What is sin?

[All Becomes New]

No, I was asking --not saying you were being sarcastic. But it did sound that way to me.

No biggy, and probably considered OT, but I have always found it interesting how a person can be a monergist concerning salvation, but a synergist otherwise. Like many other things, (for example, how a person can call themselves non-denominational may be from simply not realizing what denomination lines up with their thinking), you may consider 'synergism' vaguely, by saying one is "cooperating" with God, rather than using a more pointed definition, that says that the two efforts are greater than either one by itself.

It is something I started a thread on a while back and would like to discuss it more but I guess this isn't the thread for it.

Edit: Actually the doctrine of sin impinges on the question of monergism vs synergism rather dramatically; I leave it up to you to discuss or not, since it is your thread.

It certainly is not a thread I possess.

Christ invites us to the table as brothers even though we are in service to Him.

 

[Mark Quayle]

It certainly is not a thread I possess.

Christ invites us to the table as brothers even though we are in service to Him.

I'm not sure if "Christ invites us to the table as brothers even though we are in service to Him." (which I agree with, btw) is a mention of the reason you are synergistic about post regeneration or not --the inviting and such has been used by many as evidence of synergism. Or maybe you said that to demonstrate that you accept my bid into the off-topic discussion.

My thread did not appear to be interesting to very many folks, to be honest. To me the question is central to the thinking behind true monergism --"apart from me you can do nothing."

 

[Mark Quayle]

It certainly is not a thread I possess.

Christ invites us to the table as brothers even though we are in service to Him.

LOLOL my bad. Somehow I forgot that my brother Hammster was the OP, not you. I saw your post at the top of the page, and assumed it was you. I thought when you said it is not a thread I possess, you were referring to my thread about synergism after regeneration.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The apostle John defined sin as lawlessness (1 John 3:4). Since we know that the law can be summed up by the two great commandments (to love God and neighbour), I would expand on that as sin is any failure to fully and perfectly love.

"Apart from me you can do nothing"

 

[All Becomes New]

I'm not sure if "Christ invites us to the table as brothers even though we are in service to Him." (which I agree with, btw) is a mention of the reason you are synergistic about post regeneration or not --the inviting and such has been used by many as evidence of synergism. Or maybe you said that to demonstrate that you accept my bid into the off-topic discussion.

My thread did not appear to be interesting to very many folks, to be honest. To me the question is central to the thinking behind true monergism --"apart from me you can do nothing."

I don't accept bribes.

Christ invites us to partake of His Spirit once we are in Christ, not before. This doesn't mean we play no part in doing Good. It takes being a partner with the Holy Spirit, and with Christ, in service to God to do Good. We are constantly "receiving" from the Holy Spirit as believers, and we do our best to put that into action. The Holy Spirit does not take control of our bodies when we do Good, as Good as it can be given we are not Christ. We act on behalf of Christ, not perfectly, but by whatever power the Holy Spirit grants us to do Good. We always have to receive from the Holy Spirit to do Good, but it is impossible to do purely as we still have some blindness in us due to our Flesh. We do more Good by seeking to do Good making us less blind to what the Spirit is empowering us with.

LOLOL my bad. Somehow I forgot that my brother Hammster was the OP, not you. I saw your post at the top of the page, and assumed it was you. I thought when you said it is not a thread I possess, you were referring to my thread about synergism after regeneration.

I don't remember your thread. Perhaps you can link it and we can continue this there?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Christ invites us to partake of His Spirit once we are in Christ, not before. This doesn't mean we play no part in doing Good. It takes being a partner with the Holy Spirit, and with Christ, in service to God to do Good. We are constantly "receiving" from the Holy Spirit as believers, and we do our best to put that into action. The Holy Spirit does not take control of our bodies when we do Good, as Good as it can be given we are not Christ. We act on behalf of Christ, not perfectly, but by whatever power the Holy Spirit grants us to do Good. We always have to receive from the Holy Spirit to do Good, but it is impossible to do purely as we still have some blindness in us due to our Flesh. We do more Good by seeking to do Good making us less blind to what the Spirit is empowering us with.

The same could be said about becoming a believer. Certainly we play a part, since we are changed, we WILL necessarily respond in faith, repentance, obedience and love for Christ. But WE are not the cause. I don't say we don't play a part in anything, but that God alone is the one who does the work, though we too wear ourselves out for his sake. We are not without him able to do anything, even post regeneration. Our efforts don't complete his, nor add to them --our efforts are HIS. We are in Christ, and he in us.

