What is hell?

[HypoTypoSis]

Many of us are thinking the same thing about you...

You see, that was where I was (where you are now) for decades. then The Lord opened my eyes--and my mind.

 

[CooL_Genesis]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. In not all places does judgment carry the retibutional definition but also there are places it means recompense as in rewards.

So, you're saying that here in John 5:21-29 it means that damnation = no reward??? That when the Bible says that "some will be resurrected to damnation" that this actually means they'll be rewarded to a lesser degree or no reward at all? Never, and I mean never, have I heard, in ANY language, the word DAMNATION and the word REWARD as being synonymous with one another. They are complete opposites. You've thrown that whole passage of scripture completely out of context.

Jesus makes it clear here that He has the power to resurrect all of the dead and not only those who believe in Him but those who have done evil. Jesus is going to judge the world, make no mistake of that. He says it in His very words to us in John and other books of the Bible, like the book of Revelation. If He had simply said that he will resurrect the dead in Him to Life, that would be one thing, but He didn't stop there as you suppose and indicate. He said that everyone would hear His voice... all!

Jesus says in John 5:21-29:

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead (no mention here of the saved or unsaved), and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will (no mention here of the saved or unsaved either). The Lord plainly states that He will resurrect whomever He will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (Jesus has the power to do so in the resurrection as ALL power for this has been given to Him by the Father)
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation (talking about those that have heard, repented and believed on the Lord as their Savior); but is passed from death unto life (as Jesus was... he was physically dead, the grave could not hold him, he was physically resurrected).
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is (present tense), when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God (the spiritually dead that receive the call from the Lord): and they that hear shall live (those that "hear" will be saved and pass from death unto life at the resurrection of our physical bodies).
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself (all that have been re-born in Christ Jesus, even though still physically alive, have eternal life through Him after their physical death);
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment (again, the judgement is Jesus's to fulfill as given to Him by the Father) also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming (the resurrection of ALL of the physically dead, described here and in Revelation), in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (no mention of saved or unsaved, it says ALL and in the context it means ALL bodies that are physically in the grave) The physical body of the believer would be applied here as well as the physical body of the non-believer. The spiritual body of the non-believer is talked about in Revelation as being in a constant state of death until this resurrection. However, we know from Paul's teachings that to be absent from the body, for the believer, is to be at home with the Lord. This was also indicated by the repentent thief on the cross when Jesus said, "Today, you will be with me in Paradise."
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good (the believers), unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil (non-believers), unto the resurrection of damnation.

You're right when Jesus said that He didn't come into the world to judge men, however that was the first time around. When He returns, He will judge the world! He says, again, that the power to resurrect and judge has been given to Him by the Father. I can't understand how you're missing this very important passage of scripture in John 5. I can't understand how something so simply spelled out, when he speaks of resurrecting the dead and judging those who have not believed and kept His commandments, eludes you.

Because of Paul's teachings, I believe that when we have been saved and we die, we are instantly with the Lord in some form. Likewise, I believe that those who aren't saved and die are seperated from the Lord. The Bible says that the Lord is sitting on His throne at the right hand of the Father. So, I believe exactly what the Bible says and that we'll be there in His presence. The resurrection for our physical bodies comes at the same time as the resurrection for everyone elses. The resurrection of everyone's bodies comes at the day of judgement described in Revelation and other various books of the Bible. This resurrection involves the re-uniting of body and soul. This is why there is a "second death" after this resurrection. Those who have not been re-born in Christ will be resurrected only to be sentenced to eternal punishment, which the Lord is just to do!

-Genesis

 

[86k10]

I've seen Hypo quote John 11:25 a few times, that speaks of the rapture. I'm sure he'll disagree with me on that one, and I know i'll get a real lecture over this one, hell and the lake of fire are 2 different places.

 

[holdon]

So, you're saying that here in John 5:21-29 it means that damnation = no reward??? That when the Bible says that "some will be resurrected to damnation" that this actually means they'll be rewarded to a lesser degree or no reward at all? Never, and I mean never, have I heard, in ANY language, the word DAMNATION and the word REWARD as being synonymous with one another. They are complete opposites. You've thrown that whole passage of scripture completely out of context.

Jesus makes it clear here that He has the power to resurrect all of the dead and not only those who believe in Him but those who have done evil. Jesus is going to judge the world, make no mistake of that. He says it in His very words to us in John and other books of the Bible, like the book of Revelation. If He had simply said that he will resurrect the dead in Him to Life, that would be one thing, but He didn't stop there as you suppose and indicate. He said that everyone would hear His voice... all!

Jesus says in John 5:21-29:

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead (no mention here of the saved or unsaved), and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will (no mention here of the saved or unsaved either). The Lord plainly states that He will resurrect whomever He will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (Jesus has the power to do so in the resurrection as ALL power for this has been given to Him by the Father)
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation (talking about those that have heard, repented and believed on the Lord as their Savior); but is passed from death unto life (as Jesus was... he was physically dead, the grave could not hold him, he was physically resurrected).
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is (present tense), when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God (the spiritually dead that receive the call from the Lord): and they that hear shall live (those that "hear" will be saved and pass from death unto life at the resurrection of our physical bodies).
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself (all that have been re-born in Christ Jesus, even though still physically alive, have eternal life through Him after their physical death);
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment (again, the judgement is Jesus's to fulfill as given to Him by the Father) also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming (the resurrection of ALL of the physically dead, described here and in Revelation), in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (no mention of saved or unsaved, it says ALL and in the context it means ALL bodies that are physically in the grave) The physical body of the believer would be applied here as well as the physical body of the non-believer. The spiritual body of the non-believer is talked about in Revelation as being in a constant state of death until this resurrection. However, we know from Paul's teachings that to be absent from the body, for the believer, is to be at home with the Lord. This was also indicated by the repentent thief on the cross when Jesus said, "Today, you will be with me in Paradise."
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good (the believers), unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil (non-believers), unto the resurrection of damnation.

