What is Hell?

[MikeK]

I said that the ones who will be in Hell are the ones who don't want to serve God in Heaven. I didn't say that anyone who sins is going to Hell.

I know, and I didn't suggest otherwise.

you are not understanding what I said.

I understand your stated belief that there are more souls in hell than heaven and I restated it for you.

Do you care what Jesus said about it?

:rollseyes:

 

[ALoveDivine]

For me it's simple. God alone will judge, we cannot presume upon the salvation (or lack thereof) of anyone. The best we can do is hold out hope for the salvation of each person who passes on, while not making any kind of assumption or pronouncement either way. God alone is the sovereign judge, and God is abundantly merciful. Let us just hope in that, and work out our own salvation.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

For me it's simple. God alone will judge, we cannot presume upon the salvation (or lack thereof) of anyone. The best we can do is hold out hope for the salvation of each person who passes on, while not making any kind of assumption or pronouncement either way. God alone is the sovereign judge, and God is abundantly merciful. Let us just hope in that, and work out our own salvation.

Acknowledging Jesus' general statement about Hell is not the same as us making a judgment about an individual person's salvation after they have died. And, according to Jesus, generally there will end up being more people in Hell than in Heaven. Not because God is mean but because there are a lot of people who don't want to serve God in Heaven. All of us have sinned, but there's a difference between struggling with sin vs. being proud and committed to sin.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I know, and I didn't suggest otherwise.

I understand your stated belief that there are more souls in hell than heaven and I restated it for you.

It didn't sound like you were restating it. It sounded like you were disagreeing with me while misrepresenting what I said.

We are told that we were made to worship Him and serve Him, yet if your point of view is correct, most of us won't and most of us will fall far short and suffer perpetually. I wonder why He made us this way.

 

[fat wee robin]

I'm terrible sometimes I hope my dad's in Hell!!!

Do you mean permanent or temporary hell ?

 

[MikeK]

[QUOTE="LivingWordUnity, post: 68436241, member: 188273]And, according to Jesus, generally there will end up being more people in Hell than in Heaven. [/QUOTE]

You're putting words into Jesus' mouth. There have been respected theologians who have concluded that His statement there is a command to do our best to love and serve God, and that it is difficult and few will fully give their lives - all their toil, all their currency, all their love - to Christ. That does not mean that Christ said that there will generally be more souls in hell than heaven. I understand that you think you know what Jesus meant and maybe your impression is correct, but I don't think you're in any place to present your impressions as fact. Pope Benedict XVI, a respected Catholic theologian no doubt familiar with Jesus' statement, suggested that perhaps only a few will be sentenced to hell.

You might be interested in Dr Peter Kreft's thoughts on the matter.

http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/hell.htm

 

[fat wee robin]

Judging from how strong the rebellion against God is going—the rise of atheisim, satanism, and "nontheistic Christianity"—and judging from Jesus saying in Matt 7:13-14, "Enter by the narrowgate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few," I believe that there are more people in Hell than there are in Heaven. But this is because we have a choice, and there are many don't want to go to Heaven. Nowadays, a lot of people even say openly that they want to go to Hell or that they wouldn't want to serve God in Heaven. And if someone never wants to go to Heaven the only place for them is Hell.

Yes I think that those who inadvertantly sin and end up in terrible situations ,living often in 'hell' on earth are saveable as they did not deliberately choost to be there ,but those who make a career of what you have described ,I see little hope ;As for whether it is forever ,I think may be not except for a small number .'Hell' is a place from which you cannot be freed except by love of and belief in Jesus Christ ,so inevitably there will be some lost .

 

[Colin]

A Fatima prayer......." O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy. ".....lead ALL souls to heaven .

A Divine Mercy prayer....." For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."......on the WHOLE world .

The Catechism of the Catholic Church......"The Church prays that no one should be lost: "Lord, let me never be parted from you." If it is true that no one can save himself, it is also true that God "desires all men to be saved" (1 Tim 2:4), and that for him "all things are possible" (Mt 19:26). "

 

[LivingWordUnity]

MikeK and Colin,

I recommend this article by Avery Cardinal Dulles: The Population of Hell

Here are some quotes from it:

"As we know from the Gospels, Jesus spoke many times about hell. Throughout his preaching, he holds forth two and only two final possibilities for human existence: the one being everlasting happiness in the presence of God, the other everlasting torment in the absence of God. He describes the fate of the damned under a great variety of metaphors: everlasting fire, outer darkness, tormenting thirst, a gnawing worm, and weeping and gnashing of teeth."