We find ourselves believing, and our hearts ache with gratefulness and desire for Christ in us --we also find ourselves obeying, and our hearts ache for purity and closeness to God.

I don't remember your thread. Perhaps you can link it and we can continue this there?

Took me a bit to find it. I'm not too good at computers.

Reformed. Does monergism apply only to salvation/regeneration?

 

[RaymondG]

Sin, is to be in any state that you do not desire to be in. e.g. If you are poor when you desire to be rich.....you are living in sin.....

 

[Mark Quayle]

Sin, is to be in any state that you do not desire to be in. e.g. If you are poor when you desire to be rich.....you are living in sin.....

Can you support that from Scripture? The only thing I can think of right off the top of my head that can even be taken in support of that is, "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

 

[RaymondG]

Can you support that from Scripture? The only thing I can think of right off the top of my head that can even be taken in support of that is, "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

"2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee."

This man did not want to be sick......When his sins were forgiven, we became what he wanted to be........one who can walk.

 

[Mark Quayle]

"2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee."

This man did not want to be sick......When his sins were forgiven, we became what he wanted to be........one who can walk.

To me, that does not follow. The fact that his sins were forgiven him --even if that forgiveness 'permitted' or 'caused' his healing-- does not logically render "Sin, is to be in any state that you do not desire to be in. e.g. If you are poor when you desire to be rich.....you are living in sin....."

 

[RaymondG]

To me, that does not follow. The fact that his sins were forgiven him --even if that forgiveness 'permitted' or 'caused' his healing-- does not logically render "Sin, is to be in any state that you do not desire to be in. e.g. If you are poor when you desire to be rich.....you are living in sin....."

Try making it personal then. When sin is removed....it feels like a weight lifted off your shoulders. Would you not feel the same if you were in a lot of debt and then had all the debt removed? However, if you didnt care about the debt, or wanted to be in it...there would be no relief in having it removed.

"14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

This is why Salvation is in the removal of sin......for you pass from one state, an undesirable one, into a new state....one in which you desire to be in....

 

[Hammster]

Sin, is to be in any state that you do not desire to be in. e.g. If you are poor when you desire to be rich.....you are living in sin.....

So if you are hungry, and desire to eat, that’s sin?

 

[RaymondG]

So if you are hungry, and desire to eat, that’s sin?

No......if you are hungry and desire to be full, you are in sin.... e.g. if you are fasting......you are not in sin....because you desire to be in a hungry state.

 

[Hammster]

No......if you are hungry and desire to be full, you are in sin.... e.g. if you are fasting......you are not in sin....because you desire to be in a hungry state.

Why is it a sin to desire to be full?

 

[RaymondG]

Why is it a sin to desire to be full?

Because you are missing the mark. You have everything and need not want for anything. Your father is rich, and everything He has is yours. There is no need to want for anything, or desire what a neighbor has.

Therefore stop desiring to be full, and be full..... you will feel much better after this sin is forgiven.

 

[Hammster]

Because you are missing the mark. You have everything and need not want for anything. Your father is rich, and everything He has is yours. There is no need to want for anything, or desire what a neighbor has.

Therefore stop desiring to be full, and be full..... you will feel much better after this sin is forgiven.

Being hungry isn’t a sin. Wanting to no longer be hungry isn’t a sin.

 

[RaymondG]

Being hungry isn’t a sin. Wanting to no longer be hungry isn’t a sin.

Yes, being hungry isnt a sin, neither is being full. Being poor isnt a sin, neither is being rich.

The listing of individual sins, is pointless. I did not list any individual action or state of being, as a sin.

 

[mlepfitjw]

Moses was alone for like 40 years?

What? Isolation? Really? NPR station today.

Though he was studying I still enjoy the isolation sometimes and entertaining my ear, and eye with the internet... though a lot of it has to do with the way happened to grew up.

damn im a sinner.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, being hungry isnt a sin, neither is being full. Being poor isnt a sin, neither is being rich.

The listing of individual sins, is pointless. I did not list any individual action or state of being, as a sin.

I desire to be full when I’m hungry. That’s not a sin.

 

[RaymondG]

I desire to be full when I’m hungry. That’s not a sin.

If it werent a sin, for you, you would be content remaining hungry forever. Yet you find this urge to be forgiven of this hunger, and ultimately find this forgiveness.

Right now you may feel that you dont need God to remove this sin, because you have a wealth of food in your cupboard. But I say, to those who do not have this luxury, God is able to forgive all sins, and move us from death to salvation. Therefore, trust not in what we see....but in that which we do not see. Amen.