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Not really.Oh-oh! Did I step into an argument!
The context is about the end of the church age which is still in the future. All the really competent Bible commentators know that from John Calvin onward. The Scripture does not say that the perfect is the Bible. That is just your speculative addition. Paul's canon of Scripture was the Old Testament when he wrote 1 Corinthians.We believe the prophets ended when the Word of God was completed in AD 96.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come [the Bible], then that which is in part shall be done away.
And we like to put it this way:
The OT prophets FORETOLD the Truth.
The NT prophets FORTHTELL the Truth.
In other words, the NT prophets are our preachers today.
Works every time...Oh-oh! Did I step into an argument!
Don't get your nose out of joint! I just gave my opinion and you have every right to take it or leave it. What does the Scripture say? "Give advice to a wise man and he will love you for it."Why do you raise this ???
Are you intimating that I did not handle the issue wisely ?
Was praying about how to wisely deliver the Word for 12 months not enough?
The Word was delivered in writing to him alone in confidence.
Nothing was 'blown wide open'
Are trying to 'correct' the way I acted ?
The Church was not a safe place to fellowship.
The son was a youth group leader.
Women were at risk.
Our Word was dismissed - we had to leave.
Don't get your nose out of joint! I just gave my opinion and you have every right to take it or leave it. What does the Scripture say? "Give advice to a wise man and he will love you for it."
Don't get your nose out of joint! I just gave my opinion and you have every right to take it or leave it. What does the Scripture say? "Give advice to a wise man and he will love you for it."
It is obvious that if the pastor was not going to accept your word and exercise church discipline as he should, then he disqualifies himself as a pastor in the body of Christ. Therefore his ministry is not of the Holy Spirit and therefore unreliable. I think you did the right thing leaving that church because by continuing to support that pastor by sitting under his ministry, you would have been partaking of his sin. Eli came off second best because as priest in Israel, he failed to discipline his two sons, and as a result they came to an ignominious end and he died a premature death.That is exactly what I did but he was unfortunately not wise...
Many of the OT prophets were killed because they stood up against the idolatry that was happening. In a church with corrupt leadership it is those who stand up against the corruption who are the ones who suffer the most.You were criticising one of the most difficult things I have had to do - not done lightly and not without much prayer.
This part of the OP reminds me of what Jesus taught, "the Truth will set you free"When prophecies are given, they must be evaluated. Paul taught the Thessalonians to "test all things and hold to that which is good." The test is to determine the effect that the prophecy has on the listeners. If a prophecy is given and no one understands what is being said, then the prophecy fails the test, because it has said nothing of substance and therefore falls short of Paul's definition of prophecy. If a prophecy predicts a future event such as "this year there will be a wave of refreshing across the body of Christ with signs, wonders, and miracles" and nothing happens by the end of the year, then it also fails the test because what was predicted never happened.
Overnight I had some interesting new thoughts about NT prophecy. I thought through 1 Corinthians 14 and consider what Paul actually said about prophecy and what he didn't say.
Firstly, he didn't say that NT prophecy was the direct voice of God Nor did he say that it has a predictive component. Therefore I conclude that these were not components of prophecy as far as Paul was concerned.
It was a word of knowledge. However, all the supernatural gifts of the Spirit are prophetic. What Peter did was to pronounce summary judgment on Ananias because the latter lied to the Holy Spirit. Paul did the same to Elymas who tried to block the Roman official hearing the Gospel. The casting out of the demon from the servant girl by Paul was a combination of the word of knowledge and discerning of spirits.Was it not prophetic and predictive when Pater announced that Ananias would drop dead ?
His role is to provide edification, exhortation and comfort to genuinely converted believers who love the Lord and are walking right with Him.
All I am doing is reflecting what Paul is actually saying about prophecy to the Corinthians. I am drawing a distinction between a believer prophesying in church, and a person performing the office of the Prophet. Therefore the prophecies of believers in church are totally different in nature to the ministry of Prophet. There are people who call themselves Prophets in our churches, who are not true NT Prophets, but are believers exercising the gift of prophecy. I think there is confusion about prophecy in church and the role of Prophet, through shonky teaching and individuals giving themselves titles that are not appropriate for them.I am uncomfortable with formularizing Scripture like this.
