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WHAT IS SHALLOW FAITH?

Discussion in 'Word of Faith' started by Si_monfaith, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    Was faith to be completely healed, planned by God before He created time OR faith to be completely healed is "our" plan, "in time" after we were born?

    "Has not God chosen the poor in the world to be rich in faith and to be heirs of the kingdom (James 2:5)".
    "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world (Ephesians 1:4)".
     
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  2. public hermit

    public hermit Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Planned by God before the ages began, i.e. before the beginning of time (2 Timothy 1:9).
     
  3. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi @Si_monfaith, in answer to your title question, "WHAT IS SHALLOW FAITH", I would say that it's a faith that does little trusting of and/or surrendering to God, and His will for our life.

    This was not true of Abraham however :oldthumbsup:

    Romans 4
    20 With respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief, but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God,
    21 and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

    Perhaps the "poor" of this world are rich in faith because they can't buy their way out of trouble as easily as the rich (in power and possessions) can, so they put their trust/faith in God as their only hope :amen:

    --David
     
  4. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    Do you mean to say it wasn't God's plan before He created time, for them to have faith?
     
  5. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi Si-monfaith, no, my original reply was in response to your OP title question alone.

    As to your question here, since God loved, chose and predestined to adoption all of us who are or who will be His, and that from everlasting .. e.g. Jeremiah 31:3, Ephesians 1:4-6, and since He's always known that we would need His Son to be our Savior, I would say that He has always known (from everlasting) that our salvation would be a gracious one through faith as well.

    However, that's not how God started things out for us .. e.g. Genesis 1:26-27, 5:1, but it is how things ended up because of us .. e.g. Ecclesiastes 7:29.

    --David
     
  6. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    What is faith?

    Romans 10:17

    So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
     
  7. SavedByGrace3

    SavedByGrace3 Whoever calls on the name of Jesus will be saved Supporter

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    Never heard of it. Cannot answer.
     
  8. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Every faith was known and thoroughly planned and everything needed completely supplied and orchestrated by Yahuweh before the world was created.
     
  9. SavedByGrace3

    SavedByGrace3 Whoever calls on the name of Jesus will be saved Supporter

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    Help me out guys... I don't have my Bible here:

    Hebrews 11
    Faith is the substance of things hoped for,
    the evidence of things not seen.

    It is not the denial of things that are. I think that is important to realize. I do not lie and say "I do not have a cold..." I simple side with the Word and profess it to be the truth "I believe I am healed for 'by his stripes we were healed."
     
  10. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    So you agree it was God's plan before He created time, to give faith to be healed for His chosen ones?
     
  11. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    Do you believe God has chosen you before He created time in order to give faith which completely heals you?
     
  12. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    The Bible tells us this, in the OT and the New.

    Isaiah 53
    5 He was pierced through for our transgressions,
    He was crushed for our iniquities;
    The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
    And by His scourging we are healed.

    1 Peter 2
    24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

    God gives us the gift of saving faith .. Ephesians 2:8, which we exercise to believe, but you are speaking of something else, yes? So, in what sense are you saying that faith "heals" us?

    Thanks!

    --David
     
  13. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    Did Jesus say "your faith saved (healed) you" in Mathew 9:22?

    Wasn't that faith planned to be given to her before He created time?
     
  14. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Yes, and that is the point we have faith and our faith grows by hearing His word ... teachings from the Word of God (things hoped for) by hearing (listening to) the Word of God. As we study His Holy spirit teaches us and our faith grows.
     
  15. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Yes, there are 2-3 such accounts reported in Matthew, Mark and/or Luke. In the case you mention, a woman was healed from her long-term affliction by faithfully going to Jesus (who she believed could heal her) but, as we learn in the more detailed account in Mark 5:25-34, Jesus was the One who did the actual healing ("power proceeding from Him had gone forth when she touched His garments").

    Anything that happens/whatsoever comes to pass, is ordained by God before it happens (He knows the end from the beginning, after all .. Isaiah 46:9-10), including the fact that this afflicted woman would faithfully pursue Jesus to be healed by Him.

    I am confused about the point that you are trying to make however, about faith and what God planned to do for us from everlasting, so please let us know what that is.

    Thanks!

    --David
     
  16. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    For the woman in mathew 9:22, was she chosen to be given the faith before God created time or after He created time?
     
  17. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    No ... I believe He knows (foreknowledge) of all who will have faith and come to Him. God creates all His intelligent beings with free will (including the angels). He doesn't make anyone's choices for them ... but He knows what their choices will be.

    God ... knowing mankind would fall put the plan of salvation (through Jesus) in place before creation ... that all who would believe in Him might be saved. Jesus is the only means by which anyone can be reconciled with God. Salvation is a gift, but one has to make a decision (choose) to accept the gift and open it or not. This is one's first step of faith ... (they have heard about God - covered below)

    He knocks on everyone's door ... will they answer the door and let Him in? Only God knows who will answer. Only God knows what is in someones heart.

    It's about His laws and being in obedience to them (out of love and for no other reasons). Lucifer & the 1/3 angels transgressed the law (sinned) and thereby were kicked out of heaven (they had choice). Adam & Eve transgressed His law (sinned) and sin entered the human race (they had choice).

    Every intelligent living creature He created has always been made aware of His law(s).

    Early on the angels and Adam & Eve (before the fall) had direct communication with God and onward throughout much of the OT. As history unfolded then the written word came into being. So as the following verse states .... faith by hearing ... from God/Jesus Himself or from His written Word (preached and/or written)

    Romans 10

    17 So faith is from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

    God doesn't force anyone to believe ... therefore He wouldn't choose (predestine) anyone to have faith in Him as that would violate their free will to choose Him ... or not to choose Him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019 at 9:40 AM
  18. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    The Bible tells us that we are loved with an everlasting love .. e.g. Jeremiah 31:3, meaning that there was never a time in eternity past when God did not love those of us who are or who will be His (and this is true whether God's elect are chosen by Him graciously, or chosen by Him on the basis of what we do, IOW what He saw us doing in regard to the Gospel as He looked down through time from eternity past).

    So yes, since God knew who would be His from everlasting, He also knew who He would be giving the gift of saving faith to from everlasting.

    --David

    "Everlasting love shall be the pillow for my head this night" ~Charles H. Spurgeon
    .
     
  19. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    So what does, "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world (Ephesians 1:4)" mean?
     
  20. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    Is there a bible verse to support this?
     
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