What IS MATT 16:18 REALLY TEACHING ?

[One God and Father of All]

The information provided within the bible that is.

I'm pointing that out because based on comments I've seen, it seems some Catholics think the bible is being worshiped as an object. As if the book is placed on an alter and people get on their knees and pray to it

That’s because they venerate their sacred tradition

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Thanks for nothing lol.

Okay, I'll play along and break it down for you.

What they deny is that Christ is the head of the church on earth. ​

Except that Catholics do not deny that the Lord is head of the Church on Earth. So, this part is wrong because it just is not the truth. ​

​

They claim that the Pope is the head of the church on earth. ​

The pope is the vicar of Christ on Earth, now what does that mean you might ask? It means that the pope acts as Christ's representative in earthly affairs, like an ambassador acts in the place of his nation's leadership, but he does so without becoming the leadership of his nation. And when matters are of great seriousness, they are referred back to the leaders directly (or if not directly then through the ambassador).​

​

Therefore, while you are on earth the Pope is your head and not Christ.​

While the faithful are on Earth they are Christ's people, and he is always the head of the Church. Yet he does have ministers here on Earth and they act as his agents for the service of the body of Christ on Earth.​

​

Every church on the earth has its own forms for governance and its own leaders - yet they all will claim that Jesus Christ is the head of their church. Even your own would make a claim like this.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

There have been some fairly corrupt Popes over the years.

Like there was one traitorous among the twelve apostles chosen by the Lord Jesus? <sardonic commentary>I hope that doesn't tarnish Jesus' reputation as Lord of all and head of the Church. It would be such a pity had his "mistake" with Judas besmirched his perfection. </sardonic commentary>

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Maybe it's incorrect, but that, at least in my understanding is how most people (maybe Protestants) see Catholicism. Focusing on Mary and the Pope.

Please, I beg you in the bowls of Christ, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church [ Catechism of the Catholic Church ]; see for yourself what Catholics focus upon.

I. The life of man - to know and love God​

​

1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.​

​

2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."4 Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."5​

​

3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.6​

​

---

4 Mt 28:19-20​

5 Mk 16:20​

6 Cf. Acts 2:42​

 

[One God and Father of All]

.

Okay, I'll play along and break it down for you.

What they deny is that Christ is the head of the church on earth. ​

Except that Catholics do not deny that the Lord is head of the Church on Earth. So, this part is wrong because it just is not the truth. ​

​

They claim that the Pope is the head of the church on earth. ​

The pope is the vicar of Christ on Earth, now what does that mean you might ask? It means that the pope acts as Christ's representative in earthly affairs, like an ambassador acts in the place of his nation's leadership, but he does so without becoming the leadership of his nation. And when matters are of great seriousness, they are referred back to the leaders directly (or if not directly then through the ambassador).​

​

Therefore, while you are on earth the Pope is your head and not Christ.​

While the faithful are on Earth they are Christ's people, and he is always the head of the Church. Yet he does have ministers here on Earth and they act as his agents for the service of the body of Christ on Earth.​

​

Every church on the earth has its own forms for governance and its own leaders - yet they all will claim that Jesus Christ is the head of their church. Even your own would make a claim like this.

If you affirm Christ to be head of the body why is the Pope called head of the body? The church is the body of Christ.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Nope, it's a matter of perception based on what they see being presented by the RCC.

I make the same appeal to you that I did to @Bones49

Please, I beg you in the bowls of Christ, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church [ Catechism of the Catholic Church ]; see for yourself what Catholics focus upon.

I. The life of man - to know and love God​

1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.​

2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."4 Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."5​

3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.6​

---

4 Mt 28:19-20​

5 Mk 16:20​

6 Cf. Acts 2:42​

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I don't think so.

The first pope (in the RCC exclusive head of the church sense) was Pope Leo I, in 440. Before that it was a term used of Bishops generally - we do know that Pope mean father.

