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So the question is quite simply: What is sin?
Don't argue with me, argue with this:
Matthew 6:33
33“But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
Hi
Disclaimer 1: If this is in the wrong sub-forum I ask that it please be moved as appropriate, it was not my intention to cause anyone distress.
Disclaimer 2: Regardless of how you view this question the intent is not to cause duress but rather it's intent is merely for me to find some clearer answers to things I was wondering about (1 Pet 3:15)
Disclaimer 3: English is my second language.
So the question is quite simply: What is sin?
But some clarification perhaps is necessary.
It would be nice if the answer made sense in the biblical context, firstly new testament but hopefully in regards to all.
Let me expand a little bit more on this...
Perhaps you would argue that sin is not doing God's will. If this is so then how does one know what God's will or God's command is? Was this the same for all people in history?
Perhaps sin is simply what we earn upon birth as humans? Then why so much bothering in the bible with regards to what actions we take especially in the old testament prophets? Why give the 10 commandments therefore? Does this then mean we are all sinners regardless of what we did or will do, in effect rendering all actions by man irrelevant accept for this original sin?
Perhaps you would argue that sin in the most general terms is simply being immoral? I would be interested in how you argue this from the bible and not purely with philosophy. Also how can we ever really know what is moral then?
Another option I can think of is that sin is in your heart disbelieving or simply rebelling against God. Firstly does this mean God condemns the human for something as simple as a thought crime? Which in reality one might not even know he is committing?
Perhaps I'm way off base and sin is explained completely differently?
There are many following up ideas on this but I feel is a good place for me to start and try to understand my faith/religion better.
Thank you for your time in trying to answer my mad ravings. (I am not a theologian, just a person trying to understand things with more clarity)
Sin is deliberate disloyalty to deity.Hi
Disclaimer 1: If this is in the wrong sub-forum I ask that it please be moved as appropriate, it was not my intention to cause anyone distress.
Disclaimer 2: Regardless of how you view this question the intent is not to cause duress but rather it's intent is merely for me to find some clearer answers to things I was wondering about (1 Pet 3:15)
Disclaimer 3: English is my second language.
So the question is quite simply: What is sin?
But some clarification perhaps is necessary.
It would be nice if the answer made sense in the biblical context, firstly new testament but hopefully in regards to all.
Let me expand a little bit more on this...
Perhaps you would argue that sin is not doing God's will. If this is so then how does one know what God's will or God's command is? Was this the same for all people in history?
Perhaps sin is simply what we earn upon birth as humans? Then why so much bothering in the bible with regards to what actions we take especially in the old testament prophets? Why give the 10 commandments therefore? Does this then mean we are all sinners regardless of what we did or will do, in effect rendering all actions by man irrelevant accept for this original sin?
Perhaps you would argue that sin in the most general terms is simply being immoral? I would be interested in how you argue this from the bible and not purely with philosophy. Also how can we ever really know what is moral then?
Another option I can think of is that sin is in your heart disbelieving or simply rebelling against God. Firstly does this mean God condemns the human for something as simple as a thought crime? Which in reality one might not even know he is committing?
Perhaps I'm way off base and sin is explained completely differently?
There are many following up ideas on this but I feel is a good place for me to start and try to understand my faith/religion better.
Thank you for your time in trying to answer my mad ravings. (I am not a theologian, just a person trying to understand things with more clarity)
Sin is an anomaly of nature; an act opposed to the will of God, and therefore opposed to our own God-given natures. It's always opposed to love of God and neighbor in some manner or another. To the extent that the act is free, deliberate, and with full knowledge, we are culpable for it. God did not create man to sin, and the fact that we do sin nevertheless is only proof that the doctrine of Original Sin is correct, because it teaches that all sin, or moral evil, is a result of man's being spiritually disconnected or out of communion with God, 'apart from Whom we can do nothing' to paraphrase John 15:5. To the extent that we are united with Him in a bond of love with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, sin is precluded-our justice is complete. This is a tall order, not necessarily to be fully realized until the next life...but, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible" Matt 19:26.Hi
Disclaimer 1: If this is in the wrong sub-forum I ask that it please be moved as appropriate, it was not my intention to cause anyone distress.
Disclaimer 2: Regardless of how you view this question the intent is not to cause duress but rather it's intent is merely for me to find some clearer answers to things I was wondering about (1 Pet 3:15)
Disclaimer 3: English is my second language.
