What is obedience to the gospel?

[Hammster]

Obeying the Resurrection of Jesus Christ:

"...that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:4).

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Romans 6:5).

I can’t find anywhere in these verses where it says that we are to obey the resurrection.

 

[Hammster]

No. I am looking for more of a commentary. Post the verses that I quoted, and then offer your own commentary to what they say. At least a partial commentary or something. My point here is that the verses have to line up with what you are saying so as to show the superiority of your interpretation over mine.

So you just want to make unchallenged statements.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So you just want to make unchallenged statements.

Not at all. I want the discussion to be fair. I want to know what you believe on Romans 6 says. I have no idea what you think Galatians 5:24 says, etc. I also updated my recent post with a Side Note on "grievous sin," as well.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I can’t find anywhere in these verses where it says that we are to obey the resurrection.

It says we should walk in newness of life.

"...that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:4).​

This is then related to the resurrection.

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Romans 6:5).​

Not sure how you cannot see that in these verses.


Side Note:

If these verses do not mean what they say, then what do you make of them?

 

[Hammster]

I already addressed the issue of "grievous sin" in Romans 6. Unless you can prove that Paul did not refer to sins that did not condemn in other parts of the book of Romans and or his other letters, your point is moot. Grievous sin was clearly condemned in the verse I brought forth in Genesis. Are you saying that Paul did not condemn certain sins? If so, whey do you think he was not referring to sins that do not condemn in Romans 6?

All sins condemn. That’s my point. There’s no need to say otherwise unless you think there are some sins that don’t condemn, and if that’s the case, there are possibly people out there whom Christ didn’t die for.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

All sins condemn. That’s my point.

I need a chapter and verse that this is the case for a believer who has already accepted Jesus as their Savior.

There’s no need to say otherwise unless you think there are some sins that don’t condemn, and if that’s the case, there are possibly people out there whom Christ didn’t die for.

1 John 1:9 would not make any sense if future sin was forgiven you. For it says that if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. How can we be forgiven of sin and or cleansed of all unrighteousness by confessing sin if all future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

As for minor transgressions or faults:

Minor infractions or faults of character is another name for a "sin not unto death" (i.e. not unto death = not unto spiritual death or the second death) (Note: While the "sin not unto death" mentioned in 1 John 5:16 is in context to confessed sin in John's epistle (See: 1 John 1:9), it can be extended loosely to refer to the kind of sins that do not lead to spiritual death by it's very name).

"Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults."
(Psalms 19:12).​

Examples of Sins That Do Not Lead Unto Spiritual Death:

#1. 1 John 5:16-17 mentions the "sin not unto death."
In context to 1 John 5: This would be talking about confessed grievous sin (like lying, lusting, or hating, etc.) that one is striving to overcome with the Lord's help (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 13:14). In 1 John 5, the brethren are praying for this believer to have victory (life) over their sin as this believer confesses their sin.

#2. Psalms 19:12 says, "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults." I believe these would be faults of character or minor errors that a person might make with people. Example: A person may not be a great listener, and they do not allow others to speak like they should. By not listening to others may come off a little like they do not care (even though they care in their own way or a different way). Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit warned Paul not to go. He was still determined to go because he loved His fellow Jews and wanted them to know the love of Jesus. The Spirit told the brethren that Paul will be imprisoned by his going to Jerusalem. The brethren warned Paul not to go. They were in tears and loved him and begged him not to go. But Paul did not listen. He would not hear them. He did not want to hear it. Fault of character. Hidden fault. Minor error of his character. It is not something that condemned him (See Acts of the Apostles 21, and read this article here by Ray Stedman; Note: There is even a better write up than this one by Bible commentator James Boice here; Please keep in mind I do not share their views on Soteriology, though; I merely agree with their view on what happened with Paul in Acts of the Apostles 21).

#3. The Command to Be Baptized.
Paul says Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). If it was essential to salvation, then why would Paul say something like this? In 1 Peter 3:21: Peter says baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. If you were to turn to 2 Corinthians 7:1, you would see that it uses similar wording ("filthiness of the flesh") that is clearly in reference to sin. So Peter is saying that baptism is not for the putting away of "sin" [i.e. filth of the flesh]. In other words, baptism is not a command that if disobeyed, leads to spiritual death.

#4. Other Commands in the New Testament that do not seem like a major violation of loving God and loving your neighbor that have no death penalties attached to them. One example would be the command to Rejoice when men persecute you or falsely accuse you of evil in Matthew 5:11-12.