Sure a prophetic gift may bring these three, but often more as He wills.
This is a favourite claim of those who don't really believe in the gifts it seems, as these three are expressions of Love and are within the scope of all true believers.
All I am doing is reflecting what Paul is actually saying about prophecy to the Corinthians. I am drawing a distinction between a believer prophesying in church, and a person performing the office of the Prophet. Therefore the prophecies of believers in church are totally different in nature to the ministry of Prophet. There are people who call themselves Prophets in our churches, who are not true NT Prophets, but are believers exercising the gift of prophecy. I think there is confusion about prophecy in church and the role of Prophet, through shonky teaching and individuals giving themselves titles that are not appropriate for them.
If a true NT Prophet like David Wilkerson preached to the NAR folk, or those in Kenneth Copeland's meeting, he would be accused of having a demon and forcibly ejected from the premises. The role of the NT Prophet is not a popular one among churches that have fallen from holiness and faithfulness to Christ. The role of the NT Prophet is to powerfully exhort the Christian church to toe the Gospel and holiness line. They are like John Bunyan's character in Pilgrims Progress: Mr Valiant for Truth, who carries a blood-stained sword. Jesus said He has not come to being peace on earth but a sword, and He does that through the ministry of the NT Prophet.
Congratulations Oscarr, you now understand the difference between the office and the gift. In other posts here you also now understand what constitutes prophesying in the body of Christ (edification, exhortation, and comfort).All I am doing is reflecting what Paul is actually saying about prophecy to the Corinthians. I am drawing a distinction between a believer prophesying in church, and a person performing the office of the Prophet. Therefore the prophecies of believers in church are totally different in nature to the ministry of Prophet. There are people who call themselves Prophets in our churches, who are not true NT Prophets, but are believers exercising the gift of prophecy. I think there is confusion about prophecy in church and the role of Prophet, through shonky teaching and individuals giving themselves titles that are not appropriate for them.
Nothing is lost in time with GOD. We can learn everything we need for any office or gift from The Holy Spirit, we just have to keep asking Him and waiting upon His answers..Therefore the Scripture fully supports the modern existence of apostles and prophets, and we have to pick the meat from the bones as we consider how the NAR people apply those ministries. The problem is that the First Century believers knew exactly how the Prophet ministry operated. Agabus certainly wasn't the only prophet operating in the NT churches. But the knowledge of how NT prophets exercised their ministry has been lost to time, and all modern proponents of the Prophet ministry have to guess on how it should work.
The office of Prophet is one that is in the style of John the Baptiser. He called the Jews to repentance. He was the last Prophet to Israel. But this doesn't mean that the NT Prophets who came after him were any different, except their role was to call the church to repentance, and their ministry was especially important in the face of emerging heresies that were coming into the church.Yes, I see what you are trying to do...
Prophets were meant to be part of church life weren't they?
Was Agabus in a separate fellowship?
In the OT Prophets fellowshipped together.
Being a Prophet is a Church office.
This is distinct from having a gift.
One matter that could help, would be to re-instate the office of prophet as an itinerant ministry, like the evangelist.
We are Pastor and teacher heavy - how about more fathers and prophets... (real ones that is...)
I have submitted a Word to my present church which has been welcomed and appreciated.
I was prayerfully meditating on the prophetic and was wondering what the difference between prophecy according to Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 14, and the office of Prophet as part of the five fold ministry. It is when I listened to a David Wilkerson message that it came clearly to me - he's a NT Prophet who is following in the steps of John the Baptiser, except that instead of calling the Jews to repentance, he is calling the church to repentance. Then I knew that the office of NT Prophet has not ceased, but has continued to this present day, but not in the way that the NAR describe it. The NAR "prophets" are pastoral prophets defined in 1 Corinthians 14, but they have gone into error by giving themselves the label of NT Prophets while not fulfilling the role of challenging the church over its sin and hypocrisy and calling for repentance.Congratulations Oscarr, you now understand the difference between the office and the gift. In other posts here you also now understand what constitutes prophesying in the body of Christ (edification, exhortation, and comfort).
I always thought I was trying to hammer on a brick wall with you whenever we would talk about this. It's good to see you understand it so clearly now.
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