"In the parable of the sheep and the goats, Jesus indicates that some will be condemned. The Son of man says to the goats: 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41). In the Gospel of John, which says comparatively little about hell, Jesus is quoted as saying: 'The hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Father’s] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment' (John 5:28-29)."

"The apostles, understandably concerned, asked: 'Lord, will those who are saved be few?' Without directly answering their question Jesus replied: 'Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and not be able' (Luke 13:23-24). In the parallel passage from Matthew, Jesus says: 'Enter by the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few' (Matthew 7:13-14). In a parable immediately following this exchange, Jesus speaks of those who try to come to the marriage feast, but are told: 'Depart from me, all you workers of iniquity. There you will weep and gnash your teeth' (Luke 13:27-28). In another parable, that of the wedding guest who is cast out for not wearing the proper attire, Jesus declares: 'Many are called, but few are chosen' (Matthew 22:14). Taken in their obvious meaning, passages such as these give the impression that there is a hell, and that many go there; more, in fact, than are saved."

"References to punishment after death in the remainder of the New Testament simply confirm the teaching of the Gospels. In the Book of Acts Paul says that those ordained to eternal life have believed his preaching, whereas those who disbelieved it have judged themselves unworthy of eternal life (Acts 13:46-48). Peter’s First Letter puts the question: 'If the righteous man is scarcely to be saved, where will the impious and sinner appear?' (1 Peter 4:18). The Book of Revelation teaches that there is a fiery pit where Satan and those who follow him will be tormented forever. It states at one point: 'As for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death' (Revelation 21:8)."

"The testimony of Paul is complex. In his First Letter to the Thessalonians he speaks of the coming divine judgment, in which Jesus will inflict vengeance 'upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord' (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10). In his epistle to the Romans Paul says that the impenitent Jews are storing up wrath for themselves on the day of judgment (Romans 2:5). In writing to the Corinthians he distinguishes between those who are being saved by the gospel and those who are perishing because of their failure to accept it (1 Corinthians 1:18). In a variety of texts he gives lists of sins that will exclude people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21; Ephesians 5:3-6). And he tells the Philippians: 'Work out your salvation in fear and trembling' (Philippians 2:12)."

"Some passages in the letters of Paul lend themselves to a more optimistic interpretation, but they can hardly be used to prove that salvation is universal. In Romans 8:19-21 Paul predicts that 'creation itself will be set free from its bondage of decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God,' but the text seems to refer to the world of nature; it does not say that all human beings will achieve the glorious liberty in question. In 1 Corinthians 15:28 Paul speaks of all things being ultimately subjected to Christ, but he does not imply that subjection means salvation. He presumably means that the demonic powers will ultimately be defeated. In Philippians 2:9-10 he predicts that eventually every knee will bow to Christ and every tongue confess him. But this need not mean a confession that proceeds from love. In the Gospels the devils proclaim that Jesus is the Holy One of God, but they are not saved by recognizing the fact."

"Equally unavailing, in my opinion, are appeals to passages that say that God’s plan is to reconcile all things in Christ (Ephesians 1:10; Colossians 1:19-20). Although this is surely God’s intent, He does not override the freedom that enables men and women to resist His holy will. The same may be said of the statement that God 'desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth' (1 Timothy 2:4). Paul is apparently seeking to stimulate the apostolic zeal of missionaries who will bring the saving truth of Christ to all who do not yet believe. The absolute necessity of faith for salvation is a constant theme in the writings of Paul. I see no reason, then, for ranking Paul among the universalists."

"The constant teaching of the Catholic Church supports the idea that there are two classes: the saved and the damned. Three general councils of the Church (Lyons I, 1245; Lyons II, 1274; and Florence, 1439) and Pope Benedict XII’s bull Benedictus Deus (1336) have taught that everyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to suffer the eternal punishments of hell. This belief has perdured without question in the Catholic Church to this day, and is repeated almost verbatim in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC §1022, 1035). Several local councils in the Middle Ages, without apparently intending to define the point, state in passing that some have actually died in a state of sin and been punished by eternal damnation."

