize their sermons)?

2. What data do you have showing that most preachers use Paul's Epistles alone to build all of their doctrines?​

So, what source(s) were the accusations that you made in your OP based on A Barna report perhaps? Something else?

Thank you!

--David

 

[All Glory To God]

How can you be born again? In Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. The Bible says this is what the saint do, right? Keep the faith and commandments of God.

When talking about regeneration or being born again, the place in scripture that holds the most detail on this event is John chapter 3. And in regard to being born again, Jesus equates the spirit of God that regenerates to blowing wind. The wind blows where it wishes.

I don't see that as a matter of discipline but election.

 

[Eilat]

I agree, and believing is faith, but faith without works is dead (James 2:20).

Yes, Faith is dead, but Salvation is not dead.
Salvation is JESUS, and He is in all the Born again, and the born again are "IN CHRIST".
So, Jesus who saved you, keeps you saved.
Once born again, always born again.
No exceptions.

See, a lot of misguided believers think that faith saves them, so they are trusting in Faith, and not in Christ.
Faith does not save you. Faith didnt hang on a Cross.
God saved you THROUGH your Faith, the INSTANT you gave it to Him, as Trust in Christ.
Born again once, saved once, done.

Many people teach your James verse in a way that abuses the verse and contradicts the Cross and denies God's Grace.
They teach it like this......they add to the verse, their self righteousness.....They say....>"faith without works is dead, so that means you have lost your salvation".
And those people that teach that..., are "fallen from Grace", and are up on their own Cross trying to save themselves, and would have you hanging on yours to try to keep yourself saved.

If you are trying to keep yourself saved, you are "fallen from Grace" and are "in the Flesh".
These are the same who live in Hebrews, and teach that Salvation can be lost by twisting every verse they can find, in Matthew, James, and Hebrews.

 

[Hawkins]

Sinner is a measurement against Law. Everyone is a sinner without exception (excluding Jesus). Righteousness is a measurement against a covenant. When judged by a covenant one can be deemed as righteous. Saintship is a measurement of holiness (which is the likeness of God and Jesus), that is how much you are like Jesus and God. In a loose sense, all the saved (by a covenant) can be referred to as the saints. In a stricter sense, those strive for living a life of holiness are deemed as saints.

So one can be a sinner, a righteous one, and a saint all at the same time.

 

[Bro.T]

Yes, Faith is dead, but Salvation is not dead.
Salvation is JESUS, and He is in all the Born again, and the born again are "IN CHRIST".
So, Jesus who saved you, keeps you saved.
Once born again, always born again.
No exceptions.

You don't take the time and read the Bible or have understanding in what you are reading. Born again is a change in the body not the mind. Let's go into John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Notice verse 3, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We have just learned something here. If you are not born again you can not see the kingdom of God. As we go further you will understand this. Remember there is a time for everything.

Nicodemus asked a very good question. Take a look at the next set of verses.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In verse 5, born of the water in this case is the Word of God. Notice the Lord mentions the kingdom of God again, but He adds a little more information. He says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When he mentions spirit He means exactly that. Watch how the Lord gives something physical to describe exactly what He means.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice He made a difference between flesh and spirit.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

See, a lot of misguided believers think that faith saves them, so they are trusting in Faith, and not in Christ.
Faith does not save you. Faith didnt hang on a Cross.
God saved you THROUGH your Faith, the INSTANT you gave it to Him, as Trust in Christ.
Born again once, saved once, done.

Many people teach your James verse in a way that abuses the verse and contradicts the Cross and denies God's Grace.
They teach it like this......they add to the verse, their self righteousness.....They say....>"faith without works is dead, so that means you have lost your salvation".
And those people that teach that..., are "fallen from Grace", and are up on their own Cross trying to save themselves, and would have you hanging on yours to try to keep yourself saved.

Is that right, let's see if Paul see it that way in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. It's not looking like you and Paul are the same wave of thinking here. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation.

If you are trying to keep yourself saved, you are "fallen from Grace" and are "in the Flesh".
These are the same who live in Hebrews, and teach that Salvation can be lost by twisting every verse they can find, in Matthew, James, and Hebrews.

Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. I don't see how one can twist what Jesus says here. And we in the last days, but you don't like to read the Bible for yourself, I can see that, so you rely on other doctrine.

 

[Bro.T]

Hmmm, you quoted my post (like you were going to reply to it), but what you just said has nothing at all to do with the questions that I asked you.(?) So I'll try again.

In the opening paragraph of your OP you said that "most preachers don’t do in-depth studying of the bibles themselves instead they rely on prewritten sermons some of which can be found at the neighborhood bible bookstore."

You also said that, "when the average preacher does go into the bible most only want to read the writings of Paul. And they don’t even read all of Paul’s writing. They’ll read a verse or two here and there and try and build a doctrine on it."

