What is MAD?

[christianmomof3]

I keep seeing it referred to on here. What is MAD?

 

[JMWHALEN]

I keep seeing it referred to on here. What is MAD?

________---
1. It refers to a movie made in the 60's, starring every actor that ever lived, or

2. It refers to a magazine, whose most notable character, Alred E. Neuman, speaks a line that should be in every believer's heart: "What, me worry?", or

3.It is an acronym for "Mothers Against Drunk Driving", or

4. It refers to the state of mind of the poster who uses it continuously,or

5. All of the above, or

6. All but 3 of the above(?), or

7. None of the above, or

"Pay no attention to the poster that wrote this post. If any of this post is captured and read, the Secretary will disavow any of the poster's actions. 'Good luck'(which does not exist, since the LORD God is in control; but everyone says it), Jim."

 

[Tractor1]

I keep seeing it referred to on here. What is MAD?

The acronym is being used in reference to mid-acts dispensationalists who hold to a minority view within dispensationalism.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[eph3Nine]

The acronym is being used in reference to mid-acts dispensationalists who hold to a minority view within dispensationalism.

In Christ,
Tracey

It may be a minority in YOUR opinion but God plus even ONE equals a MAJORITY...so I wouldnt put too much stock in that portion of your definition.

 

[thereselittleflower]

It may be a minority in YOUR opinion but God plus even ONE equals a MAJORITY...so I wouldnt put too much stock in that portion of your definition.

Oh for goodness sakes . . . . There is no such definition as God plus even one = majoirty.

I don't know if you understand what the word "majority" means, and using it out of context to reply in such a manner is logically fallacious.



christianmomof3, MAD is a very extreme form of dispenaitonalism which "mainstream" dispensationalists reject.

It preaches 2 gospels, not one. As someone who was dispensationalist for 30+ years, it is, IMHO, a very dangerous and error ridden abberation of Christ's teachings and the teachings of the Apostles.



Peace

 

[eph3Nine]

Excuse me???? God PLUS even ONE does equal a MAJORITY!

The point that you seem to have missed is that numbers don't translate into RIGHT as far as God is concerned. Scripture bears this out. There were never huge groups of folks who believed, but always a remnant. Nothing has changed today. Many who call themselves beleivers have bought into "satans plan of evil" which negates the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY which was kept secret since the world began"

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Tractor1 is correct, Mid-Acts is a minority view within dispensationalism.

As for majority, Scripture defines it as we normally would:

Acts 27:12 Since the harbor was unsuitable to winter in, the majority decided that we should sail on, hoping to reach Phoenix and winter there. This was a harbor in Crete, facing both southwest and northwest.


LDG

 

[SH89]

So what exactly is mid-acts dispenaitonalism? What does the doctrine state?

 

[holdon]

Tractor1 is correct, Mid-Acts is a minority view within dispensationalism.

As for majority, Scripture defines it as we normally would:

Acts 27:12 Since the harbor was unsuitable to winter in, the majority decided that we should sail on, hoping to reach Phoenix and winter there. This was a harbor in Crete, facing both southwest and northwest.


LDG

And that majority was wrong.... as it is so often.

I don't care if dispensationalism is a minority or a majority. Is it true? that's what I care about and I think that classic dispensationalism is true.

It is far removed from hype and MAD stuff.

 

[billwald]

Probably that the Church began with and was not in existance before Paul's conversion.

 

[eph3Nine]

So what exactly is mid-acts dispenaitonalism? What does the doctrine state?

You can read any and all of the threads on this first page with the word MYSTERY in it...and it will give you an idea as to what mid acts dispensationalists believe.

Basically it has to to with the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATiON OF THE MYSTERY which was KEPT SECRET since the world began"

This body of truth called the REVELATION Of the MYSTERY contains fourteen doctrines found NOWHERE else in the Bible but in the epistles of Paul. ONE of those is the FORMATION of the Body of Christ.

If you would like a full explanation of what the Bible teaches and what we believe about PAULINE authority and the dispensation of GRACE , I can send you a book entitled "God had a SECRET"...which explains it all with accompanying scripture. I found right division thru reading "THINGS THAT DIFFER" by CR STAM.

After belonging to a mainstream church and denomination for over twenty five years and SEEING the discrepencies in the myriad of denominations, I read this and was SHOCKED that I hadnt seen it sooner. I am an educated person, a Bible College Grad and NO ONE had ever shown me this material right out of my bible!

It is worth looking into, and quite frankly, is the ONLY way that the Bible has actually made sense and come together for me and many others.

 

[JMWHALEN]

"extreme form of dispenaitonalism which 'mainstream' dispensationalists reject."