"The relative numbers of the elect and the damned are not treated in any Church documents, but have been a subject of discussion among theologians. Among the Greek Fathers, Irenaeus, Basil, and Cyril of Jerusalem are typical in interpreting passages such as Matthew 22:14 as meaning that the majority will be consigned to hell. St. John Chrysostom, an outstanding doctor of the Eastern tradition, was particularly pessimistic: 'Among thousands of people there are not a hundred who will arrive at their salvation, and I am not even certain of that number, so much perversity is there among the young and so much negligence among the old.'"

"Augustine may be taken as representative of the Western Fathers. In his controversy with the Donatist Cresconius, Augustine draws upon Matthew and the Book of Revelation to prove that the number of the elect is large, but he grants that their number is exceeded by that of the lost. In Book 21 of his City of God he rebuts first the idea that all human beings are saved, then that all the baptized are saved, then that all baptized Catholics are saved, and finally that all baptized Catholics who persevere in the faith are saved. He seems to limit salvation to baptized believers who refrain from serious sin or who, after sinning, repent and are reconciled with God."

 

[Mograce2U]

where there worm deith not, and thefire is not quenched. Mark 9:44

I always like reading Mark because he keeps it short and sweet. And he uses a biblical reference that his hearers would have been familiar with: Isa 66:24. So all we need do is understand what this fire and the worm are referring to. A fire that is never quenched is a death that will never end. And the worm that dies not is the one that will eternally find flesh to feed upon. That is the lake of fire that every man is destined to at birth unless he comes to faith in Christ.

 

[MikeK]

MikeK and Colin,

I recommend this article by Avery Cardinal Dulles: The Population of Hell

Here are some quotes from it:

"As we know from the Gospels, Jesus spoke many times about hell. Throughout his preaching, he holds forth two and only two final possibilities for human existence: the one being everlasting happiness in the presence of God, the other everlasting torment in the absence of God. He describes the fate of the damned under a great variety of metaphors: everlasting fire, outer darkness, tormenting thirst, a gnawing worm, and weeping and gnashing of teeth."

"In the parable of the sheep and the goats, Jesus indicates that some will be condemned. The Son of man says to the goats: 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41). In the Gospel of John, which says comparatively little about hell, Jesus is quoted as saying: 'The hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Father’s] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment' (John 5:28-29)."

"The apostles, understandably concerned, asked: 'Lord, will those who are saved be few?' Without directly answering their question Jesus replied: 'Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and not be able' (Luke 13:23-24). In the parallel passage from Matthew, Jesus says: 'Enter by the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few' (Matthew 7:13-14). In a parable immediately following this exchange, Jesus speaks of those who try to come to the marriage feast, but are told: 'Depart from me, all you workers of iniquity. There you will weep and gnash your teeth' (Luke 13:27-28). In another parable, that of the wedding guest who is cast out for not wearing the proper attire, Jesus declares: 'Many are called, but few are chosen' (Matthew 22:14). Taken in their obvious meaning, passages such as these give the impression that there is a hell, and that many go there; more, in fact, than are saved."

"References to punishment after death in the remainder of the New Testament simply confirm the teaching of the Gospels. In the Book of Acts Paul says that those ordained to eternal life have believed his preaching, whereas those who disbelieved it have judged themselves unworthy of eternal life (Acts 13:46-48). Peter’s First Letter puts the question: 'If the righteous man is scarcely to be saved, where will the impious and sinner appear?' (1 Peter 4:18). The Book of Revelation teaches that there is a fiery pit where Satan and those who follow him will be tormented forever. It states at one point: 'As for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death' (Revelation 21:8)."