Peter was never referred to as 'Pope', or 'Father' in the bible. In the RCC sense it is not apporproate to consider that a 'Pope' existed, at least before Constantine, when the church became the state religion. If someone was called a 'Pope' before that, the context must be considered to be very different, if for no other reason than that the church structure completely changed when Christianity changed from being a persecuted minority, to being a favoured majority.

If you will not believe what the Church says of herself then what is the point of discussing the matter with you? You will not receive what I say and will insist that your spin is better and truer. So, I'll leave you to your own devices on this matter. I Love the Lord Jesus Christ more than to make a mockery of him with useless debates that are conducted with at least one side working for a predetermined end that is not correct.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

If you affirm Christ to be head of the body why is the Pope called head of the body? The church is the body of Christ.

This will be a long reply ...

---

Paragraph 2. THE CHURCH - PEOPLE OF GOD, BODY OF CHRIST, TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

I. THE CHURCH - PEOPLE OF GOD

781 "At all times and in every race, anyone who fears God and does what is right has been acceptable to him. He has, however, willed to make men holy and save them, not as individuals without any bond or link between them, but rather to make them into a people who might acknowledge him and serve him in holiness. He therefore chose the Israelite race to be his own people and established a covenant with it. He gradually instructed this people.... All these things, however, happened as a preparation for and figure of that new and perfect covenant which was to be ratified in Christ . . . the New Covenant in his blood; he called together a race made up of Jews and Gentiles which would be one, not according to the flesh, but in the Spirit."201

Characteristics of the People of Got

782 The People of God is marked by characteristics that clearly distinguish it from all other religious, ethnic, political, or cultural groups found in history:
- It is the People of God: God is not the property of any one people. But he acquired a people for himself from those who previously were not a people: "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation."202
- One becomes a member of this people not by a physical birth, but by being "born anew," a birth "of water and the Spirit,"203 that is, by faith in Christ, and Baptism.
- This People has for its Head Jesus the Christ (the anointed, the Messiah). Because the same anointing, the Holy Spirit, flows from the head into the body, this is "the messianic people."
- "The status of this people is that of the dignity and freedom of the sons of God, in whose hearts the Holy Spirit dwells as in a temple."
- "Its law is the new commandment to love as Christ loved us."204 This is the "new" law of the Holy Spirit.205
- Its mission is to be salt of the earth and light of the world.206 This people is "a most sure seed of unity, hope, and salvation for the whole human race."
-Its destiny, finally, "is the Kingdom of God which has been begun by God himself on earth and which must be further extended until it has been brought to perfection by him at the end of time."207

A priestly, prophetic, and royal people

783 Jesus Christ is the one whom the Father anointed with the Holy Spirit and established as priest, prophet, and king. the whole People of God participates in these three offices of Christ and bears the responsibilities for mission and service that flow from them.208

784 On entering the People of God through faith and Baptism, one receives a share in this people's unique, priestly vocation: "Christ the Lord, high priest taken from among men, has made this new people 'a kingdom of priests to God, his Father.' the baptized, by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood."209

785 "The holy People of God shares also in Christ's prophetic office," above all in the supernatural sense of faith that belongs to the whole People, lay and clergy, when it "unfailingly adheres to this faith . . . once for all delivered to the saints,"210 and when it deepens its understanding and becomes Christ's witness in the midst of this world.

786 Finally, the People of God shares in the royal office of Christ. He exercises his kingship by drawing all men to himself through his death and Resurrection.211 Christ, King and Lord of the universe, made himself the servant of all, for he came "not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."212 For the Christian, "to reign is to serve him," particularly when serving "the poor and the suffering, in whom the Church recognizes the image of her poor and suffering founder."213 The People of God fulfills its royal dignity by a life in keeping with its vocation to serve with Christ.