The two questions that I asked you in my first reply were these two:

1. What data do you have showing that this is true of most (or even of many) of our pastors (that most of them plagiarize their sermons)?

2. What data do you have showing that most preachers use Paul's Epistles alone to build all of their doctrines?​

So, what source(s) were the accusations that you made in your OP based on A Barna report perhaps? Something else?

Thank you!

--David

I'm not going in to detail on those question, I don't know your pastor. But you can't tell them by their fruit, according to Jesus. If false prophets was not in the Bible I would not have mention it. You have to read for yourself and determine who is who. Who ever those false prophets are they might change down the line. In the scriptures its written in Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. This is not about me pointing fingers, I don't do that, this is about Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15) and then you will them by their fruits.

 

[Bro.T]

When talking about regeneration or being born again, the place in scripture that holds the most detail on this event is John chapter 3. And in regard to being born again, Jesus equates the spirit of God that regenerates to blowing wind. The wind blows where it wishes.

I don't see that as a matter of discipline but election.

I haven't seen someone go to John 3 in very very long time. Good answer. Jesus is referring to the first resurrection, which many people who read John 3 can't make the connection. Let's go to Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Eilat]

You don't take the time and read the Bible or have understanding in what you are reading. Born again is a change in the body not the mind.

Bro T.

Your body is going to die.
They will cremate it, or bury it and the worms will eat it.
You are going to get a new body, after you are dead,= if you are born again.
So, your body, is not born again......your body is the currently dying container that holds your eternal Spirit.

God is A Spirit.
The born again, are born again by God's Holy SPIRIT.
We, the born again, are not born again in body, as we get a new one of those in Heaven.
This one dies, Bro T.
We, the born again, become a "new Creation", and that is our Born Again Spirit......not our body.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @Bro T. and @Eilat, I agree with Eilat (and so does the Bible). BOTH saint AND reprobate will be resurrected bodily at the end of the age, but only the saints of God are "born again" (spiritually), justified/saved & sanctified, and then (finally) resurrected AND glorified.

We are born again on ~this~ side of the grave.

John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which ~all~ who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.​

All, in Adam, are born (spiritually) dead, but only some in Adam will be born again (quickened/made alive spiritually) in Christ.

Ephesians 2
1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead ~in our transgressions~, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).
​

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

--David

Ezekiel 36
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
.​

 

[Bro.T]

Bro T.

Your body is going to die.
They will cremate it, or bury it and the worms will eat it.
You are going to get a new body, after you are dead,= if you are born again.
So, your body, is not born again......your body is the currently dying container that holds your eternal Spirit.

God is A Spirit.
The born again, are born again by God's Holy SPIRIT.
We, the born again, are not born again in body, as we get a new one of those in Heaven.
This one dies, Bro T.
We, the born again, become a "new Creation", and that is our Born Again Spirit......not our body.

I'm not sure which Heaven you are talking, in this day in age christian believe different things, and you did not post any scriptures or verses that describe what you saying. But I will do it, because it's very important that we are all on the same page in this gospel of Christ.

We, the born again, are not born again in body, as we get a new one of those in Heaven

Let's go into Paul writing in 1 Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So again we see a change in the Body not the mind and notice we shall not all die. This is the first resurrection, not everybody on earth or dead, but those dead in Christ. Makes a big difference in understanding this. This is also consider called born again. Born again is mostly describe as the thing this new body of man can do...see John 3. Also notice is was at the last trump. Let's see this event in more details in 1 Thessalonians 4:
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice people are meeting the Lord in the air and not coming down with him. And for those who don't know, the clouds are in the second Heaven, with the stars, moon, Sun, etc.

 

[grasping the after wind]

All believers are saints and all humans are sinners. All saints have been redeemed and saved. Some sinners become redeemed and saved. The redeemed and saved sinners are no longer subject to the wages of sin as they have been cleansed of their sin by the blood of Christ and God forgives them their sins and remembers them no more. .

 

[Bro.T]

Hello @Bro T. and @Eilat, I agree with Eilat (and so does the Bible). BOTH saint AND reprobate will be resurrected bodily at the end of the age, but only the saints of God are "born again" (spiritually), justified/saved & sanctified, and then (finally) resurrected AND glorified.

I don't know if you know each other, but I would make sure verses and scripture lines up with what a person is saying. But of course there was no verses or scriptures.

We are born again on ~this~ side of the grave.

John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which ~all~ who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.​

All, in Adam, are born (spiritually) dead, but only some in Adam will be born again (quickened/made alive spiritually) in Christ.

Ephesians 2
1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead ~in our transgressions~, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).
​

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

--David

Ezekiel 36
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
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Good verses and scriptures. But keep in mind it takes work in oneself to stop indulging in sin the desires of the flesh. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD"(James 2:20). Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).