What is required for salvation?

[skylark1]

Grace,

I assure you that I have studied this from the Bible. I am not sure why you seem to so sure that I haven't, unless it is because I do not see things exactly as you do. Yes, I question the usage of the phrase "another Jesus." I agree that there are LDS beliefs about Jesus that are not Biblical, but he is still the same Jesus. I have not claimed that these beliefs are true.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Grace,

I assure you that I have studied this from the Bible. I am not sure why you seem to so sure that I haven't, unless it is because I do not see things exactly as you do. Yes, I question the usage of the phrase "another Jesus." I agree that there are LDS beliefs about Jesus that are not Biblical, but he is still the same Jesus. I have not claimed that these beliefs are true.

I suppose I assumed this because you presented it several times as a sincere question that you did not have the answer to. However, from this post it appears that you did not have a sincere question about it at all but were rather just trying to bait us or just felt the urge to let people go on and on about their beliefs until you got sick of hearing about it and admitted your already had your own beliefs on the subject. I will be more caucious with the questions you ask in the future. Thanks for the heads up, better late than never.

God Bless-
Grace

 

[skylark1]

I suppose I assumed this because you presented it several times as a sincere question that you did not have the answer to. However, from this post it appears that you did not have a sincere question about it at all but were rather just trying to bait us or just felt the urge to let people go on and on about their beliefs until you got sick of hearing about it and admitted your already had your own beliefs on the subject. I will be more caucious with the questions you ask in the future. Thanks for the heads up, better late than never.

Grace, I offered these questions as sincere questions for discussion:

According to the Bible ....

What is required for for salvation?
What must we do?
What exactly must we believe?
Can someone hold unorthodox beliefs and still be saved?


They were offered for discussion. Because I have studied something does not mean that I claim to know all of the answers or have any opinions. I had hoped that it would be an interesting discussion where all were free to offer their opinions, and show their beliefs from the Bible.

I am truly sorry that you feel that I was merely trying to "bait" people. There was nothing insincere about this on my part.

 

[wheelz72vette]

To have salvation: What is required for for salvation?: You must take the 5 steps of Salvation. What must U do?: 1. Hear(Im not gonna give a verse for this because I think we all believe this one) 2. Believe(Mark 16:16) 3. Repent(Luke 13:3) 4. Confess(Romans 10:9) and 5.Baptism(1 Peter 3:21, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16 if u want more just ask). Now, if u think Romans 10:9 contradicts 1 Peter 3:21, that is not true. U have to take the bible as a whole. What must we believe: The truth, that is the bible. There is only one true belief, "one lord, one faith, one baptism(Ephesians 4:5)". As for the last question, it depends on what u think is unorthodox. Please reply to this I am willing to discuss at anytime.

 

[skylark1]

Hi Wheelz,

Welcome to CF.

I noticed that you had the message "baptism saves" as part of your profile. Not to take anything away from baptism, but it is Jesus who saves. I was more interested in the question of if one can hold unorthodox beliefs and still be saved - thus the question "what is required for salvation?" I am not trying to judge anyone's salvation, just seek what the Bible actually says about this.

 

[wheelz72vette]

Ok, skylark, as to the thing about the baptism saves thing, your right, but the point i was trying to get across with that is that baptism saves though our burial with christ. I think we all agree that we are saved though/by jesus, but most of have different ideas on how to do that. I was expressing my belief in that baptism saves.
As for the unorthodox belief question, if u consider catholicism orthodox, well then u must have an unorthodox belief to go to heaven because catholicism is one of the worst, if not the worst, unbiblical form of christianity(if u can even call it christian, i consider it to be pagan) there is. Nearly everything they do and say is unbiblical. So to answer ur question, u MUST have an unorthodox belief if u want to have salvation. There is only one way to get heaven, and that is through a new birth in christ.

 

[Netpreacher]

According to the Bible ....

What is required for for salvation?
What must we do?
What exactly must we believe?
Can someone hold unorthodox beliefs and still be saved?

There should be one question asked prior to all these great questions:

God has a moral law which is binding upon all people (Romans 2:14-15; 3:19-20).

Everyone has disobeyed God's holy commandments (Romans 3:10,23).

When a person breaks God's law, this is known as sin (1 John 3:4).