The sign of the cross makes kings of all those reborn in Christ and the anointing of the Holy Spirit consecrates them as priests, so that, apart from the particular service of our ministry, all spiritual and rational Christians are recognized as members of this royal race and sharers in Christ's priestly office. What, indeed, is as royal for a soul as to govern the body in obedience to God? and what is as priestly as to dedicate a pure conscience to the Lord and to offer the spotless offerings of devotion on the altar of the heart?214

II. THE CHURCH - BODY OF CHRIST

The Church is communion with Jesus

787 From the beginning, Jesus associated his disciples with his own life, revealed the mystery of the Kingdom to them, and gave them a share in his mission, joy, and sufferings.215 Jesus spoke of a still more intimate communion between him and those who would follow him: "Abide in me, and I in you.... I am the vine, you are the branches."216 and he proclaimed a mysterious and real communion between his own body and ours: "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him."217

788 When his visible presence was taken from them, Jesus did not leave his disciples orphans. He promised to remain with them until the end of time; he sent them his Spirit.218 As a result communion with Jesus has become, in a way, more intense: "By communicating his Spirit, Christ mystically constitutes as his body those brothers of his who are called together from every nation."219

789 The comparison of the Church with the body casts light on the intimate bond between Christ and his Church. Not only is she gathered around him; she is united in him, in his body. Three aspects of the Church as the Body of Christ are to be more specifically noted: the unity of all her members with each other as a result of their union with Christ; Christ as head of the Body; and the Church as bride of Christ.

"One Body"

790 Believers who respond to God's word and become members of Christ's Body, become intimately united with him: "In that body the life of Christ is communicated to those who believe, and who, through the sacraments, are united in a hidden and real way to Christ in his Passion and glorification."220 This is especially true of Baptism, which unites us to Christ's death and Resurrection, and the Eucharist, by which "really sharing in the body of the Lord, . . . we are taken up into communion with him and with one another."221

791 The body's unity does not do away with the diversity of its members: "In the building up of Christ's Body there is engaged a diversity of members and functions. There is only one Spirit who, according to his own richness and the needs of the ministries, gives his different gifts for the welfare of the Church."222 The unity of the Mystical Body produces and stimulates charity among the faithful: "From this it follows that if one member suffers anything, all the members suffer with him, and if one member is honored, all the members together rejoice."223 Finally, the unity of the Mystical Body triumphs over all human divisions: "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."224

"Christ is the Head of this Body"

792 Christ "is the head of the body, the Church."225 He is the principle of creation and redemption. Raised to the Father's glory, "in everything he (is) preeminent,"226 especially in the Church, through whom he extends his reign over all things.

793 Christ unites us with his Passover: all his members must strive to resemble him, "until Christ be formed" in them.227 "For this reason we . . . are taken up into the mysteries of his life, . . . associated with his sufferings as the body with its head, suffering with him, that with him we may be glorified."228

794 Christ provides for our growth: to make us grow toward him, our head,229 he provides in his Body, the Church, the gifts and assistance by which we help one another along the way of salvation.

795 Christ and his Church thus together make up the "whole Christ" (Christus totus). the Church is one with Christ. the saints are acutely aware of this unity:

Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God's grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man.... the fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does "head and members" mean? Christ and the Church.230

Our redeemer has shown himself to be one person with the holy Church whom he has taken to himself.231

Head and members form as it were one and the same mystical person.232

A reply of St. Joan of Arc to her judges sums up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer: "About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they're just one thing, and we shouldn't complicate the matter."233

The Church is the Bride of Christ

796 The unity of Christ and the Church, head and members of one Body, also implies the distinction of the two within a personal relationship. This aspect is often expressed by the image of bridegroom and bride. the theme of Christ as Bridegroom of the Church was prepared for by the prophets and announced by John the Baptist.234 The Lord referred to himself as the "bridegroom."235 The Apostle speaks of the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride "betrothed" to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him.236 The Church is the spotless bride of the spotless Lamb.237 "Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her."238 He has joined her with himself in an everlasting covenant and never stops caring for her as for his own body:239

