What is "Non-denominational"?

[~InHisHands~]

denominations = social groups

Why do you say that?

 

[wmc1982]

denominations = social groups

 

[J4Jesus]

The non-denominational ones do not? I believe the gifts are very much for us today. I possess two that I am aware of. Considering the life I have had I do not understand why I have the two that I have but, nonetheless, I have them.

Some non denominational ones now do not believe in the gifts.
Thats good you do. In 1 Corinthians 12 it lists the gifts and then says

1 Cor. 12: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

He created you for a purpose and has a great plan for you. So He knew the best gifts to give you.Thats the way He made you

 

[~InHisHands~]

Interesting.

 

[PastorJoey]

Nothing is gained by tearing down a straw-man.
Also, my post was not intended as an attack but more as a description.

If your not intending to attack, then what kind of comment is this?

 

[kenrapoza]

If your not intending to attack, then what kind of comment is this?

I'm not sure what you mean. My straw-man comment was about fairly representing another position, not an attack. Is this what you were asking?

 

[PastorJoey]

I'm not sure what you mean. My straw-man comment was about fairly representing another position, not an attack. Is this what you were asking?

Please forgive me, but if you are saying that you are fairly representing the WOF beliefs by relating them to straw men which are easily torn down, that my friend is an attack and an unfair & uneducated supposition.

 

[kenrapoza]

Please forgive me, but if you are saying that you are fairly representing the WOF beliefs by relating them to straw men which are easily torn down, that my friend is an attack and an unfair & uneducated supposition.

Ummm...no that's not what I said. I was not referring to WOF as some type of straw-man. I was saying that in general we should represent each other fairly, and if we don’t then we are merely creating straw-man arguments and nothing good is gained by that. I assume you know what I mean by a straw-man argument? Perhaps that is where the confusion is coming in…

 

[PastorJoey]

Ummm...no that's not what I said. I was not referring to WOF as some type of straw-man. I was saying that in general we should represent each other fairly, and if we don’t then we are merely creating straw-man arguments and nothing good is gained by that. I assume you know what I mean by a straw-man argument? Perhaps that is where the confusion is coming in…

My apologies to you then. I obviously misunderstood you. If that is your point then I agree and I believe also that you have presented WOF doctrines to the best of your knowledge.

 

[msbojingles]

ok now, you two kiss and make up! J/K

group hug!

 

[kenrapoza]

My apologies to you then. I obviously misunderstood you. If that is your point then I agree and I believe also that you have presented WOF doctrines to the best of your knowledge.

No harm done! Sometimes internet communication can be ambiguous.

 

[PastorJoey]

Word of Faith (sometimes just Word-Faith) is an extremely controversial movement within charismatic and pentecostal Christianity.

This is true but then so was the ministry of Jesus or any one who ever accomplished anything great for God regardless of spiritual background.

The basic idea is that physical health and prosperity are God's plan for His people

Very true, it is Gods will even more so than the will of any earthly father who wishes for their children to prosper and be in health.

and if we as Christians are not blessed in that way then we are lacking faith in God.

This is sometimes the case, but many times there are other issues involved, one being lack of knowledge of Gods will. P.S. No true WOF minister has used the term "lack of faith" in a demeaning way towards others. All of us lack faith in areas of our lives and there is always more room to grow.

It is also known as the "health and wealth" or "name it and claim it" or "Prosperity" Gospel.

Would you want to go to a sick and broke church? It amazes me that an accusation used against us is that we encourage biblical health and wealth for all . They also began to call believers "Christians" first in Antioch because they acted and talked like Jesus Christ. This was first used as a critical derogatory term.

So what the teaching comes down to is that Faith is a force and Words are the containers of that force (hence the Word of Faith name)

That faith is "a force" is not held by all WOFers. I do believe that it could be understood as a force simply because it is forceful and powerful in the life of one who has it.

and I can affect my reality through having enough faith and speaking these blessings into existence.

This is true understanding though that it would be impossible to believe God for something that He has not promised to us in His word. Confession of faith is nothing more than simply saying what God has said in His Word about the situation or circumstance. Faith does not deny the problems exist, faith denies their right to exist in our lives based on God promise.

There are also some other controversial (heretical) doctrines that are commonly taught in the Word of Faith circles:

1.) Healing - Although this is common in other charismatic circles as well, Word-Faith teachers hold that physical healing was included in Christ's atonement. Sickness is due to sin, lack of faith, and satanic attacks.

True. It is spelled out in red ink. All one has to do is read the gospels through to see it.

2.) Believers are 'little gods' - This is a direct quote from Kenneth Hagin (often considered to be the father of the movement): "God made us in the same class of being that He is Himself" and by being born again the believer becomes "as much an incarnation as Jesus of Nazareth".