"The testimony of Paul is complex. In his First Letter to the Thessalonians he speaks of the coming divine judgment, in which Jesus will inflict vengeance 'upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord' (1 Thessalonians 1:9-10). In his epistle to the Romans Paul says that the impenitent Jews are storing up wrath for themselves on the day of judgment (Romans 2:5). In writing to the Corinthians he distinguishes between those who are being saved by the gospel and those who are perishing because of their failure to accept it (1 Corinthians 1:18). In a variety of texts he gives lists of sins that will exclude people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21; Ephesians 5:3-6). And he tells the Philippians: 'Work out your salvation in fear and trembling' (Philippians 2:12)."

"Some passages in the letters of Paul lend themselves to a more optimistic interpretation, but they can hardly be used to prove that salvation is universal. In Romans 8:19-21 Paul predicts that 'creation itself will be set free from its bondage of decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God,' but the text seems to refer to the world of nature; it does not say that all human beings will achieve the glorious liberty in question. In 1 Corinthians 15:28 Paul speaks of all things being ultimately subjected to Christ, but he does not imply that subjection means salvation. He presumably means that the demonic powers will ultimately be defeated. In Philippians 2:9-10 he predicts that eventually every knee will bow to Christ and every tongue confess him. But this need not mean a confession that proceeds from love. In the Gospels the devils proclaim that Jesus is the Holy One of God, but they are not saved by recognizing the fact."

"Equally unavailing, in my opinion, are appeals to passages that say that God’s plan is to reconcile all things in Christ (Ephesians 1:10; Colossians 1:19-20). Although this is surely God’s intent, He does not override the freedom that enables men and women to resist His holy will. The same may be said of the statement that God 'desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth' (1 Timothy 2:4). Paul is apparently seeking to stimulate the apostolic zeal of missionaries who will bring the saving truth of Christ to all who do not yet believe. The absolute necessity of faith for salvation is a constant theme in the writings of Paul. I see no reason, then, for ranking Paul among the universalists."

"The constant teaching of the Catholic Church supports the idea that there are two classes: the saved and the damned. Three general councils of the Church (Lyons I, 1245; Lyons II, 1274; and Florence, 1439) and Pope Benedict XII’s bull Benedictus Deus (1336) have taught that everyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to suffer the eternal punishments of hell. This belief has perdured without question in the Catholic Church to this day, and is repeated almost verbatim in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC §1022, 1035). Several local councils in the Middle Ages, without apparently intending to define the point, state in passing that some have actually died in a state of sin and been punished by eternal damnation."

"The relative numbers of the elect and the damned are not treated in any Church documents, but have been a subject of discussion among theologians. Among the Greek Fathers, Irenaeus, Basil, and Cyril of Jerusalem are typical in interpreting passages such as Matthew 22:14 as meaning that the majority will be consigned to hell. St. John Chrysostom, an outstanding doctor of the Eastern tradition, was particularly pessimistic: 'Among thousands of people there are not a hundred who will arrive at their salvation, and I am not even certain of that number, so much perversity is there among the young and so much negligence among the old.'"

"Augustine may be taken as representative of the Western Fathers. In his controversy with the Donatist Cresconius, Augustine draws upon Matthew and the Book of Revelation to prove that the number of the elect is large, but he grants that their number is exceeded by that of the lost. In Book 21 of his City of God he rebuts first the idea that all human beings are saved, then that all the baptized are saved, then that all baptized Catholics are saved, and finally that all baptized Catholics who persevere in the faith are saved. He seems to limit salvation to baptized believers who refrain from serious sin or who, after sinning, repent and are reconciled with God."

Note that the Cardinal stops short of claiming what you believe, that more are in hell than heaven. Why should people read what you spam when you fail to directly reply to questions asked of you or comment on writings you disagree with? It makes your witness difficult to take seriously.

 

[RileyG]

Judging from how strong the rebellion against God is going—the rise of atheisim, satanism, and "nontheistic Christianity"—and judging from Jesus saying in Matt 7:13-14, "Enter by the narrowgate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few," I believe that there are more people in Hell than there are in Heaven. But this is because we have a choice, and there are many don't want to go to Heaven. Nowadays, a lot of people even say openly that they want to go to Hell or that they wouldn't want to serve God in Heaven. And if someone never wants to go to Heaven the only place for them is Hell.

That is very true LWU. However, it is my hope and belief relatively few are damned. Only God truly knows at the end of their lives if they repent or not.

