What is our purpose in your religion?

[ByAnyOtherName]

I see that our purpose is to know God, to love Him, obey His commandments, to love our neighbors and to be of service to them in honor of Him.

"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 'Master, which is the great commandment in the law?'
Jesus said unto him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.'" (Matthew 22:35-40)

 

[FireDragon76]

The purpose of Christianity is the spiritual growth, maturity, and ultimate perfection of the individual.

If that is the purpose, I can think of better ways to get there than hte religion I see.

 

[FireDragon76]

How much freedom does infant mortality provide for the infant?

In fairness, from the Christian point of view, things like physical death aren't of ultimate significance. It's possible to see a child that dies young as being fortunate in some way, from that perspective, because to live in the world, from the Christian perspective, is to be gradually corrupted by sin.

 

[Noxot]

There is infant mortality, childhood cancer, etc. Any religion that claims to know the purpose of our lives needs to address the fickleness of fate.

So what is our purpose in your religion?

Swedenborg says that life goes on after death. I'm pretty certain that one of the first things we do after we die is finish up all the human stuff in general that we didn't fulfill or do enough. So there is even room for people to be parents of aborted children and Etc.

 

[Arthra]

There is infant mortality, childhood cancer, etc. Any religion that claims to know the purpose of our lives needs to address the fickleness of fate. So what is our purpose in your religion?

From the Baha'i Writings:

The true follower is led “to sincerity of intent, to high purpose, to purity and spotless honor, to surpassing kindness and compassion, to the keeping of their covenants when they have covenanted, to concern for the rights of others, to liberality, to justice in every aspect of life, to humanity and philanthropy, to valor and to unflagging efforts in the service of mankind.”5

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Secret of Divine Civilization ↩

See more at
The Purpose of Religion | What Bahá’ís Believe

 

[cloudyday2]

From the Baha'i Writings:

The true follower is led “to sincerity of intent, to high purpose, to purity and spotless honor, to surpassing kindness and compassion, to the keeping of their covenants when they have covenanted, to concern for the rights of others, to liberality, to justice in every aspect of life, to humanity and philanthropy, to valor and to unflagging efforts in the service of mankind.”5

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Secret of Divine Civilization ↩

See more at
The Purpose of Religion | What Bahá’ís Believe

So how about the case of an infant dying before having any opportunity to fulfill that purpose?

 

[Robban]

So how about the case of an infant dying before having any opportunity to fulfill that purpose?

Never stop wondering, when we think we know it all that is when wonder dies.

A couple of years after being saved from a bomb night we had a sister born,
her days were not many.

We have a body that functions from birth to death and a soul that was there before
and contiues after.

I stand in wonder and awe.

 

[cloudyday2]

Never stop wondering, when we think we know it all that is when wonder dies.

A couple of years after being saved from a bomb night we had a sister born,
her days were not many.

We have a body that functions from birth to death and a soul that was there before
and contiues after.

I stand in wonder and awe.

Sorry to hear about your sister.

I had a sibling who died before being born. I wasn't aware of it at the time, because it happened very early in my mother's pregnancy, but she told me about it a few years ago.

I had an interesting dream about a year ago where I was sitting at my desk at this hopeless family business and a woman in her late 30s walked in and said "hi" as if she knew me and had just arrived from the airport to visit me. I didn't know who she was, but her face reminded me of various family members mixed together. She offered to help with the office work which I thought was nice considering she was probably tired from the trip but it gave me a little hope ... and that was the end of the dream - not very exciting. LOL

I was thinking afterwards that this person in my dream was about the age to be my sibling who was never born. I guess if a soul exists before and after this life then maybe they can come to visit. Who knows.

 

[Robban]

Sorry to hear about your sister.

I had a sibling who died before being born. I wasn't aware of it at the time, because it happened very early in my mother's pregnancy, but she told me about it a few years ago.

I had an interesting dream about a year ago where I was sitting at my desk at this hopeless family business and a woman in her late 30s walked in and said "hi" as if she knew me and had just arrived from the airport to visit me. I didn't know who she was, but her face reminded me of various family members mixed together. She offered to help with the office work which I thought was nice considering she was probably tired from the trip but it gave me a little hope ... and that was the end of the dream - not very exciting. LOL

I was thinking afterwards that this person in my dream was about the age to be my sibling who was never born. I guess if a soul exists before and after this life then maybe they can come to visit. Who knows.

That was interesting.
Here is a piece of Zohar, (Zohar 2, 99b)

"All souls are subject to reincarnation;
and people do not know the ways of the Holy One, blessed be He!

They do not know that they are brought before tribunal both before they enter into this world and after they leave it;

they are ignorant of the many reincarnations and secret works which they have to undergo,
and of the number of naked souls, and how many naked spirits roam about in the other world without being able to enter within the veil of the King's Palace.

Men do not know how the souls revolve like a stone that is thrown from a sling.

But the time is at hand when these mysteries will be disclosed."