You're right when Jesus said that He didn't come into the world to judge men, however that was the first time around. When He returns, He will judge the world! He says, again, that the power to resurrect and judge has been given to Him by the Father. I can't understand how you're missing this very important passage of scripture in John 5. I can't understand how something so simply spelled out, when he speaks of resurrecting the dead and judging those who have not believed and kept His commandments, eludes you.

Because of Paul's teachings, I believe that when we have been saved and we die, we are instantly with the Lord in some form. Likewise, I believe that those who aren't saved and die are seperated from the Lord. The Bible says that the Lord is sitting on His throne at the right hand of the Father. So, I believe exactly what the Bible says and that we'll be there in His presence. The resurrection for our physical bodies comes at the same time as the resurrection for everyone elses. The resurrection of everyone's bodies comes at the day of judgement described in Revelation and other various books of the Bible. This resurrection involves the re-uniting of body and soul. This is why there is a "second death" after this resurrection. Those who have not been re-born in Christ will be resurrected only to be sentenced to eternal punishment, which the Lord is just to do!

-Genesis

HypoTyposis is one who doesn't believe in the immortality of the soul. The soul of the unregenerate would simply cease to exist. That doctrine is called "annihilationism". According to the rules, this shouldn't be discussed here as it is an aberrant doctrine. The moderators have failed to enforce the rules on this one.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

So, you're saying that...[]...?

Reviewing the thread it will be seen there have been numerous passages that contain 'judgment'. Some mean retribution, others mean recompense.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

hell and the lake of fire are 2 different places.

That's correct. One is the grave and the other is the destruction of creation.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

the immortality of the soul.

The bible does not teach the soul (ie man) is immortal.

The bible does not teach man HAS a soul but that he IS a soul:

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became A living soul.

ONLY God is immortal:

1 Timothy 6:13-16, "...God...[]...Who ONLY hath immortality"

Through Him we, too, shall enjoy immortality. But this is not something the unsaved have nor will ever have.

The belief that the unsaved have immortal souls is the doctrine of Universalism and is anathema to scripture.

 

[86k10]

then what according to your theory genius happens when we die if we are just a soul. I can't wait for the answer to this one. But then again I don't need an answer. We are mortal bodies with an immortal soul. When we die our mortal body goes into the ground and our sould either goes to eternal paradise or eternal suffring in hell there is no other option. You said earlier that God opened your eyes to all this stuff, are you sure it wasn't someone hit you upside the head with a ballbat.

 

[mont974x4]

immortal means incorruptable, will not degenerate....when we are resurrected to eternal life we will receive a new incorruptible body...as one of the verses I posted earlier states.

While I don't think unbelievers will have a glorified body like ours at that time I don't believe there bodies (when resurrected to eternal damnation) will degenerate or break down. That would be annihalation and an end of their existence...and against eternal damnation.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

then what according to your theory genius happens when we die if we are just a soul. I can't wait for the answer to this one.

Dear Genius,
Those in Christ are spirit.
Not 'have' a spirit, but 'are' spirit.
Those same spirits will awaken when their Master returns and calls to them.

John 10:27, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"

toodooloo!

HypoTypoSis

 

[CooL_Genesis]

1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

1 Corinthians 15:44

This has, if memory serves, previously been posted. The surrounding verses are quite relevent to the context so the entirety is posted below:


1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

1 Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[mont974x4]

Hypo, what do you think happens to the unbeleiver?

 

[HypoTypoSis]

what do you think happens to the unbeleiver?

You know, that really is a completely different issue from the thread's, "What is hell" topic.

Perhaps, if you truly wish to discuss that issue, instead you should open a new thread just for that purpose and allow everyone to post the scriptures they feel pertinently address your question.

 

[mont974x4]

It is pertinent, since we are discussiing hell we should discuss it fully.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

 

[JPPT1974]

Our bodies on earth are destroyed
While our souls are forever in heaven
If we believe and accept Christ as the
Savior & the Lord of our hearts and lives.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

The spirit God creates within each of us at salvation is, imo, what most people erroneously refer to as their 'soul' since the term 'a living soul' rightfully refers to 'a man' who, without God's breath of life has no life; hence, the baby spirit within us that grows and matures is 'a life' separate and apart from this sinful body of flesh.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

"soul" = nephesh = is used of the lower animals four times before it is used of man; and out of the first thirteen times in Genesis, it is used ten times of the lower animals.

Unsaved are not spirit, their entire life force is solely that of God's breath of life lent them and when God calls His breath of life back to Him there is no life left in them.

Man is a member of the natural order of things; man, animals, fish, fowl, plants, etc and when God calls His breath of life back to Him that had been 'loaned' to any member of the natural order there remains in them no life force whatever. See Genesis 2:7,

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became A living soul."

The saved also have God's breath of life sustaining this body of sin that 'dying it dies' and God also calls His breath of life back from their physical bodies as well. Natural order is natural order.

The difference is that at salvation God has granted each a spirit thus we are spirit just as God is spirit and where He is we are in Jesus as Jesus is in the Father and we in the Father and Jesus in each of us. We are one. God is not "A" spirit, rather God IS spirit.

John 17:21-24, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world."

 

[CooL_Genesis]

How do you account for evil spirits then? The Bible speaks of encounters with evil spirits. What happens to those? Why should we try the spirits if only the saved have a spirit? There would be no need to then, wouldn't you say?