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I think it is futile to continue a muddled discussion.
Because it is not Truth, according to the dictionary, is conformity to fact or actuality; a statement proven to be or accepted as true.
A half truth is a whole lie. This is true because
If the intent in revealing a half-truth is to deceive, then the heart-issue is deception. If you look at Matthew 5, Jesus teaches that it is the thoughts and the will of someone that determines their heart. Jesus called pharisees, who "appeared" holy to others, whitewashed tombs. They appeared good to others, but inside they were rotten. a white lie is the Pharisees of lies. it is worse than an out and out lie. Because it is masquerading as something pure (The Truth.)
Just because something is not evil does not mean it is not a sin.
Remember that the Bible teaches that we have ALL sinned (regardless of what it is), and need God's grace and forgiveness through Jesus.
this means righteousness is not obtained by living a sin free life.
Truth, according to the dictionary, is conformity to fact or actuality; a statement proven to be true.
A lie is not the truth.
It is a common practice, in particular, among politicians, that one can avoid a strait forward answer to a question but is not lying. In fact, there are many ways to answer a question without telling the whole truth. However, they are not flat lies either. For example, the two spies hided in a (large) pile of hays. Does Rahab really know exactly where they are?
And there are many types of deception in a strategic sense (e.g. in military operation, or in business), I don't think we should say they sinned by staging the deception.
So, how do we tell that a so-called "lie" is a sinful lie in the eyes of God (admittedly, most of them are. But not all of them are)?
Of course, we can not examine every one of ours acts in such a tedious way. So, there must be another simple way which can tell us if an action or a thought is sinful. The one you said: "expressed will of God" could be as murky as any other one.
This explanation even escapes the boundaries of how the world defines a lie or an untruth. Not to mention how clearly the bible defines a lie or even the intent of lying as I pointed out in Mt 5.It is a common practice, in particular, among politicians, that one can avoid a strait forward answer to a question but is not lying. In fact, there are many ways to answer a question without telling the whole truth. However, they are not flat lies either. For example, the two spies hided in a (large) pile of hays. Does Rahab really know exactly where they are?
And there are many types of deception in a strategic sense (e.g. in military operation, or in business), I don't think we should say they sinned by staging the deception.
How have you "muddled" the definition of a lie? A lie is a verbal deception. at the Heart of which (the sin) Being deception itself. When is a deception not a sin? If you believe to be in God's expressed Will then please give us book chapter and verse so that we may explore this revelation together.So, how do we tell that a so-called "lie" is a sinful lie in the eyes of God (admittedly, most of them are. But not all of them are)?
Yes there is one can stop deluding himself into thinking he can ever be righteous and holy, and simply accept the atonement offered. We can not obtain righteousness by scrutinizing our actions or trying to live out the expressed will of God. This is not possible.Of course, we can not examine every one of ours acts in such a tedious way. So, there must be another simple way which can tell us if an action or a thought is sinful.
Not sure what this means.The one you said: "expressed will of God" could be as murky as any other one.
This explanation even escapes the boundaries of how the world defines a lie or an untruth. Not to mention how clearly the bible defines a lie or even the intent of lying as I pointed out in Mt 5.
How have you "muddled" the definition of a lie? A lie is a verbal deception. at the Heart of which (the sin) Being deception itself. When is a deception not a sin? If you believe to be in God's expressed Will then please give us book chapter and verse so that we may explore this revelation together.
Yes there is one can stop deluding himself into thinking he can ever be righteous and holy, and simply accept the atonement offered. We can not obtain righteousness by scrutinizing our actions or trying to live out the expressed will of God. This is not possible.
Keep the underlined portion in mind, but also realize the bold print is the definition or the heart of what a lie is. (a deception) It is to this heart according to Mt 5 that is at the core of all sin. Sin is not just measured by your actions, but by the true intentions of your heart. Again At the heart of a lie is deception. Wanting to deceive and deceiving is like lusting after a woman not your wife and fornicating with a woman not your wife, or hating a man and murdering a man. It is to the intent that our actions are judged. Or so says Christ in Mt.5A good example of deception is what Satan said to Eve. Satan said the truth, but he is trying to deceive and to ruin the best creation of God.
However, has Satan sinned in this case? I don't think so.
Then reread what was underlined again.
That's why the definition of sin is not limited to disobedience. Sin is ANYTHING not in the Expressed Will of God. God Expressly told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. As you have pointed out Satan in an effort to try and deceive took the whole truth and misrepresented in such a way to deceive eve from being in the expressed will of God, to being outside of the expressed will of God.He did not disobey.
It is a sin because God's Will is not being met.
What happened to Job was indeed in God's will. For Satan had to get authorization from God to proceed with his torments.Otherwise, there would not be the story of Job.
But it is. I can give scripture if you want.A verbal deception without a direct and a complete conflict with the truth should not be counted as a lie.
Can you do the same here? (Give scripture to support this new doctrine?)In particular, if we use this strategy in doing God's work. Lying is a sin. But deceiving may not be a sin
Keep the underlined portion in mind, but also realize the bold print is the definition or the heart of what a lie is. (a deception) It is to this heart according to Mt 5 that is at the core of all sin. Sin is not just measured by your actions, but by the true intentions of your heart. Again At the heart of a lie is deception. Wanting to deceive and deceiving is like lusting after a woman not your wife and fornicating with a woman not your wife, or hating a man and murdering a man. It is to the intent that our actions are judged. Or so says Christ in Mt.5
Then reread what was underlined again.