So the question is quite simply: What is sin?
But some clarification perhaps is necessary.
It would be nice if the answer made sense in the biblical context, firstly new testament but hopefully in regards to all.
Let me expand a little bit more on this...
Perhaps you would argue that sin is not doing God's will. If this is so then how does one know what God's will or God's command is? Was this the same for all people in history?
Perhaps sin is simply what we earn upon birth as humans? Then why so much bothering in the bible with regards to what actions we take especially in the old testament prophets? Why give the 10 commandments therefore? Does this then mean we are all sinners regardless of what we did or will do, in effect rendering all actions by man irrelevant accept for this original sin?
Perhaps you would argue that sin in the most general terms is simply being immoral? I would be interested in how you argue this from the bible and not purely with philosophy. Also how can we ever really know what is moral then?
Another option I can think of is that sin is in your heart disbelieving or simply rebelling against God. Firstly does this mean God condemns the human for something as simple as a thought crime? Which in reality one might not even know he is committing?
Perhaps I'm way off base and sin is explained completely differently?
There are many following up ideas on this but I feel is a good place for me to start and try to understand my faith/religion better.
Thank you for your time in trying to answer my mad ravings. (I am not a theologian, just a person trying to understand things with more clarity)
Nowhere in the book of Acts does it say that anyone laid their total earnings at the Apostles' feet. Barnabas sold a piece of land and laid the proceeds there, and Ananias and Saphira paid the price of lying to the Holy Spirit about what they contributed. The reason for the appointment of deacons was for the support of widows who had no means to earn an income.When we support a view, it must be coherent, make sense, and it must be comprehensive, should apply in all situations.
Claiming that we should work for earthly treasure goes against so many teachings, but its supporters say that those who do not try to work for earthly gains are going against the teaching that looking after their family is Scripturally correct:
1 Timothy 5:8
8Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
And against the teachings that whoever does not work should not eat:
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.
I could just quote Bible verses that teach prioritising the gathering of God's children, and in fact, I did.
But it's the right thing to do to give the comprehensive explanation too, so here it is.
Let's explain what happened to those who counted the cost and received baptism.
Peter accused those who loved the world as belonging to an adulterous generation . Instead of being with God, their proper partner, they formed relationships with the world. Those who agreed with Peter were baptised, and broke of relationship with the world (they agreed that those who depended on for perishable needs even though the world was unreliable were foolish), and promised to return to God.
God gives proof of his ability and willingness to lead them into rest, proper living, being a blessing to the world, as Adam had been. In time, when enough proof had been given of God's faithfulness, God called us, to fully commit ourself to being that blessing, by manifesting His role in our lives in a highly visible way. Rahab was blessed when Joshua allowed God to use him to exhibit His power.
Was Abraham given proof of God's ability to bless? Yes. Was he afraid? Yes. Did he overcome his fear after seeing God's power? Yes. So God's power delivered Abraham out of the world into rest.
Was Moses given proof of God's power? Yes. Did he overcome his fear of risking his safety by placing it in God's hands? Yes. Did he hear God's voice? No. Did he act? Yes. Was God with him? No. Was he successful in being a blessing? No. The lesson is not to act when God is not with you or called you.
Did God call Moses later? Yes. Did Moses ask God to show Israel the same proofs he showed Moses? He did. Was Israel convinced by the proof? Yes.
Did God give Jesus proof of His power? Yes he did. Did God call Jesus out of Egypt? Yes. Did God give Jesus proofs to show Israel? Yes. Was Israel convinced to abandon the world and follow God? No they were not.
But it was not God's fault, just as it was not God's fault when Israel did not enter rest.
When people joined the disciples in Jerusalem in following God, God provided them proof of His ability and power to give them rest. However it still required them to respond, to show God they had faith in Him. Those who thought they could finish the house, had the means to complete the task, changed their lives, aligned it with what they had decided, and God then led them into rest, the ability to be blessings to the world.
The first part of the last sentence is very important.
The Bible describes what that response looks like :
The believer abandoned all dependency on the world.
The believer who did not have the confidence that he had the resources to compete the house asked for more time to repent.
The believer who was not confident of his ability to meet the challenge asked for terms of peace from the challenge, personified as a king of an opposing army.
The believer delayed whole hearted surrender to the challenge by making friends of those in the kingdom with unrighteous Mammon so that they would welcome him into eternal dwellings ( the ability to be blessings) when his worldly resources ran out.