 

[Robban]

That was interesting.
Here is a piece of Zohar, (Zohar 2, 99b)

"All souls are subject to reincarnation;
and people do not know the ways of the Holy One, blessed be He!

They do not know that they are brought before tribunal both before they enter into this world and after they leave it;

they are ignorant of the many reincarnations and secret works which they have to undergo,
and of the number of naked souls, and how many naked spirits roam about in the other world without being able to enter within the veil of the King's Palace.

Men do not know how the souls revolve like a stone that is thrown from a sling.

But the time is at hand when these mysteries will be disclosed."

What was the reason for fifth ecumenical council of 553 came to this verdict?

"Anyone asserting the belief in the preexistence of souls (reincarnation)

would anathema.

Anathema=cursed, damned, excommunicated.

 

[cloudyday2]

What was the reason for fifth ecumenical council of 553 came to this verdict?

"Anyone asserting the belief in the preexistence of souls (reincarnation)

would anathema.

Anathema=cursed, damned, excommunicated.

That's a good question. I suspect that the purpose of life under Christianity must be incompatible with reincarnation, but I don't know.

Bart Ehrman wrote a book about the afterlife in Christianity that might address this, but I haven't read it. I tried googling, but there isn't very much reputable-looking information.

 

[Robban]

That's a good question. I suspect that the purpose of life under Christianity must be incompatible with reincarnation, but I don't know.

Bart Ehrman wrote a book about the afterlife in Christianity that might address this, but I haven't read it. I tried googling, but there isn't very much reputable-looking information.

Origenes once influential lost a lot of his reputation
when he started to teach about the preexistence of souls.

Times change but men not so much.

Having power over others,

setting up conditions claiming to have the truth yet
putting on the brakes.

The fact that reincarnation is part of Jewish tradition
comes as a surprise to many.

Even some of the greatest authorities who are not
necessarily known for their mystical bent assume reincarnation to be an accepted basic tenet.

 

[cloudyday2]

Origenes once influential lost a lot of his reputation
when he started to teach about the preexistence of souls.

Times change but men not so much.

Having power over others,

setting up conditions claiming to have the truth yet
putting on the brakes.

The fact that reincarnation is part of Jewish tradition
comes as a surprise to many.

Even some of the greatest authorities who are not
necessarily known for their mystical bent assume reincarnation to be an accepted basic tenet.

In "The Resurrection", Geza Vermes says that belief in a bodily resurrection was distinctly Jewish. The alternative belief that the soul departed the body at death was Greek.

It seems to me that reincarnation makes a bodily resurrection awkward, because a soul inhabits many bodies and must choose only one for a bodily resurrection.

Josephus apparently said that the Pharisees believed in reincarnation for good Jews and suffering in Sheol for bad Jews. But many Jews believed in a bodily resurrection too.

It's confusing to me.

 

[Robban]

In "The Resurrection", Geza Vermes says that belief in a bodily resurrection was distinctly Jewish. The alternative belief that the soul departed the body at death was Greek.

It seems to me that reincarnation makes a bodily resurrection awkward, because a soul inhabits many bodies and must choose only one for a bodily resurrection.

Josephus apparently said that the Pharisees believed in reincarnation for good Jews and suffering in Sheol for bad Jews. But many Jews believed in a bodily resurrection too.

It's confusing to me.

Resurrection and reincarnation are not the same.

The Bahir, attributed to the first century sage,
Nechuniah ben Hakanah, used reincarnation to address the classic question of theodicy--why bad things happen to good people and vice versa.

From Bahir 195;

Why is there a righteous person to whom good things happen, while another righteous person has bad things happen to him?

This is because the latter righteous person did bad in a previous life, and is now experiencing the consequencies?
What is this like?

A person planted a vineyard and hoped to grow grapes,
but instead, sour grapes grew.
He saw that his planting and harvest were not successful so he tore it out.

He cleaned out the sour grape vines and planted again.

When he saw that his planting was not successful,
he tore it up and planted again.

Resurrection is the reunification of the soul with the former body(newly reconstituted) into the "World To Come" a world history has not witnessed yet.

Resurrecion is thus a time for reward,
reincarnation a time of repairing,

Resurrection is a time of reaping,
reincarnation a time of sowing.

 

[Robban]

Resurrection and reincarnation are not the same.

The Bahir, attributed to the first century sage,
Nechuniah ben Hakanah, used reincarnation to address the classic question of theodicy--why bad things happen to good people and vice versa.

From Bahir 195;

Why is there a righteous person to whom good things happen, while another righteous person has bad things happen to him?

This is because the latter righteous person did bad in a previous life, and is now experiencing the consequencies?
What is this like?

A person planted a vineyard and hoped to grow grapes,
but instead, sour grapes grew.
He saw that his planting and harvest were not successful so he tore it out.

He cleaned out the sour grape vines and planted again.

When he saw that his planting was not successful,
he tore it up and planted again.

Resurrection is the reunification of the soul with the former body(newly reconstituted) into the "World To Come" a world history has not witnessed yet.

