What is our purpose in your religion?

[cloudyday2]

Well, I have not studied Zohar,
but Zohar and related literature are filled with references
to reincarnation, addressing such questions as which body is resurrected and what happens to those bodies that did not achieve completion through incarnation,

whether a husbaand and wife can reincarnate together,
if a delay in burial can affect reincarnation and if a soul can reincarnate into an animal.

I have not studied it because it is not advised to do so, not without a mentor at least.

there are those who have been driven crazy by it and some have even died.

I imagine the risk comes from meditating too intensely without working up to it gradually, and also desiring mystical results too intensely such that messages from God appear in your alphabet soup or your crossword puzzle (for example).

I went to a witchcraft / pagan forum several years ago, because I often wonder if I have experienced magic or paranormal in the past or if I have only had psychosis. As soon as I mentioned "psychosis", the forum members urged me to stay away from witchcraft due to risks for psychologically unstable people. I have never been interested in witchcraft except that sometimes I wonder if magic and paranormal is real and I assume that witches might have opinions on that question. I have a lot of memories that seem paranormal, and sometimes I want to know for certain what really happened, but probably I will just forget about those memories and not care eventually. LOL

 

[Noxot]

Well, Abraham sent his sons off to the East with presents,

they were misused, creating something much like Torah but it is advised to stay away
from those religions because they lead one astray.

I was just looking at that part of Genesis the other day. I'm sure the Hebrew makes more sense. But perhaps one way to think of that verse is that he sent the sons of his concubines in the direction that the Sun rises. Perhaps in Isaac there is a kind of fullness of the all and in the sons of the concubines it's more to do with individual Souls, with the each In the all. In my Christian view it would be the difference between the Son of God and each person.

 

[bling]

The purpose of Christianity is a different thing. The OP asks our purpose. I’m not convinced that Christianity defines one. It says we should love God and neighbor, but thats not quite defining why we exist or a single purpose for us.

I will address you but others can read.

Any organization has an objective which should be briefly addressed in a Mission Statement, but we do not find the words “Mission Statement” in scripture but we do find “The Greatest Commandments” which could be our Mission Statement, briefly summarized as:

“Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy.”

The initial objective would thus be to: “obtain this unique all consuming hugely powerful Godly type Love”, so you can Love God and others completely.

This messed up world which includes satan roaming around is not here for your pleasure, but to help you become like God Himself in that you have the unique, unbelievable Godly type Love (God himself is Love).

God has created beings to shower them with the greatest gifts possible, the greatest gift being having a Love like His.

If there is this Creator of the universe out there, His “creations” could not really “do” anything for Him, so this Creator would have to be seen as a Giver (Unselfish Lover) and not trying to “get” something from His creation.

Why would God have a totally unselfish type of Love, since He personally would not get anything out of it? If God’s “Love” is some kind of knee jerk reaction, then it is really meaningless (something like; gravity which is nice to have, but everyone automatically has it). God Loves us in spite of what we have done, who we are or what we will do, so it has to be by His choice.



God would create the right universe for the sake of the individuals that will accept His gift (the most powerful force [Love] in all universes, since that force [Love] compels even God to do all He does) and thus we become like He is (the greatest gift He could give).

What keeps the all-powerful Creator from just giving whatever He wants to his creation, eliminating the need for free will and this earthly time.

There are just something even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), like create another Christ, since Christ has always existed, the big impossibility for us is; create humans with instinctive Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type Love. This Love has to be the result of a free will moral choice with real alternatives (for humans those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)

This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or ever deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).

This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.

To address infant death, and how it helps some willing individuals in fulfilling their objective, you first have to realize, some individuals will never even have the opportunity to fulfill their earthly objective due to dying first. Knowing God’s Love we can imagine these individuals going to heaven without Godly type Love, but only have a wonderful child for wonderful parent type love. There will be a need to protect and preserve these individuals through eternity which those with Godly type Love would want to do, so there is a continuing need (purpose) in heaven for Christians.

Unfortunately, I, along with others, needed to see and know the brevity of life in order to respond sooner than later. Time is not on our side, since we do not get better, but worse. If everyone had at least 60 years, there would be no rush to repent and repenting does not get easier with time. We all tend to spiral down into the pigsty of life (like the prodigal son) and that does help if when we do come to our senses we turn to the Father, but that does not take 60 years.