So when the believer joined the disciples, he could lay down his resources at Peter’s feet or he could donate his regular earnings to the group.
The group used the money to support those who had fully committed their work to God.
Those who were fully committed had to do this work (manifest God's power) in order to continue to receive support. If they did not work they were not to receive support.
What happened to the family of those who were serving God in any one of the above ways? If the believer had extra resources, he had to support his family. Else the group had to do it.
Thank you for your very thorough and quite in detail reply! Especially thank you for giving so many bible references to clarify your point of view.
Am I correct in understanding that as referring to the law in this we are talking about the way Jesus represented it as the first 2 commandments (love the lord your god...) and we are therefore not including all the other laws given in the Torah? (I mean things like how to wash and offering and cleanliness etc.)
If I take the following statements from you: (I might be wrong in any of them sorry)
1. We know sin by the law given in the Bible/Torah
2. Until we are made aware of this law/sin we are not accountable
I might be understanding something wrong, but aren't there things in the bible that also indicate that God has placed somehow also given man a consciousness and therefore can sin even before the law/gospel is revealed to him?
In a nut shell, anything outside of Gods will for us, and also, knowing to do something is right and not doing it.Hi
Disclaimer 1: If this is in the wrong sub-forum I ask that it please be moved as appropriate, it was not my intention to cause anyone distress.
Disclaimer 2: Regardless of how you view this question the intent is not to cause duress but rather it's intent is merely for me to find some clearer answers to things I was wondering about (1 Pet 3:15)
Disclaimer 3: English is my second language.
So the question is quite simply: What is sin?
But some clarification perhaps is necessary.
It would be nice if the answer made sense in the biblical context, firstly new testament but hopefully in regards to all.
Let me expand a little bit more on this...
Perhaps you would argue that sin is not doing God's will. If this is so then how does one know what God's will or God's command is? Was this the same for all people in history?
Perhaps sin is simply what we earn upon birth as humans? Then why so much bothering in the bible with regards to what actions we take especially in the old testament prophets? Why give the 10 commandments therefore? Does this then mean we are all sinners regardless of what we did or will do, in effect rendering all actions by man irrelevant accept for this original sin?
Perhaps you would argue that sin in the most general terms is simply being immoral? I would be interested in how you argue this from the bible and not purely with philosophy. Also how can we ever really know what is moral then?
Another option I can think of is that sin is in your heart disbelieving or simply rebelling against God. Firstly does this mean God condemns the human for something as simple as a thought crime? Which in reality one might not even know he is committing?
Perhaps I'm way off base and sin is explained completely differently?
There are many following up ideas on this but I feel is a good place for me to start and try to understand my faith/religion better.
Thank you for your time in trying to answer my mad ravings. (I am not a theologian, just a person trying to understand things with more clarity)
...
So the question is quite simply: What is sin?
...
I don't understand how your response has anything to do with what I said.You are "missing the mark" about God's Law or are not quite right.
ROMANS.7: = 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
ROMANS.6: = 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
There is God's Law or Moses Law and there is Roman Law, US Law, English Law, Sharia Law, etc.
Christians are to “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” (MATTHEW.22:21) Caesar can mean the government of the day.
... IOW, US Christians are to obey US Law unless US Law jeopardizes their salvation, eg when the US government enacts a penal law to require every citizen to receive the "mark of the beast"(computer chip implants.?). So, US Christians should pay taxes to their government/Caesar and tithe(= about 2%) to God. US Christians, eg business-persons, should not discriminate against homosexuals or other LGBTQs, as per US Law(let God deal with them).
As per ACTS.15:24-29, Gentile Christians are required by God to only keep the non-burdensome parts of Moses Law, especially laws on morality, eg the Ten Commandments(EXODUS.20).
... In comparison, Jewish Christians have to keep as many laws of Moses as possible.
In this way, both will be blessed by God on earth and in the hereafter(= saved from hell when they die).
.
.
P S - During the time of Jesus Christ, under Roman Law, adultery, homosexuality/sodomy, incest, prostitution, idolatry and blasphemy were not crimes, but were sins/crimes under Moses Law.
... Today, under US Law, similarly, adultery, homosexuality/sodomy, idolatry and blasphemy are not crimes, but are still sins/crimes under God's Law.