This is the whole Christ, head and body, one formed from many . . . whether the head or members speak, it is Christ who speaks. He speaks in his role as the head (ex persona capitis) and in his role as body (ex persona corporis). What does this mean? "The two will become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the Church."240 and the Lord himself says in the Gospel: "So they are no longer two, but one flesh."241 They are, in fact, two different persons, yet they are one in the conjugal union, . . . as head, he calls himself the bridegroom, as body, he calls himself "bride."242

III. THE CHURCH IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

797 "What the soul is to the human body, the Holy Spirit is to the Body of Christ, which is the Church."243 "To this Spirit of Christ, as an invisible principle, is to be ascribed the fact that all the parts of the body are joined one with the other and with their exalted head; for the whole Spirit of Christ is in the head, the whole Spirit is in the body, and the whole Spirit is in each of the members."244 The Holy Spirit makes the Church "the temple of the living God":245

Indeed, it is to the Church herself that the "Gift of God" has been entrusted.... In it is in her that communion with Christ has been deposited, that is to say: the Holy Spirit, the pledge of incorruptibility, the strengthening of our faith and the ladder of our ascent to God.... For where the Church is, there also is God's Spirit; where God's Spirit is, there is the Church and every grace.246

798 The Holy Spirit is "the principle of every vital and truly saving action in each part of the Body."247 He works in many ways to build up the whole Body in charity:248 by God's Word "which is able to build you up";249 by Baptism, through which he forms Christ's Body;250 by the sacraments, which give growth and healing to Christ's members; by "the grace of the apostles, which holds first place among his gifts";251 by the virtues, which make us act according to what is good; finally, by the many special graces (called "charisms"), by which he makes the faithful "fit and ready to undertake various tasks and offices for the renewal and building up of the Church."252

Charisms

799 Whether extraordinary or simple and humble, charisms are graces of the Holy Spirit which directly or indirectly benefit the Church, ordered as they are to her building up, to the good of men, and to the needs of the world.

800 Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit, that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms.253

801 It is in this sense that discernment of charisms is always necessary. No charism is exempt from being referred and submitted to the Church's shepherds. "Their office (is) not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to what is good,"254 so that all the diverse and complementary charisms work together "for the common good."255

IN BRIEF

802 Christ Jesus "gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own" (Titus 2:14).

803 "You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people" (1 Pet 2:9).

804 One enters into the People of God by faith and Baptism. "All men are called to belong to the new People of God" (LG 13), so that, in Christ, "men may form one family and one People of God" (AG 1).

805 The Church is the Body of Christ. Through the Spirit and his action in the sacraments, above all the Eucharist, Christ, who once was dead and is now risen, establishes the community of believers as his own Body.

806 In the unity of this Body, there is a diversity of members and functions. All members are linked to one another, especially to those who are suffering, to the poor and persecuted.

807 The Church is this Body of which Christ is the head: she lives from him, in him, and for him; he lives with her and in her.

808 The Church is the Bride of Christ: he loved her and handed himself over for her. He has purified her by his blood and made her the fruitful mother of all God's children.

809 The Church is the Temple of the Holy Spirit. the Spirit is the soul, as it were, of the Mystical Body, the source of its life, of its unity in diversity, and of the riches of its gifts and charisms.

810 "Hence the universal Church is seen to be 'a people brought into unity from the unity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit'" (LG 4 citing St. Cyprian, De Dom. orat. 23: PL 4, 553).