First of all Jesus was the one who first said we were [g]ods, not Bro. Hagin. And all he means by "little gods" is that it is spelled with a "small g" not a "captial G". We were created in Gods image and likeness meaning we were created in "the God class". No we are not "Diety beings" as Mormons teach. We are "small g" gods only in the sense that God has given man the rule and dominion of the earth and created in His image and likeness.

"Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods"? (John 10:32-34)
We are to be gods only in the same sense that Adam and eve were gods of the earth before sin entered.

3.) Prosperity - Already mentioned

Abraham was rich and we are "Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise". "Christ was made a curse for us that the blessing of Abraham might come upon us". Gal. 3:13, 29

4.) Faith and Confession - or "Positive Confession" this is the doctrine that because God created the universe through the spoken word, believers also have a similar ability to alter their circumstances (faith is a force and words are the containers of that force...)

Already addressed afore.

5.) Jesus died spiritually - Word of Faith teaches that Jesus actually had to suffer in Hell to complete the atonement and there be born again himself

Many WOFers believe this, but certainly not all, just as there are different beliefs in any other christian group or denomination. When you understand what the term spiritual death means it is easier to understand and if one still doesnt agree thay wouldnt find it heretical.
The belief that Jesus died spiritually simply means that for a time He was separate from the presence of God and never means to cease from existing.

It's pretty obvious why this movement has caused such a controversy.

I agree. It is pretty obvious when only the surface is presented at best.

Noted Word of Faith preachers are Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Rod Parsley, Jesse Duplantis, Creflo Dollar and others. The Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) is one of it's biggest promoters. Probably the most outspoken critic of the movement has been Hank Hanegraaff, president of the Christian Research Institute.

Rod Parsley & Benny Hinn really arent considered to be WOF. I do however appreciate their ministries. [Rod Parsley may be WOF. I could be wrong about him].

Sorry for the long-winded explanation. I just wanted to be thorough. I bet that it also may cause some controversy

...

No controversy here, just bringing a little clarity and answering the OP "What is a non- denominational church".
Pastor J

 

[J4Jesus]

Word of Faith (sometimes just Word-Faith) is an extremely controversial movement within charismatic and pentecostal Christianity. The basic idea is that physical health and prosperity are God's plan for His people and if we as Christians are not blessed in that way then we are lacking faith in God.

There are also some other controversial (heretical) doctrines that are commonly taught in the Word of Faith circles:

Hello kenrapoza

First I want to say thank you for showing respect . I appreciate that. I have been nondenominational for most of my life now and altho the churches I have belonged to and know very well hold to Word of Faith teachings, some of the things stated on your posts do not really represent these beliefs. I'm not angry or anything, see I'm smiling .

I wouldnt even mention it but since it was brought up, I feel it neccesary to clarify some things. I just want to say I assume your entire post was copied from some websites and was not your own words. Since there are many kinds of nondenominational churches and vary in beliefs we know everyone is not going to believe everything the same. So some beliefs may seem contraversial. The people liked Jesus but to the religious leaders He was very contraversial in His ways.

Regarding your statement above, I respectfully disagree that 'controversial' means 'heretical'. You wouldnt have to look very far to find someone online who did not believe like your own denomination, and they would be very demeaning in their speech about you, using derogatory words or phrases (which misrepresents you) , attacking your beliefs viciously, including calling you a heretic and false prophet or teacher. All the heresy hunter sites are like this. Most of the time they have been misinformed or have not understood. Different groups interpret things differently. But its very sad when they resort to this kind of thing about anyone's beliefs or denomination.

To hear only a part of what a person says, could be interpreted just about any way someone would want.This can cause many misunderstandings. It does not ususally give the full meaning or explanation of what they are teaching and needs to be studied further.

In all these years I have never heard our leaders say a person did not have enough faith if they are not blessed physically , materially and financially. We do have faith, but do we act on it? James says faith without corresponding actions is dead (James 2: 17- 20). And there are many hinderances to recieving from God. We have an enemy that comes against us in every way he can and does not want us blessed in any way.

2.) Believers are 'little gods' - This is a direct quote from Kenneth Hagin (often considered to be the father of the movement): "God made us in the same class of being that He is Himself" and by being born again the believer becomes "as much an incarnation as Jesus of Nazareth".-------

Let me put it this way. If your father was Italian you'd be Italian. If a cat has babies they are cats.
We are Children of God, He is our Father. That's the family we are in -God's family. But we are NOT God.
When He created Adam and Eve He gave them dominion to rule over the things of the earth.They lost it when they followed satan and disobeyed God. But when Jesus came He gave us that authority back.(Gen 1:26)

5.) Jesus died spiritually - Word of Faith teaches that Jesus actually had to suffer in Hell to complete the atonement and there be born again himself

When Jesus said "My God My God why have you forsaken me?" He was separted from God at that time (spiritual death). I have never heard anyone say He had to be "born again". Since we have all sinned we are all on our way to hell unless someone pays the price for us. Jesus did. (Ephesians 4:9-10)


Thanks for letting me make this clarification. And God bless you. OK ,carry on..... I am out of here....