I also want to be with my daughter and see her again, who passed away before she was one.

 

[Robban]

I imagine the risk comes from meditating too intensely without working up to it gradually, and also desiring mystical results too intensely such that messages from God appear in your alphabet soup or your crossword puzzle (for example).

I went to a witchcraft / pagan forum several years ago, because I often wonder if I have experienced magic or paranormal in the past or if I have only had psychosis. As soon as I mentioned "psychosis", the forum members urged me to stay away from witchcraft due to risks for psychologically unstable people. I have never been interested in witchcraft except that sometimes I wonder if magic and paranormal is real and I assume that witches might have opinions on that question. I have a lot of memories that seem paranormal, and sometimes I want to know for certain what really happened, but probably I will just forget about those memories and not care eventually. LOL

From "The Zohar's mysterious origins"
by Moshe Miller.

Study of the esotoric texts was restricted to those who were considered
worthy of it's knowledge, as is written:
"One may not expound.....the Work of Creation to more than one student (at a time); the Work of the Chariot not even to one student-unless he is wise and can understand these matters by himself".

The Gemarra goes on to list various other conditions and limitations to the transmission of this esotoric wisdom.

Serious stuff, for those who jump over the fence, so to speak,
it is a risky buisness, like touching a highvoltage cabel.

 

[Robban]

I was just looking at that part of Genesis the other day. I'm sure the Hebrew makes more sense. But perhaps one way to think of that verse is that he sent the sons of his concubines in the direction that the Sun rises. Perhaps in Isaac there is a kind of fullness of the all and in the sons of the concubines it's more to do with individual Souls, with the each In the all. In my Christian view it would be the difference between the Son of God and each person.

Abraham's Presents to the East-The Zohar.

A short clip.

The ancient children of the East were wise;
they inherited the wisdom that Abraham sent with the sons of his concubines,
as it is written:"Abraham gave gifts to the sons of his concubines and sent them Eastward to India, away from his son Isaac while he was still alive.

Over time they were drawn down many wrong paths by that wisdom.


That did not happen to the descendents of Isaac and the inheritors of Jacob,
as it is written:
"And Abraham gave all that he had to Isaac."

 

[Robban]

.

 

[Robban]

Was going to say re my late sister who's days were not many,
ten years later we had double up with twin sisters.

 

[ChetSinger]

There is infant mortality, childhood cancer, etc. Any religion that claims to know the purpose of our lives needs to address the fickleness of fate.

So what is our purpose in your religion?

As I understand Genesis, our original purpose was to be God's images here on earth, to continue his creative work. We were to develop our skills in the garden he planted and then use those skills to turn the earth into a garden planet.

 

[Arthra]

So how about the case of an infant dying before having any opportunity to fulfill that purpose?

The infant is not a vacuum... but also represents a human being in dire circumstances... (1) His mother for one who carried him for nine months.. Her love and care for the infant is a reality.
(2) Any medical staff are part of an opportunity to hone their skills.
(3) The soul of the infant is a spiritual being. In the Baha'i Faith the soul begins at conception and is associated with the body. On separation from the body the soul ascends to the spiritual world where it will rest in the arms of the Merciful One.

Miscarriages are also fairly common but in my belief the soul of the fetus ascends to the spiritual world.

 

[ChetSinger]

So how about the case of an infant dying before having any opportunity to fulfill that purpose?

Then imo that is a tragedy, albeit a temporary one. It happens because death came into the world, and that happened because of sin.

 

[bling]

So how about the case of an infant dying before having any opportunity to fulfill that purpose?

I addressed that in my post 83

 

[cloudyday2]

I addressed that in my post 83

thanks. I somehow missed it originally, sorry.

 

[dlamberth]

As I understand Genesis, our original purpose was to be God's images here on earth, to continue his creative work. We were to develop our skills in the garden he planted and then use those skills to turn the earth into a garden planet.

I've heard this image many times and have so much trouble with it. The assumption is that this Creation isn't already a garden. And that we can do better than God, which makes us think we are Gods. And thinking that we can do better than God has caused us to destroy the very garden that God created. And I have the hardest time believing that has anything to do with any religion. Well, I take that back. I think it has a lot to do with the religion of money and consumerism.