Resurrecion is thus a time for reward,
reincarnation a time of repairing,

Resurrection is a time of reaping,
reincarnation a time of sowing.

To judge fairly the soul and the body have to be reunited.

There was once a man who owned an orchard,
he noticed that a lot of fruit was being taken,

he asked around if anyone knew anything about it,
no one knew anything.

Then asked a man who was crippled and could not walk.
"Do you know anything about the missing fruit?"

"No, it has nothing to do with me, I am crippled and cannot walk."

So he came to a blind man and asked him the same.

The blind man replied;
"No, it has nothing to do with me, I am blind and cannot see."

The orchard owner thought for a moment and said;
"But if you who is blind were to carry the one who is crippled on your shoulders, he could direct you while he picked the fruit"

Therefore the soul has to be reunited with the body before judgement, so that they do not blame eachother.

A story

 

[cloudyday2]

To judge fairly the soul and the body have to be reunited.

There was once a man who owned an orchard,
he noticed that a lot of fruit was being taken,

he asked around if anyone knew anything about it,
no one knew anything.

Then asked a man who was crippled and could not walk.
"Do you know anything about the missing fruit?"

"No, it has nothing to do with me, I am crippled and cannot walk."

So he came to a blind man and asked him the same.

The blind man replied;
"No, it has nothing to do with me, I am blind and cannot see."

The orchard owner thought for a moment and said;
"But if you who is blind were to carry the one who is crippled on your shoulders, he could direct you while he picked the fruit"

Therefore the soul has to be reunited with the body before judgement, so that they do not blame eachother.

A story

It seems that reincarnation changes the story. Instead of one blind man, there are 10 blind men. So the crippled man must ride on the shoulders of 10 blind men. It begins to look like a circus act, but it does make it easier to get the fruit from the highest branches.

So when a Jew is resurrected after 10 reincarnations will he/she get to choose a favorite body or is it the most recent body?

Also do male Jews reincarnate as female Jews, and do Jews reincarnate as Gentiles?

How about reincarnation as non-humans? For example maybe Balaam was reincarnated as a donkey so he could learn to be nicer to animals.

 

[Noxot]

I was reading Matthew 22:31-32 Mark 12:26-27 Luke 20:37-38 so I'm sure there was diverse beliefs. One thing certain is that we continue to exist because God exist. It's interesting that some jews have a belief similar to Hinduism. I always found it interesting that Adam and atman are so similar sounding as well as Abraham and Brahman.

 

[Robban]

It seems that reincarnation changes the story. Instead of one blind man, there are 10 blind men. So the crippled man must ride on the shoulders of 10 blind men. It begins to look like a circus act, but it does make it easier to get the fruit from the highest branches.

So when a Jew is resurrected after 10 reincarnations will he/she get to choose a favorite body or is it the most recent body?

Also do male Jews reincarnate as female Jews, and do Jews reincarnate as Gentiles?

How about reincarnation as non-humans? For example maybe Balaam was reincarnated as a donkey so he could learn to be nicer to animals.

Well, I have not studied Zohar,
but Zohar and related literature are filled with references
to reincarnation, addressing such questions as which body is resurrected and what happens to those bodies that did not achieve completion through incarnation,

whether a husbaand and wife can reincarnate together,
if a delay in burial can affect reincarnation and if a soul can reincarnate into an animal.

I have not studied it because it is not advised to do so, not without a mentor at least.

there are those who have been driven crazy by it and some have even died.

 

[Robban]

I was reading Matthew 22:31-32 Mark 12:26-27 Luke 20:37-38 so I'm sure there was diverse beliefs. One thing certain is that we continue to exist because God exist. It's interesting that some jews have a belief similar to Hinduism. I always found it interesting that Adam and atman are so similar sounding as well as Abraham and Brahman.

Well, Abraham sent his sons off to the East with presents,

they were misused, creating something much like Torah but it is advised to stay away
from those religions because they lead one astray.

 

[cloudyday2]

I was reading Matthew 22:31-32 Mark 12:26-27 Luke 20:37-38 so I'm sure there was diverse beliefs. One thing certain is that we continue to exist because God exist. It's interesting that some jews have a belief similar to Hinduism. I always found it interesting that Adam and atman are so similar sounding as well as Abraham and Brahman.

Another similarity that comes to mind is the elaborate rules for sacrifice in ancient Judaism and ancient Hinduism. In ancient Hinduism a wealthy person would hire a priest to perform a sacrifice and it would take many hours. Not only were the words used in the ritual sacred, but those words were sung and each note had to be perfect for the sacrifice to be acceptable.

There was trade between ancient India and ancient Mesopotamia, and there were probably merchant colonies in both regions spreading religious ideas.

Another thing I have wondered about is the "axial age" beginning in the 6th century BCE where Greece, Mesopotamia, and India all introduced monotheism into their religious beliefs. That is also when many scholars believe the Torah was compiled from earlier sources and monotheism became stricter in Judaism.