201 LG 9; Cf. Acts 10:35; 1 Cor 11:25.
202 1 Pet 2:9.
203 Jn 3:3-5.
204 Cf. Jn 13 34
205 Rom 8:2; Gal 5:25.
206 Cf. Mt 5:13-16.
207 LG 9 # 2.
208 Cf. John Paul II, RH 18-21.
209 LG 10; Cf. Heb 5:1-5; Rev 1:6.
210 LG 12; Cf. Jude 3.
211 Cf. Jn 12:32.
212 Mt 20:28.
213 LG 8; Cf. 36.
214 St. Leo the Great, Sermo 4, 1: PL 54, 149.
215 Cf. Mk 1:16-20; 3:13-19; Mt 13:10-17; Lk 10:17-20; 22:28-30.
216 Jn 15:4-5.
217 Jn 6:56.
218 Cf. Jn 14:18; 20:22; Mt 28:20; Acts 2:33.
219 LG 7.
220 LG 7.
221 LG 7; cf. Rom 6:4-5; 1 Cor 12:13.
222 LG 7 # 3.
223 LG 7 # 3; cf. 1 Cor 12:26.
224 Gal 3:27-28.
225 Col 1:18.
226 Col 1:18.
227 Gal 4:19.
228 LG 7 # 4; cf. Phil 3:21; Rom 8:17.
229 Cf. Col 2:19; Eph 4:11-16.
230 St. Augustine, In Jo. ev, 21, 8: PL 35, 1568.
231 Pope St. Gregory the Great Moralia in Job, praef., 14: PL 75, 525A.
232 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh III, 48, 2.
233 Acts of the Trial of Joan of Arc.
234 Jn 3:29.
235 Mk 2:19.
236 Cf. Mt 22:1-14; 25:1-13; 1 Cor 6:15-17; 2 Cor 11:2.
237 Cf. Rev 22:17; Eph 1:4. 5:27.
238 Eph 5:25-26.
239 Cf. Eph 5:29.
240 Eph 5:31-32.
241 Mt 19:6.
242 St. Augustine, En. in Ps. 74:4: PL 36, 948-949.
243 St. Augustine, Sermo 267, 4: PL 38, 1231D.
244 Pius XII, encyclical, Mystici Corporis: DS 3808.
245 2 Cor 6:16; cf. 1 Cor 3:16-17; Eph 2:21.
246 St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 3, 24, 1: PG 7/1, 966.
247 Pius XII, encyclical, Mystici Corporis: DS 3808.
248 Cf. Eph 4:16.
249 Acts 20:32.
250 Cf. 1 Cor 12:13.
251 LG 7 # 2.
252 LG 12 # 2; cf. AA 3.
253 Cf. 1 Cor 13.
254 LG 12; cf. 30; 1 Thess 5:12, 19-21; John Paul II, Christifideles Laici, 24.
255 1 Cor 12:7.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

One could argue that

But one does not.

 

[ozso]

I make the same appeal to you that I did to @Bones49

Please, I beg you in the bowls of Christ, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church [ Catechism of the Catholic Church ]; see for yourself what Catholics focus upon.

I. The life of man - to know and love God​

1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.​

2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."4 Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."5​

3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.6​

---

4 Mt 28:19-20​

5 Mk 16:20​

6 Cf. Acts 2:42​

There's what the Catechism says, and then there's what people observe and perceive.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

There's what the Catechism says, and then there's what people observe and perceive.

And least of all in the scales of truth is what those opposed to the Catholic Church, untruthfully say of the Catholic Church and her people.

 

[One God and Father of All]

I make the same appeal to you that I did to @Bones49

Please, I beg you in the bowls of Christ, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church [ Catechism of the Catholic Church ]; see for yourself what Catholics focus upon.

I. The life of man - to know and love God​

1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.​

2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."4 Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."5​

3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.6​

---

4 Mt 28:19-20​

5 Mk 16:20​

6 Cf. Acts 2:42​

“Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors.”

IOW, the gospel (the Good News) received by the apostles has been faithfully guarded by their successors.

How have the successors faithfully guarded the gospel.? does it mean they have faithfully guarded the scripture which is able to make one wise unto salvation? Or have they faithfully guarded the only true interpretation of the scripture which can save man?