Because of your sin, God has separated Himself from you (Isaiah 59:2).

Because of your willful disobedience to God, you deserve death (Romans 6:23).

However, In God's mercy and love, God wants to give you another chance (2 Peter 3:9). I

f you ever change your mind concerning your sin, God has given you His Son to pay the penalty for your sin (John 3:16).

When you agree with God that the death of Jesus Christ is good enough to pay the penalty for your sins, God will forgive you of all your sins. (Romans 10:9-10; 1 John 1:9; Hebrews 9:22).

Once your sins are removed, you can come to God (Hebrews 4:16).

Then, you can ask God for His Spirit, the Holy Ghost, to dwell in your heart (Acts 2:38).

When you believe that Jesus Christ has risen physically from the dead, the Spirit of God will come into your heart, and you will be born again by the Spirit of God, the Holy Ghost (John 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3).

Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved (Acts 16:31)!

Attempting to make every man perfect in Christ Jesus,
Danny

 

[Kevin Graham]

I haven't read this from the start, but the Bible clearly teaches that obedience is necessary for salvation. Nothing is possible without Christ, and his grace is what makes everything possible. It is up to us to apply his grace however, but following him. And in following Him, we obey his commandments. Faith without works is dead. If you don't obey, you're not following him, and all the talk about being saved is just lip service.

Likewise, if you think you can work your way to heaven without accepting the atonement of Christ, you got another thing coming. It takes both, not one or the other.

 

[wheelz72vette]

Dear Netpreacher,
Where do you get "Then, you can ask God for His Spirit, the Holy Ghost, to dwell in your heart (Acts 2:38)" from Acts 2:38?
Acts 2:38 does say that, but left out another just as important part: "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Do gain the holy ghost, you must repent and be baptised.
As for Acts 16:31, look ahead in verse 33:''And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway." Every example of salvation in Acts uses baptism. Not once anywhere in bible does it say" and he prayed and accepted god into his heart and was saved".
As for what you said about John 3:5, that says you must be born again of spirit AND of water. "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
And In peter 1:3, it says
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." Thats does not say anything about accepting him to your heart or how to be saved. The only true way to be saved is to hear, believe, repent, confess, and be baptised.
1 Peter 3:21:"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." I do not mean to sound harsh, I just wish clarify what you are saying.

 

[Netpreacher]

As for what you said about John 3:5, that says you must be born again of spirit AND of water. "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
And In peter 1:3, it says
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." Thats does not say anything about accepting him to your heart or how to be saved. The only true way to be saved is to hear, believe, repent, confess, and be baptised.
1 Peter 3:21:"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." I do not mean to sound harsh, I just wish clarify what you are saying.

The phrase "hath begotten us again" is another way of saying "has born us again." We are born again by the resurrection of Christ Jesus from the dead. If we say, "I am saved because I am baptized," this gives us a way to credit ourselves with salvation, rather than relying upon the grace offered to us all by the blood shed by Christ Jesus on the cross, and the atonement provided therein, and by the power of the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead to provide us with the power of His Spirit, the Holy Ghost, to dwell in us all by faith in His powerful provision to all mankind.

Jesus tells us throughout the Gospels to ask the Father for His Spirit. I am at work, so I cannot right now give you those exact verses, but in the near future I will provide them for you.

Attempting to make every man perfect in Christ Jesus,
Danny

PS The temple is not made with human hands, but is the body of Christ through the faith of His believers in Him.

 

[RufustheRed]

I haven't read this from the start, but the Bible clearly teaches that obedience is necessary for salvation. Nothing is possible without Christ, and his grace is what makes everything possible. It is up to us to apply his grace however, but following him. And in following Him, we obey his commandments. Faith without works is dead. If you don't obey, you're not following him, and all the talk about being saved is just lip service.

Likewise, if you think you can work your way to heaven without accepting the atonement of Christ, you got another thing coming. It takes both, not one or the other.

Couldn't disagree with you more, Kevin. The Bible clearly states that it is God's grace at is the catalyst for the faith that is necessary for salvation. Obedience to the commandments of Jesus Christ are the results of that faith. That obedience to his commandments are evidence to man that a person has faith. If the works are absent, the faith wasn't there to begin with.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- v9. not by works, so that no one can boast.