Hi Stormy haven't seen you for ages. Is your son still posting here? Sorry can't remember his nameGod gave us the ten commandments.
He even wrote it in stone.
I'm so sorryPerhaps you are speaking of my daughter? Went by the handle messenger. She died in 2015
Nowhere in the book of Acts does it say that anyone laid their total earnings at the Apostles' feet. Barnabas sold a piece of land and laid the proceeds there, and Ananias and Saphira paid the price of lying to the Holy Spirit about what they contributed. The reason for the appointment of deacons was for the support of widows who had no means to earn an income.
It sounds to me that you are advocating that everyone who is a believer should leave their jobs and work for the Lord, and somehow the Lord will support them financially. Is that what you are doing?
The Jewish economy in the first century was largely agricultural, and most earned an income by farming or fishing. The Temple workers were supported by tithes from those who earned their income.
It is interesting that Jesus earned His income by being a carpenter until He started His ministry. After that, he was supported by a group of wealthy friends and supporters. Peter and John may have left their fishing business to follow the Lord, but there were two miracles of such a large catch, that the proceeds of it would have supported them financially for a very long time.
Paul was a tent maker by trade, and he preferred to work and earn his own income instead of receiving support from the churches. There were also believers in Caesar's court. They would not have worked there for nothing.
I know that God always finances His will. When I was a mature student in my 30s, in my second year I got down to my last $100. I asked the Lord for help. What He did was to get me a part time job to see me through the rest of my studies. He didn't drop money out of the air, nor did He provide a benefactor. He gave me opportunities for employment so I could earn a living while I studied.
I have heard of people going into full time service, believing that the Lord will provide for them. When they failed through lack of finances, their family going hungry and clothes falling off their backs, they had to go and find a job to keep their family fed. I believe that it was their own desire to go full time and not the Lord's desire for them, otherwise He would have provided for them. I think that the motivation for going full time for the Lord is that they are bored with the routine of their jobs, and want more spice and adventure in their lives. So they read a few books about successful full time ministries and try to copy them - and fail miserably.
Most people I know who went successfully into full time ministry are those whose ministries became so successful that they had to give up work to continue, and the financial support was there from those who were benefiting from the ministry and were only too happy to contribute. In many cases, it was a difficult decision to give up their jobs because they would have been quite happy doing either. Some, when the ministry dried up and came to a logical end, they just went back to work quite happily.
We don't know how the other Apostles supported themselves while spreading the gospel. We know that Luke was a doctor and would not have stopped "doctoring", earning his own living while travelling with Paul. We are not told how Peter was being supported, or any of the other Apostles.
Also, the Early Church was quite different than our modern churches. Then they had all things in common and those who had plenty made sure that those in need were supported. This is not like our modern churches which are split up into denominations and most of the money contributed is there just to support the church organisation and little else.
Hi
Disclaimer 1: If this is in the wrong sub-forum I ask that it please be moved as appropriate, it was not my intention to cause anyone distress.
Disclaimer 2: Regardless of how you view this question the intent is not to cause duress but rather it's intent is merely for me to find some clearer answers to things I was wondering about (1 Pet 3:15)
Disclaimer 3: English is my second language.
So the question is quite simply: What is sin?
But some clarification perhaps is necessary.
It would be nice if the answer made sense in the biblical context, firstly new testament but hopefully in regards to all.
Let me expand a little bit more on this...
Perhaps you would argue that sin is not doing God's will. If this is so then how does one know what God's will or God's command is? Was this the same for all people in history?
Perhaps sin is simply what we earn upon birth as humans? Then why so much bothering in the bible with regards to what actions we take especially in the old testament prophets? Why give the 10 commandments therefore? Does this then mean we are all sinners regardless of what we did or will do, in effect rendering all actions by man irrelevant accept for this original sin?
Perhaps you would argue that sin in the most general terms is simply being immoral? I would be interested in how you argue this from the bible and not purely with philosophy. Also how can we ever really know what is moral then?
Another option I can think of is that sin is in your heart disbelieving or simply rebelling against God. Firstly does this mean God condemns the human for something as simple as a thought crime? Which in reality one might not even know he is committing?
Perhaps I'm way off base and sin is explained completely differently?
There are many following up ideas on this but I feel is a good place for me to start and try to understand my faith/religion better.
Thank you for your time in trying to answer my mad ravings. (I am not a theologian, just a person trying to understand things with more clarity)
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