Let us ALWAYS remember hell is FREELY chosen. One MUST choose to reject God to go there. It does NOT happen by accident. I do agree, in this present age, many souls are unfortunately on the path of eternal damnation.

 

[RileyG]

Bottom line: We do NOT know WHO is in hell. Not even Adolf Hitler, or Judas Iscariot.

That being said, we should NEVER EVER wish hell on anyone. To be separated from God for eternity, quite literally, is the most painful thing a human can ever experience.

We should *ALWAYS* pray for the faithful departed in HOPE they will be admitted to paradise. It's an act of charity.

Just my two cents.

As I stated before, it is my HOPE that relatively few are damned; however, I also believe there are probably more in hell than we know, considering the fact that billions and billions of people are dead.

 

[sahjimira]

What about the "second death" wouldn't that mean total annihilation?

 

[Colin]

We come across the word "hell" a lot in the English language , but is the word always referring to the same thing ?

How many times is "hell" mentioned in the Bible?

Some interesting figures from just a few versions.....

Authorized King James Version.....54 times

New King James Version.....32 times

New International Version.....13 times

Revised Standard Version.....13 times

New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE) Roman Catholic.....0

New American Bible (1970).....0

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Note that the Cardinal stops short of claiming what you believe, that more are in hell than heaven. Why should people read what you spam when you fail to directly reply to questions asked of you or comment on writings you disagree with? It makes your witness difficult to take seriously.

Your show of contempt for the article by calling it "spam" suggests you don't believe that it agrees with your point of view.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

We come across the word "hell" a lot in the English language , but is the word always referring to the same thing ?

How many times is "hell" mentioned in the Bible?

Some interesting figures from just a few versions.....

Authorized King James Version.....54 times

New King James Version.....32 times

New International Version.....13 times

Revised Standard Version.....13 times

New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE) Roman Catholic.....0

New American Bible (1970).....0

There are other words that are synonyms for the word "Hell," so just because some translations of the Bible use that word less or even not at all doesn't mean that it isn't in there. For example, the word "Gehenna" means the same thing as the word "Hell."

See the following on it from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

The Latin infernus (inferum, inferi), the Greek Hades, and the Hebrew sheol correspond to the word hell. Infernus is derived from the root in; hence it designates hell as a place within and below the earth. Haides, formed from the root fid, to see, and a privative, denotes an invisible, hidden, and dark place; thus it is similar to the term hell. The derivation of sheol is doubtful. It is generally supposed to come from the Hebrew root meaning, "to be sunk in, to be hollow"; accordingly it denotes a cave or a place under the earth. In the Old Testament (Septuagint hades; Vulgate infernus) sheol is used quite in general to designate the kingdom of the dead, of the good (Genesis 37:35) as well as of the bad (Numbers 16:30); it means hell in the strict sense of the term, as well as the limbo of the Fathers. But, as the limbo of the Fathers ended at the time of Christ's Ascension, hades (Vulgate infernus) in the New Testament always designates the hell of the damned. Since Christ's Ascension the just no longer go down to the lower world, but they dwell in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:1). However, in the New Testament the term Gehenna is used more frequently in preference to hades, as a name for the place of punishment of the damned. Gehenna is the Hebrew gê-hinnom (Nehemiah 11:30), or the longer form gê-ben-hinnom (Joshua 15:8), and gê-benê-hinnom (2 Kings 23:10) "valley of the sons of Hinnom". Hinnom seems to be the name of a person not otherwise known. The Valley of Hinnom is south of Jerusalem and is now called Wadi er-rababi. It was notorious as the scene, in earlier days, of the horrible worship of Moloch. For this reason it was defiled by Josias (2 Kings 23:10), cursed by Jeremias (Jeremiah 7:31-33), and held in abomination by the Jews, who, accordingly, used the name of this valley to designate the abode of the damned (Targ. Jon., Gen., iii, 24; Henoch, c. xxvi). And Christ adopted this usage of the term. Besides Hades and Gehenna, we find in the New Testament many other names for the abode of the damned. It is called "lower hell" (Vulgate tartarus) (2 Peter 2:4), "abyss" (Luke 8:31 and elsewhere), "place of torments" (Luke 16:28), "pool of fire" (Revelation 19:20 and elsewhere), "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:42, 50), "unquenchable fire" (Matthew 3:12, and elsewhere), "everlasting fire" (Matthew 18:8; 25:41; Jude 7), "exterior darkness" (Matthew 7:12; 22:13; 25:30), "mist" or "storm of darkness" (2 Peter 2:17; Jude 13). The state of the damned is called "destruction" (apoleia, Philippians 3:19 and elsewhere), "perdition" (olethros, 1 Timothy 6:9), "eternal destruction" (olethros aionios, 2 Thessalonians 1:9), "corruption" (phthora, Galatians 6:8), "death" (Romans 6:21), "second death" (Revelation 2:11 and elsewhere).