 

[cloudyday2]

My personal theory is that "the image of God" meant "with male and female features". Originally many Jews believed that God was a husband and wife team. That didn't necessarily mean that the Jews believed in two gods - possibly they believed in one god that had male and female perspectives. Marriage was important, because it united male and female just as male and female were united in God.
"And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them."
Genesis creation narrative - Wikipedia

Here is something I found in Wikipedia speculating about the meaning of "the image of God":

Man was created in the "image of God". The meaning of this is unclear: suggestions include:

1. Having the spiritual qualities of God such as intellect, will, etc.;
2. Having the physical form of God;
3. A combination of these two;
4. Being God's counterpart on Earth and able to enter into a relationship with him;
5. Being God's representative or viceroy on Earth.

Genesis creation narrative - Wikipedia

 

[hedrick]

I've heard this image many times and have so much trouble with it. The assumption is that this Creation isn't already a garden. And that we can do better than God, which makes us think we are Gods. And thinking that we can do better than God has caused us to destroy the very garden that God created. And I have the hardest time believing that has anything to do with any religion. Well, I take that back. I think it has a lot to do with the religion of money and consumerism.

The earth may be a garden already, but if so, it’s one where we've allowed a lot of weeds to come up, and have thrown a lot of trash into it. I suspect ChetSinger was thinking that there’s a fair amount of gardening needed.

I would agree that acting as gardener was a purpose you can get from Gen 2, as being his image in Gen 1 contains an implied purpose.

But I think Jesus gave us a related though slightly different purpose: to act as his agent is establishing the Kingdom. This includes spreading his Gospel of God's love and forgiveness, and reconciling people in his name to God and each other. Paul says as much in passages like 2 Cor 5:11-21.

 

[hedrick]

As to the relationship between being his image, and male and female, I think these are separate things. Being his image comes before any mention of male and female, and at least in English translation, I read Gen 1:27 as making in his image and male and female as separate statements. To my knowledge, when this was written, no one would have thought that there were separate male and female Gods. The OT vision is sufficiently patriarchal that I don't think it's even likely that would have said that God combined both, though later people did.

There are interesting traditional interpretations. Some Christians, for example, thought that the original humans were one gender, "male and female" being understood as all humans having both male and female characteristics.

 

[Noxot]

I think a general purpose is to make something out of what little we have. This world seems to be hard mode. I don't see it as a garden or Paradise only but rather as a mixture of Heaven and Hell. There is no denying the beauty of the world but it won't let you forget its ugliness either.

 

[ChetSinger]

I've heard this image many times and have so much trouble with it. The assumption is that this Creation isn't already a garden. And that we can do better than God, which makes us think we are Gods. And thinking that we can do better than God has caused us to destroy the very garden that God created. And I have the hardest time believing that has anything to do with any religion. Well, I take that back. I think it has a lot to do with the religion of money and consumerism.

It's common enough even among Christians to believe that before the Fall the entire earth was a garden.

But Genesis 2 doesn't say that. It says that God planted a garden "in Eden, in the east". That is, the garden had a location. And if the garden had a location then the entire earth wasn't a garden.

Genesis 1 describes God bringing order and beauty out of chaos. And our original purpose, as his earthly images, was to continue the work he began and to extend the beauty of his garden across the planet.

As I see it that purpose has nothing to do with consumerism or the destruction of natural resources, but with extending the borders of God's beautiful garden.

 

[klutedavid]

There is infant mortality, childhood cancer, etc. Any religion that claims to know the purpose of our lives needs to address the fickleness of fate.

So what is our purpose in your religion?

Who said that fate was fickle?

I do not accept that claim.

Everyone including you just get's old and dies. The fate is the same for everyone, rich and poor, smart and dumb, winners and losers, no exception to this rule.

There is no purpose to life other than getting older everyday.

I found but one revelation and that of the risen Christ, that offers freedom from death. That's all I really care about now.

 

[cloudyday2]

Who said that fate was fickle?

I do not accept that claim.

Everyone including you just get's old and dies. The fate is the same for everyone, rich and poor, smart and dumb, winners and losers, no exception to this rule.

There is no purpose to life other than getting older everyday.

I found but one revelation and that of the risen Christ, that offers freedom from death. That's all I really care about now.

What's the purpose of life after death then?