"very dangerous"

"a minority view within dispensationalism."
_______________________________________________________________________________

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun." Ecclessiastes 1:9

1. To the Christ-rejecting world, Christianity is considered extreme, very dangerous, and is a minority "religion"(I use this in the generic sense of the word, since Christianity is the opposite of religion).

2. Paul was considered to be the leader of what we call a "cult" today(sect):

For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:..." Acts 24:5

"But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against." Acts 28:2


3. Popularity determining truth? Gamaliel said much the same in Acts 5:34-39:

"And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." 5:38,39

That is, popularity determines the truth. He was wrong then, and is wrong now....Popularity determines truth?Tell that to:

Noah-Mocked by the "majority" for following God's charge to him: Only 7 people werw saved by the God through Noah. And yet Noah is called "...a preacher of righteousness...." in 2 Peter 2:5(this should be an encouragement to those who feel they are the only one preaching the gospel of the grace of God.)

Joseph-all his brothers opposed him

King Saul - The "majority" wanted a king, against God and Samuel's counsel

David- took on a giant

Elijah- outnumbered 450 to one(1 Kings 18:22)

Gideon-Had only 300 men(31,700 eliminated -Judges 6-7)

Moses - The Hebrews constantly complained to Moses, some withstood him, and the majority rebelled against him.

Stephen - The "majority" stoned him.

Paul- "...all men forsook me...."(2 Tim. 4:16).

The Lord Jesus Christ-No commentary is needed here.

Again, by this argument, Christianity is false, since most of this "...present evil world..."(Galatians 1:4) rejects the LORD God, as revealed in the Holy Bible, and His Christ, the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul knew of the coming apostasy, as most rejected the mystery the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ revealed to him by revelation from heaven. Most reject Christianity, which is defined in Romans-Philemon, as written by Paul, who communicated the Lord Jesus Christ's very words-most rejected Paul then, and nothing has changed today:



And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me." Colossians 4:11

"For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia. Only Luke is with me ....At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge." 2 Timothy 4:10,11,16
____________________________________________________________
from:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/3717/


To summarize, opinions differ widely among Dispensationalists as to when the church actually began, so we often distinguish ourselves from other dispensationalists, who hold to a different starting point for the church. The most common method for doing so is to label ourselves according to the chapter of the book of Acts in which we believe the modern church (the body of Christ) began:

1. "Traditional" Dispensationalists: Christians who believe the body of Christ began some time between the birth of Christ and Acts chapter 2 (on the day of Pentecost) are generally referred to as Traditional Dispensationalists, among whom there are also several subcategories. Acts 2 Dispensationalists, for example, believe the church started in Acts chapter 2, on the Day of Pentecost. The Baptist, Methodist, and Pentecostal organizations all contain Traditional Dispensational churches.

2. Mid Acts Dispensationalists: Christians who believe the body of Christ did not begin until Paul was saved are referred to as Mid Acts Dispensationalists. Since Paul was saved in Acts chapter 9 (considered to be the Mid Acts Period), and his first recorded sermon is in Acts chapter 13 (which is still in the Mid Acts period), these brethren may differ among themselves as to exactly when the body of Christ began (some believe it began in Acts chapter 9; some believe it began in Acts chapter 11; some believe it began in Acts chapter 13). However, Mid Acts Dispensationalists generally believe that Paul was the first member of the body of Christ. As a result, they associate the present body of Christ with the dispensation of grace which was given to the apostle Paul (Eph.3:2; Col.1:25).

So Mid Acts Dispensationalists, in general, also teach that the body of Christ could not have been in existence before this dispensation of grace began (although this is not a required belief). Men such Charles F. Baker and C. R. Stam are examples of Mid Acts Dispensationalists.

3. Acts 28 Dispensationalists: Christians who believe the present church did not begin until after Paul wrote his Acts epistles (Romans, 1&2 Corinthians, Galatians, and 1&2 Thessalonians) are referred to as Acts 28 Dispensationalists. Like most Mid Acts Dispensationalists, the Acts 28 Dispensationalists also believe that Paul was the first member of the body of Christ. Consequently, Acts 28 Dispensationalists will also associate the present body of Christ with the dispensation of grace, which was given to the apostle Paul (Eph.3:2; Col.1:25).

However, not only do the Acts 28 Dispensationalists teach that the body of Christ could not have existed before Paul was saved; they also believe that much of Paul's early doctrine (which is found in his Acts epistles) is different from the later doctrine found in his Prison epistles (Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians). Consequently, these brethren also believe that Paul's early doctrine was different from the doctrine contained in his Pastoral epistles (1&2 Timothy, Titus, and Philemon).