I am well aware that J. Smith stated it grace comes "after all we can do," but who can really do enough for God? How does one know when or if they have done enough to merit God's grace? It must be uncomfortable and disconcerting not knowing if one has done enough "works" to please God and therefore inherit the eternal reward of being with Him forever.

Sven

 

[RufustheRed]

The first and most important thing we do to gain salvation is to be born. Without that there is no way to gain salvation.

DUH! Without being born one does not exist, therefore, the question is nullified. I'm sure you are speaking of the LDS concept of pre-existence, but the Bible speaks against that.

Please note the sequence
I Corinthians 15:44 - 46: 44 It is {1st}sown a natural body; it is {2nd}raised a spiritual body. There is {1st} a natural body, and there {2nd}is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


Sven

 

[RufustheRed]

Gordon Hinckley stated, “I look to him. I love him. I seek to followhim. I read his words, and they become the standards to be observed in guiding this great Church as it moves forward in fulfilling its eternal destiny.”
This is what he said in December at an annual Christmas celebration.

Who is "Him," you ask?

“Him”? That’s Joseph Smith. The “great Church” is, of course, the Mormon church. Hinckley extolled not only Joseph Smith, but Jesus Christ—albeit with these awkward words:Christ assured “salvation for all men. Their eternal lives are in His hands, and their eternal progress lies in obedience to His teachings.”
“And now [Christ] has come again, introduced to the boy Joseph [Smith] by His Father in a grand theophany unequaled in the history of the world.”
“The fruits of that plan [the great plan of happiness outlined by the Savior] depend upon our personal righteousness....”
Bottom line: Mormonism requires Jesus and Joseph, both.

Sven

 

[Kevin Graham]

I didn't disagree with anything you said until:

== I am well aware that J. Smith stated it grace comes "after all we can do," but who can really do enough for God?

You're recreatng the Mormon construct to suit a straw man. After all we can do, it s grace that saves us. In other words, in spite of what we do, grace saves us.

== How does one know when or if they have done enough to merit God's grace?

Easily. Just follow Christ like he says. Follow throughout your entire life. Doesn't mean take one step and considered yourself secured forever. That was the mistake of Judas.

He said we had to endure till the end in order to be saved. Nowhere does he say one act of faith gets you into heaven no matter what you do from there on. This is where we disagree. But then again, so does the majority of the Christian world.

[Edited by a moderator]

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Gordon Hinckley stated, “I look to him. I love him. I seek to followhim. I read his words, and they become the standards to be observed in guiding this great Church as it moves forward in fulfilling its eternal destiny.”
This is what he said in December at an annual Christmas celebration.

Who is "Him," you ask?

“Him”? That’s Joseph Smith. The “great Church” is, of course, the Mormon church. Hinckley extolled not only Joseph Smith, but Jesus Christ—albeit with these awkward words:Christ assured “salvation for all men. Their eternal lives are in His hands, and their eternal progress lies in obedience to His teachings.”
“And now [Christ] has come again, introduced to the boy Joseph [Smith] by His Father in a grand theophany unequaled in the history of the world.”
“The fruits of that plan [the great plan of happiness outlined by the Savior] depend upon our personal righteousness....”
Bottom line: Mormonism requires Jesus and Joseph, both.

Sven

Sven, I think that this perticular topic gets hard to discuss between lds and Christians because while both groups use the same terminology, the meanings are not at all the same. The lds salvation is a universal resurrection of all man, the Christian salvation is eternal life in the arms of our loving Christ.

God Bless,
Grace

 

[happyinhisgrace]

DUH! Without being born one does not exist, therefore, the question is nullified. I'm sure you are speaking of the LDS concept of pre-existence, but the Bible speaks against that.

Please note the sequence
I Corinthians 15:44 - 46: 44 It is {1st}sown a natural body; it is {2nd}raised a spiritual body. There is {1st} a natural body, and there {2nd}is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


Sven

Yes, there is no need for salvation if we are not born because we do not exist. The bible teaches that we become natural first and THEN spiritual. Not spiritual, natural and then spiritual again.

Those are good passages to point that out sven, thank you.

God Bless,
Grace