That's why the definition of sin is not limited to disobedience. Sin is ANYTHING not in the Expressed Will of God. God Expressly told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. As you have pointed out Satan in an effort to try and deceive took the whole truth and misrepresented in such a way to deceive eve from being in the expressed will of God, to being outside of the expressed will of God.
It is a sin because God's Will is not being met.
What happened to Job was indeed in God's will. For Satan had to get authorization from God to proceed with his torments.
But it is. I can give scripture if you want.
Can you do the same here? (Give scripture to support this new doctrine?)
It seems I am fighting an uphill battle. So, my assignment is to find a deception in the Scripture which is acceptable (even blessed) to God. In fact, Rahab is the example in my mind. But I guess I need to find a more explicit one.
How about Jacob? Is he another father of deception (before he changed)? Is he blessed anyway?
(I know my argument is not good enough. But I like to see how would you respond.)
It seems I am fighting an uphill battle. So, my assignment is to find a deception in the Scripture which is acceptable (even blessed) to God. In fact, Rahab is the example in my mind. But I guess I need to find a more explicit one.
How about Jacob? Is he another father of deception (before he changed)? Is he blessed anyway?
(I know my argument is not good enough. But I like to see how would you respond.)
Also the one where God ordered outright lying to be done on His behalf, at least twice. Once to tell a king he would get better, once to trick a king into engaging in battle.
It seems I am fighting an uphill battle. So, my assignment is to find a deception in the Scripture which is acceptable (even blessed) to God. In fact, Rahab is the example in my mind. But I guess I need to find a more explicit one.
How about Jacob? Is he another father of deception (before he changed)? Is he blessed anyway?
(I know my argument is not good enough. But I like to see how would you respond.)
Also the one where God ordered outright lying to be done on His behalf, at least twice. Once to tell a king he would get better, once to trick a king into engaging in battle.
Also the one where God ordered outright lying to be done on His behalf, at least twice. Once to tell a king he would get better, once to trick a king into engaging in battle.
And another one in Judges 20. That is what I was trying to say. In order to win a military campaign, deceiving is almost a must. This one seems to be encouraged by God directly. It is not a sin, it is a strategy.
This seems illustrates a common advice: we should be "sensitive" to sin. The sensitivity here can go both ways. The key is to listen to God. This is really something.
And another one in Judges 20. That is what I was trying to say. In order to win a military campaign, deceiving is almost a must. This one seems to be encouraged by God directly. It is not a sin, it is a strategy.
This seems illustrates a common advice: we should be "sensitive" to sin. The sensitivity here can go both ways. The key is to listen to God. This is really something.
Book, Chapter and Verse was the actual request. Not a commentary alluding to book chapter and verse.
1 Kings 22:
20 And the LORD said, Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there? One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, I will entice him.
22 By what means? the LORD asked.
I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets, he said.
You will succeed in enticing him, said the LORD. Go and do it.
2 Kings 8:
9 Hazael went to meet Elisha, taking with him as a gift forty camel-loads of all the finest wares of Damascus. He went in and stood before him, and said, Your son Ben-Hadad king of Aram has sent me to ask, Will I recover from this illness?
10 Elisha answered, Go and say to him, You will certainly recover. Nevertheless, the LORD has revealed to me that he will in fact die.
As I said, two cases of lying on behalf of the LORD. The first case is also clearly a case of the LORD commanding the deception.
Lying is a sin no matter what. God does not command a lie, however he has given the authority to deceive. (Kinda like the distinction you wanted to make between killing and murder.)So is lying a sin only when someone who is not God does it or commands it?
Apparently we have two Old testament examples where God did so, or do we?Does God command to sin?
For some there is no difference, and for them killing in certain circumstances is always murder. Even so, their have been examples of God giving an order to kill were many would only see murder. (Women and Children) Here like in the case of lying if one simply judges the act, and not the purpose or intent or weighs in the Will of God they will only see sin. So for the legalist who's concern is their own strict interpretation of the law, they can only see sin. But for the one who sees sin as anything not in the Expressed Will of God then no sin takes place. Because as scripture explains Sin is a matter of the intentions of ones heart.As you say, God commands to kill in some cases, but also never forbids killing.
At the heart of bearing false testimony is what root sin? It is deceit. What is at the core of a lie? it is still deceitOf the 10 Commandments, 16 You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor." is not saying do not lie, and 13 You shall not murder." is not saying do not kill.
This post is ridiculous. You Quoted a book and gave a chapter but fail to mentioned a verse that supports any of what you have claimed.(In previous posts)
Look, if you want to believe this because this is how you "feel" then by all means have the courage to do so. But do not misrepresent the word of God to give you the illusion of authority.
If this act is not blaspheme against the Holy Spirit it is the paved road that leads to that sin. In that you are taking a legitimate work of the holy Spirit and twisting it to suit your own agenda.
If you wish to show me where I am mistaken then please take the time to highlight the verses in question:
Otherwise know that you telling white lies is still a sin unless you are in a OT battle.
In Judges 19-20, Israelites fight Benjamites.
The first war: Israelites asked God: should we fight? God says: Go and fight. Israelites were defeated.
The second war: Israelites asked God again: should we fight? God says: Go and fight. Israelites were defeated.
The third war: Israelites asked God: should we fight again, or simply quit? God says: Go and fight, you will win this time.
In the third war, Israelite tricked (cheated) Benjamites and won.
And to you this means lying is ok?
What of all of the direct commands that tell us not to lie or practice deceit? do we simply ignore a direct command because one can twist this story to suit a want to practice deceit?
I am sure this have been discussed time and again, endlessly and interminably, and so can anyone direct me to some good thread on the topic, or if not a good short one-sentence answer if you have one. THANKS!
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