Real world examples: Going 5 miles per hour over the speed limit in area that is not life threatening to others. Not taking out the trash yesterday when it was a little stinky. These minor transgressions would obviously not send a Christian to hell.

But we as Christians strive to obey and do good in all things in the Lord. We strive to keep His commandments. For it is written,

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.' (1 John 5:3).

 

[Hammster]

Anyways, here’s my commentary on Romans 6:1-6

I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (Galatians 2:20, NASB)

 

[Hammster]

I need a chapter and verse that this is the case for a believer who has already accepted Jesus as their Savior.

No sin condemns a believer.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. - Romans 8:1

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Anyways, here’s my commentary on Romans 6:1-6

I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (Galatians 2:20, NASB)

That's not really a commentary in your own words. There could be several different ways you can interpret Galatians 2:20.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No sin condemns a believer.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. - Romans 8:1

Okay, first, Romans 8:1 does not say, "no sin condemns a believer."

Neither does Romans 8:1 say anything about how even minor transgressions or faults of character can condemn a believer after they are saved by God's grace.

Second, Romans 8:1 actually says in it's entirety, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Romans 8:13 confirms this even more.

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).

So if a person lives one way (according to the flesh or sin), they are going to die, but if they put to death the deeds of the body (sin), they will live. For there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh (sin), but who walk after the Spirit.

So believers have to walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh (or sin) in order to not be under the Condemnation.

 

[Hammster]

That's not really a commentary in your own words. There could be several different ways you can interpret Galatians 2:20.

Okay, the good I do isn’t me, it’s Christ I’m me.

 

[Hammster]

Romans 8:1 mentions nothing about how even minor transgressions or faults of character can condemn a believer after they are saved by God's grace

It doesn’t need to sins all sin condemns outside of Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Okay, the good I do isn’t me, it’s Christ I’m me.

I also believe that Christ does the good work in me. But Christ does not do good works on our behalf with the life that He lived. The blood of Jesus only cleanses us of all sin if we walk in the light as He is in the light (See 1 John 1:7). Christ's sacrifice redeems past sin via faith. His resurrection makes it possible for the body of Christ to one day live again in His Kingdom (Thereby conquering sin and death once and for all). For the wages of sin is death.

Please take note that 1 John 5:17 says there is a sin not unto death.

Anyways, Galatians 2:20 is talking about Christ living in us and Him doing the good works through us under the New Covenant. Galatians 2:21 is driving the point home that we are not saved by Law Alone (by the Old Law) without God's grace via faith in Christ.

Paul is referring to "Circumcision Salvationism."

"But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:" (Galatians 2:3).

This means Paul is not referring to the necessity of works of faith that follow God's grace via the Sanctification process by God working in us.

For Paul says that we can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It doesn’t need to sins all sin condemns outside of Christ.

Again, the verse doesn't say that.
1 John 5:17 says there is a sin not unto death.
So this means that not all sins lead to death or condemn.

 

[Hammster]

Paul is referring to "Circumcision Salvationism."

A cursory reading of Galatians will show this to be incorrect. That’s not why he chastised Peter.

 

[Hammster]

Again, the verse doesn't say that.
1 John 5:17 says there is a sin not unto death.
So this means that not all sins lead to death or condemn.

So then you do believe that there are some sins Christ didn’t need to die for.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A cursory reading of Galatians will show this to be incorrect. That’s not why he chastised Peter.

Well, I am not going to take your word for it. You have to prove your case with the Bible that this is so. For me: It is obvious that Paul is referring to the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism. This was a problem even at the Jerusalem Counsel (See Acts of the Apostles 15).

 

[Hammster]

Well, I am not going to take your word for it. You have to prove your case with the Bible that this is so. For me: It is obvious that Paul is referring to the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism. This was a problem even at the Jerusalem Counsel (See Acts of the Apostles 15).

Just read the book as whole and don’t try to find proof texts. That should clear it up.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So then you do believe that there are some sins Christ didn’t need to die for.

The only sins Christ did not die for were the sins of those who will worship the beast in the future (See Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8).

Jesus died for all sins on a corporate or world wide level so as to offer man the free gift of salvation, but individual forgiveness is not applied unto a person receives Jesus as their Savior and they believe in His death and resurrection for salvation, and they continue to remain faithful to Him.

 

[Hammster]

The only sins Christ did not die for were the sins of those who will worship the beast in the future (See Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8).

Jesus died for all sins on a corporate level so as to offer man the free gift of salvation, but individual forgiveness is not applied unto a person receives Jesus as their Savior and they believe in His death and resurrection for salvation, and they continue to remain faithful to Him.

Why would He need to die for minor sins?