(Read more)

And here are the places that the word "Gehenna" appears in the New Testament of the New American Bible:

"But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, 'Raqa,' will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, 'You fool,' will be liable to fiery Gehenna." - Matthew 5:22

"If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body thrown into Gehenna." - Matthew 5:29

"And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into Gehenna." - Matthew 5:30

"And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." - Matthew 10:28

"And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna." - Matthew 18:9

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You traverse sea and land to make one convert, and when that happens you make him a child of Gehenna twice as much as yourselves." - Matthew 23:15

"You serpents, you brood of vipers, how can you flee from the judgment of Gehenna?" - Matthew 23:33

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than with two hands to go into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire." - Mark 9:43

"And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life crippled than with two feet to be thrown into Gehenna." - Mark 9:45

"And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. Better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into Gehenna, where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." - Mark 9:47-48

"I shall show you whom to fear. Be afraid of the one who after killing has the power to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, be afraid of that one." - Luke 12:5

"The tongue is also a fire. It exists among our members as a world of malice, defiling the whole body and setting the entire course of our lives on fire, itself set on fire by Gehenna." - James 3:6

 

[com7fy8]

"For our God is a consuming fire." (Hebrews 12:29)

Fire can do you good or it can burn you, depending on your nature and how you relate with it.

I think one of the main things about hell will be the character of the people who are there. There now are very nasty and conceited people, and their nature makes them so they can suffer and struggle about what is good. How they are will have a lot to do with how the "fire" will effect them.

Satan was in Heaven, itself; and because of how Satan was, he was not satisfied even with Heaven. Ones sinful are like this; so they could suffer burning, right in Heaven . . . because of their anti-love nature.

And what is one of the main ways or the only way to control an evil person? Not with charming and negotiating and bribing, but fire will keep an evil person in line. So, the fire possibly is not only for tormenting and punishing people, but for managing them maybe the only way that can make them behave.

 

[Rhamiel]

What about the "second death" wouldn't that mean total annihilation?

well many places in the Bible we hear about those who are spiritually dead
before a person is born again, they are described as spiritually dead
but that does not mean they are totally annihilated... I mean they clearly exist
but yet the Bible still describes them as "dead"

 

[MikeK]

Your show of contempt for the article by calling it "spam" suggests you don't believe that it agrees with your point of view.

I don't have contempt for the article at all because I read it in the context of the entirety of Catholic teaching on the matter and I know what it is saying and more importantly, what it is not saying. It does not state that there will be more souls in hell than in heaven. If it were a fact that God ordained that most sould am would go to hell and communicated His will to us as such, it would be evil to pray that all or most souls be saved. Clearly, there is a long tradition in the Church of praying that all or most be saved, and this is evidence that the Church does not believe that there is sufficient evidence to conclude that most will meet eternal torture. You can have that personal belief if you like.

Did you read Dr Kreft's thoughts on the matter?

From my own personal point of view, we know that Christ is victorious over Satan. If only a few are saved and the majority are tortured by Satan for eternity, that doesn't seem like much of a victory for the almighty. There are likely some souls in hell. I don't believe it can be concluded that most are.

Padre Pio: "I believe that not a great number of souls go to hell. God loves us so much. He formed us at his image. God loves us beyond understanding. And it is my belief that when we have passed from the consciousness of the world, when we appear to be dead, God, before He judges us, will give us a chance to see and understand what sin really is. And if we understand it properly, how could we fail to repent?"