 

[ozso]

And least of all in the scales of truth is what those opposed to the Catholic Church, untruthfully say of the Catholic Church and her people.

I think a lot of the time that's based on what they observe coming from Catholicism.

For example Catholics are always having to deny they worship Mary, because it thoroughly appears that they worship Mary.

 

[Valletta]

Oh well then, that excuses corrupt popes.

The claim of the RCC is the Pope is supposed to be on the same level as St. Peter.

The current pope has the same job as the first pope if that's what you mean by "level." But Popes can go to heaven or hell.

 

[One God and Father of All]

The Catholic Church seems to think there was revelation outside of the Scripture by which they only hold. And without this ”special” revelation one cannot know the whole “purity of truth”.
Like they can’t know Peter was the first Pope and made head of the body or that Mary is to be worshipped and that she was an immaculate conception. And others things they teach which the scripture does not.

 

[Valletta]

God created Adam who disobeyed Him. God chose David (a man after God's own heart) as King and David committed adultery topped with murder. These are the kinds of arguments I usually hear from atheists. It's not that the Apostles were perfect. But they were not corrupt. They did not practice unrighteousness.

A lot of people would disagree with you about Judas. Do you consider Judas as being righteous?

 

[Valletta]

I would wholeheartedly disagree. The Catholic Church has for its head a Pope. The Christian church has for its head Christ.
You can’t be called a Christian church if Christ is not the head. It’s that simple.

Please do not misrepresent Catholicism with such a false accusation. As I've stated, Jesus is the head of the Catholic Church.

 

[RandyPNW]

Dispensationally, Peter's status rose and fell with the nation of Israel in God's eyes.

Early Acts, Israel was still the favored nation in God's eyes, hence his name was prominent.

By the time Stephen was stoned, Israel started diminishing, his status likewise.

At Acts 15, James, the brother of Jesus, came out of nowhere to become the head of the Jerusalem church, and it was James, not Peter, that made the final decision at the council. Peter was relegated to a supporting cast.

He was never mentioned by name again after Acts 15.

By the time Paul visited Jerusalem for the final time in Acts 21, Peter was nowhere to be found, it was only "James and the elders".

I don't quite see it that way. James, the brother of Jesus, would obviously hold a top position in the Jerusalem church. He certainly knew Jesus better than anyone (in the earthly sense). And he came from a good family.

Peter was just sort of the most prominent among the 12, and wrote a couple of memorable letters that happened to become Scripture. That is not a man who ever fades!

Paul viewed James, Jesus' brother, Peter, and John as all equally important among the apostles. In fact all the apostles were important, according to Jesus. Some, however, were a little closer to Jesus and better as representatives of them all.

Israel has never faded from God's memory, but certainly faded as a nation after Jesus' death, and after the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. I don't think this had a thing to do with Peter, who was called to begin in Jerusalem and then reach out to the nations. I've heard he died in Rome.

None of this has a thing to do with the RCC. Taking Peter as the beginning of a supposed hierarchy controlling the universal Church is the product of Catholic leaders wishing to read back into history to obtain authority that nobody could question. Doesn't work for me, and I don't believe it works for God.

 

[Valletta]

I think a lot of the time that's based on what they observe coming from Catholicism.

For example Catholics are always having to deny they worship Mary, because it thoroughly appears that they worship Mary.

It would be more accurate to say Catholics are constantly accused of all kinds of things, not being Christians, claiming the pope is God, worshiping Mary, etc. and sometimes Catholic speak up in defense. Many of the time of Jesus on earth accused Jesus of sinning against God.

Matthew 10: 22 and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

 

[Valletta]

Yikes. Perhaps it's worse than I thought. I remember when John Paul II was shot, Catholics were saying it was "like shooting God".

You knew a lot of Catholics back then? While there's a whole Catholic Catechism online presenting Catholic teaching for all to criticize or try and refute if they can, it seems like the attacks most often come from what this Catholic or that Catholic supposedly said or did.