Like the Mid Acts Dispensationalists, then, the Acts 28 Dispensationalists also believe the body of Christ could not have begun before the present dispensation of grace. The Acts 28 dispensationalists, though, believe Paul was a minister of the New Covenant during the Acts period, when he wrote his epistles to the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, and Thessalonians. Based upon this belief, they teach that those Gentiles who believed during the Acts period stand to receive the New Covenant promises of Israel, when she comes into her own inheritance.

Plus, Acts 28 Dispensationalists also teach that the heavenly inheritance of the present church was not revealed until after Paul wrote his Acts epistles. Based upon this teaching, they believe that once the Acts period ended, anyone who believed Paul's revelation stood to receive a heavenly inheritance, even if they were saved during the Acts dispensation. They base this teaching upon their belief that one's calling dictates one's inheritance. Men such as E. W. Bullinger (famous for his Companion Bible) and Charles H. Welch are examples of Acts 28 Dispensationalists..............................


In Christ,
John M. Whalen

 

[christianmomof3]

Hmm, interesting. So, MAD believes that the church began with Paul?
I believe that Paul was the first one to see the Body of Christ, and describe it in the Bible, but it did not begin with him - how could he have seen it if it did not start until he was part of it?
Anyway, I am sure that I won't change anyone's mind who believes that.
As for all the posts with the capital letters about the BIG SECRET MYSTERY - and the God had a SECRET book - well - the whole BIG SECRET stuff sounds wrong to me. If there is something you want to say then spit it out and explain it in your own words. I don't want someone's BIG SECRET MYSTERY book - especially because it is so SECRET. That just sends up red flags with me that there must be something wrong if you can't just state it plain and clear. I do not mean to be rude and no offense intended. It may be a good book, but I will not send off for it if you can't tell what the BIG SECRET is.
We all have the Bible and Paul is not the only writer in it. I appreciate Paul, and I also appreciate Moses and John and David and Matthew and all of the other 40 + writers of the holy scriptures.
I love that Paul had a vision of the church and that he shared that vision with us. May we all see the vision and give everything for the church, which is the Body of Christ, the One who fills all in all.

 

[JMWHALEN]

Hmm, interesting. So, MAD believes that the church began with Paul?
I believe that Paul was the first one to see the Body of Christ, and describe it in the Bible, but it did not begin with him - how could he have seen it if it did not start until he was part of it?
Anyway, I am sure that I won't change anyone's mind who believes that.
As for all the posts with the capital letters about the BIG SECRET MYSTERY - and the God had a SECRET book - well - the whole BIG SECRET stuff sounds wrong to me. If there is something you want to say then spit it out and explain it in your own words. I don't want someone's BIG SECRET MYSTERY book - especially because it is so SECRET. That just sends up red flags with me that there must be something wrong if you can't just state it plain and clear. I do not mean to be rude and no offense intended. It may be a good book, but I will not send off for it if you can't tell what the BIG SECRET is.
We all have the Bible and Paul is not the only writer in it. I appreciate Paul, and I also appreciate Moses and John and David and Matthew and all of the other 40 + writers of the holy scriptures.
I love that Paul had a vision of the church and that he shared that vision with us. May we all see the vision and give everything for the church, which is the Body of Christ, the One who fills all in all.

__________-
christianmomof3,

Perhaps this will provide a beginning of understanding the "big picture":

http://www.suncoastbible.org/understanding_the_bible.htm

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

 

[christianmomof3]

__________-
christianmomof3,

Perhaps this will provide a beginning of understanding the "big picture":

http://www.suncoastbible.org/understanding_the_bible.htm

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

Thank you - that is interesting and informative. I skimmed it and will have to take more time to look at it more closely in the future. But it looks like I don't fit into that plan anyway because it says that Paul is the apostle for the gentiles and I am not a gentile. I am a Jew. But, by the grace of God, I am a born again Christian. So, where do I fit into that "program"?
I actually think that the entire Bible is about Christ and the Church and that it is all written for and to all of us.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Chrsitianmomof3, God has one plan for all of us . . The Church is not an interlude in God's plan . . it is the culmination of God's plan for His people on earth.

Two plans means Two Gospels, and Paul warned against those who preach another gospel. . .



Peace

 

[JMWHALEN]

Chrsitianmomof3, God has one plan for all of us . . The Church is not an interlude in God's plan . . it is the culmination of God's plan for His people on earth.

Two plans means Two Gospels, and Paul warned against those who preach another gospel. . .



Peace

___________
As asked again and again: please show us that the gospel of the kingdom is equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4-/"the gospel of the kingdom="the gospel" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4=the Lord Jesus Christ preached "I am going to die for your sins...be buried..be raised again for your justification", and that "the 12" preached this pre-cross.

Let's go.

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

 

[QuantaCura]

The gnostics were, and are, really big on SECRETS. . . . .

That was my first thought too--this sounds heavily Gnostic.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

That was my first thought too--this sounds heavily Gnostic.

It is.
The secret was so hidden -according to M.A.D., that not even Jesus Christ knew it or preached it! -in their own words!

Their hidden, secret, new gospel replaces the Gospel which Jesus Christ came preaching -so they say! and no one is to obey Jesus Christ's commands -so they say, for Paul was the "last prophet", so they say!

But Jesus said the Law and the prophets were "until John", since then the kingdom is preached and every man [every "in Adam" person] presses in".

Jesus said to His disciples, in John 14, that; "in My Father's house are many dwelling places, I go to prepare you a place" and if I go, I will come again and receive you to myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

But M.A.D. says Jesus is wrong, that Jesus' disciples and Apostles will not be with Him in His Father's House, but will be relegated to earth and will not ascend into heaven to be with Him there!!!!!

M.A.D. teaches that all before Paul will be relegated to earth, only, and all who follow Paul will ascend to heaven and rule over the earthlings from heaven!!!
If anyone believes M.A.D., they are actually not only accusing Jesus of being an uninformed "Last Word" with no relevant message to them from God, but they are also disbelieving Paul, who taught contradictory to M.A.D and in total agreement to Jesus Christ..

Hbr 1:1,2
¶God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

God has not spoken to us in these last days by "Paul", but by His Son.

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Mat 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.Mat 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Mat 11:13
For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

M.A.D. teaches that Paul did away with the Great Commission, and that is not true; for Paul was born again of the Spirit of regeneration, and was baptized in water -and did baptize in water. Paul even re-baptized Believers in Ephesus -twelve of them who had not heard of the Holy Spirit [of power], who were regenerated in the Holy Spirit of adoption!
Paul evangelized and no one he evangelized was not baptized in water, and yet, Paul did not mainly baptize in water, but those with him did.
Jesus 'baptized' in water, yet He did "not" 'baptize' converts in water, but those with Him did.
M.A.D. teach error about water baptism and the Great Commission and make false statements about what Paul taught.

 

[christianmomof3]

It is.
The secret was so hidden -according to M.A.D., that not even Jesus Christ knew it or preached it! -in their own words!

Their hidden, secret, new gospel replaces the Gospel which Jesus Christ came preaching -so they say! and no one is to obey Jesus Christ's commands -so they say, for Paul was the "last prophet", so they say!

But Jesus said the Law and the prophets were "until John", since then the kingdom is preached and every man [every "in Adam" person] presses in".

Jesus said to His disciples, in John 14, that; "in My Father's house are many dwelling places, I go to prepare you a place" and if I go, I will come again and receive you to myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

But M.A.D. says Jesus is wrong, that Jesus' disciples and Apostles will not be with Him in His Father's House, but will be relegated to earth and will not ascend into heaven to be with Him there!!!!!

M.A.D. teaches that all before Paul will be relegated to earth, only, and all who follow Paul will ascend to heaven and rule over the earthlings from heaven!!!
If anyone believes M.A.D., they are actually not only accusing Jesus of being an uninformed "Last Word" with no relevant message to them from God, but they are also disbelieving Paul, who taught contradictory to M.A.D and in total agreement to Jesus Christ..

Hbr 1:1,2
¶God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

God has not spoken to us in these last days by "Paul", but by His Son.

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Mat 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.Mat 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Mat 11:13
For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

M.A.D. teaches that Paul did away with the Great Commission, and that is not true; for Paul was born again of the Spirit of regeneration, and was baptized in water -and did baptize in water. Paul even re-baptized Believers in Ephesus -twelve of them who had not heard of the Holy Spirit [of power], who were regenerated in the Holy Spirit of adoption!
Paul evangelized and no one he evangelized was not baptized in water, and yet, Paul did not mainly baptize in water, but those with him did.
Jesus 'baptized' in water, yet He did "not" 'baptize' converts in water, but those with Him did.
M.A.D. teach error about water baptism and the Great Commission and make false statements about what Paul taught.

That is interesting.
Ok, so for those of you who believe in the MAD stuff - is this correct? Is this what you believe? Does this accurately explain your SECRET?
Do ya'll think that this BIG SECRET was hidden even from Jesus?
What do you think God's eternal purpose is?
Or is that a BIG MYSTERIOUS SECRET too?
Thank you.